From all I hear, this is the be-all and end-all of dove shooting. The Argentine economy is supposed to be in the dumps and American money should go a long way -- but apparently the guys offering the hunts on various internet sites haven't heard about this because their prices are mostly pretty steep. Who's hunted there and what would be your recommendations. (Booking agents are welcome to email me with specifics.)

I hunted Argentina last February. It was a fantastic experience. Shooting was great, we were treated like royality. I did a complete write-up of my trip on my web site if you would care to read it (www.45throatdoctor.com).

The booking agent I used is www.argentinawildwings.com I would definetely go back and hunt with this outfit.

It is the best there is and likely ever will be, it really would be impossible for it to be any better, only different, as you can shoot nearly continuously in certain spots if you and your gun can stand it.

There are various levels of pricing. Used to be we would hunt for 3 1/2 or 4 days including lodging, airfare from the states etc. for about $2500, NOT INCLUDING SHELLS, which is a major expense. However, airfares are lower and competition has driven some of the prices down. I've got a flyer in front of me from Fin&Feathers Safaris (who I have not used but seem ok) for June-Nov 03 hunts for $1050 for 2 1/2 hunting days, $1295 for 3 1/2 days of hunting with the first 1000 shells provided "free" (worth $320 at local prices). They don't supply hard liquor, which some do, and they recommend tipping the bird boys $25/boy/day which is ridiculously high in my opinion. They sell shells for $8 a box, some are $10 and the difference adds up when you are shooting 40 boxes or more a day. But these prices are really dirt cheap and I would consider them.

I have used Trek many times in the past and they have the connections to put on a good hunt, but their prices are mid-level these days, used to be some of the cheapest. Without checking their current pricing, Frontiers has always been high end, but they do run a first class operation.

Thanks, Fatcat and Tarheel.

Sounds like a person might make the trip for damages of around $2500 or so, depending on the various "extras" that you might want.

Airfare out of Houston runs around $900 as best I can tell for the buy-it-in-advance-and-eat-it-if-you-don't-use-it type tickets. A thousand or so to the outfitter for hunting-meals-lodging and another $500 for shells sounds like the minimum expenditure one could expect. I'm thinking in terms of going during the South American mid-winter. I would assume that the moderate climate in the Cordoba region would both produce doves and be pleasant enough?

Unless you are a model of restraint, and unless you are counting a 1000 free shells in your $500 figure you don't have a prayer of only shooting 50 @$10 or 63 @$8 boxes of shells down there in 3 or more days of shooting. Since a lot of them charge $10/box that would be less that 500 shells a day. Forget it, I'm an old hand, and just shoot for the fun of it, and I RESTRICT myself to only 500 shells a session, morning and evening. Figure a 1000 shells a day as a rock bottom minimum. If you go hog wild it is EASY to shoot 2000 shells or more a day.

Now is their mid-winter and it is normally very pleasant, the farther North you hunt the hotter. But mostly you can expect cool evenings and warmer afternoons. 40 to 60 at night, 75 to 90 in day, again, depending on how far North you are.

Are those argentinian doves more sexies than mines??

If you want you can send me an e-mail and we talk about it.

LG

Thanks, Lorenzo, I've sent you an email.

Gato: I suspect you're right about my underestimation of shells.

I know it's not practical to bring very many shells with you, but I was wondering: My favorite dove gun is a 28 gauge O/U. The 28 gauge shells are likely to be somewhat scarce in S.A., and since the 28's are a bit lighter and more compact than the larger gauges, is it possible (both physically and legally) to bring 20 or so boxes (what us "old timers" call a case) with you?

The short answer to bringing shells is no, you are restricted to 5 kgs in shells on most (maybe all, now?) airlines. Aerolineas Argentinas used to let you bring in a case or two as checked luggage, but they stopped that practice years ago as far as I know, and, for that matter, I am not sure they are even still in business, American was going to buy them for a while, but American is on the ropes too now.

28 ga shells are readily available in Argentina, you just have to tell the outfitter in advance and they may charge a bit more for them. I shot a 28 down there some, but since I prefer long, tough shots I wasn't "ate" up with doing it. The earred dove is very similar to our mourning dove, except it doesn't have the long tail, and maybe a fraction tougher to bring down.

Stonecreek and Gatogordo: Aerol�neas Argentinas is pretty much alive and kicking. 28 gauge shells are very common around here and you don�t need to bring a case, but I feel a 28 is too light for the type of shooting we have. Doves fly fast and high sometimes. Now we have 11� Celsius, this morning the temperature dropped to 3� Celsius, which means under 0� in some areas. Bring warm clothing if you come now.
About pricing, mail me and I�ll put you in touch with some good outfitters.
Regards

I agreed 100 % with nainital about using enough gun for our doves but not about hunting there maybe those doves from the other side of the river are sexiest but mines are much more cute

Seriously, I think nainital is wright, sometimes they come high and a semiauto in 12 gauge is the perfect gun (for me), your 28 will do fine with the partdriges.

You will not go wrong with any of both countries, I must confess that I love Argentina, specially their beatiful women

Good Luck
LG

Lorenzo,

They have some beauties on both sides of the Rio Plata. But they cost more in Buenos Aires.

Did Richard eat any minnows?

I just had a fabulous dove shoot in Uruguay a few days ago .. I wrote it up in 'Hunting Around the World' .. or whatever that other forum on Accuratereloadings is called .. One more option....

Gatogordo,

Lorenzo showed me that restaurant on the way back to the airport ... We were sorta rushed for time .. so will have to try it next time .. Minnows, huh ?... What choke do you normally use on doves ??? And what shotgun ??? My questions are better late than never .... Also, our cook in Dolores was one of the most beautiful women that I have ever seen .. If there are some women close to that in Argentina .. I was a fool just to stay in the airport !!!

Richard:

I shoot a 12 ga Winchester 101 with screw in chokes. I do about 90% of all my wing shooting with IC and IM in them. If I am in a really long range situation on doves I step up to either M/IM or IM/F but I am talking most shots in excess of 40 yards. While you certainly don't kill as many, I like the tougher shooting.

Or, at least I thought I did, just got back from South Africa a couple of months back and shot what are undoubtedly some of the toughest birds I've ever seen as far as shooting difficulty goes. This was outside of Blomfontein, and was rock pigeons coming downhill, downwind, into a sunflower field. They would come in flocks from 10 to 20, sometimes more, sometimes less, about 3 feet above the ground, and when you shot the first one, if you shot the first one or, more likely shot at it, they would all flair and you had to be EXTREMELY quick to even get a second shot off, much less hit one. The first day I thought I had no shot in my shells, but after that I got a little better on them and I am not a bad shot. Rudy Etchen used to say that the wood pigeons in England were the toughest he had ever seen, maybe so, but I honestly think it would be nearly impossible for them to be any tougher than these shots.

If I�m remembering well, the fish quoted were not minnows but young "pejerreyes" or "cornalitos". The tougher shooting I ever saw anywhere was at La Pampa Province (and I have shot live pigeon in tournaments). Before going boar hunting, we used to stand in the open and shoot incoming doves. It should be noted that there is a constant wind of at least 20 miles and the birds fly with it, fast and furious over us for about an hour before sundown. To diminish the number of bagged doves, they zigzagged when we shot. In such conditions, a box of shells only produced about 8 doves.

I like the idea of using an over and under, now that you mention it ... For one thing, a case of shells would last a bit longer ... And when I break open the gun and stand around .. surely the dove hunting groupies would have to notice me !!! And if I decided to go to Oz or some such place .. perhaps the customs dudes might not be too quick to toss my sorry ass in jail for showing up with a $1,500 autoloading Benelli ??? Being born wishy washy though ... I do like to empty a 5 shot gun at wildly flaring doves occasionally ... How do the French say, 'Joy of living ?'''''

Actually, unless you have a loader, you can shoot an O/U about as fast as a semi-auto, over an extended period of time. For instance, not that I could stand it today, back then I was younger and had been shooting a LOT of competitive trap so my shoulder was toughened up, I shot 4000 shells the first day I ever stepped into an Argentine dove field. It was incredible and due to the terrain some of the more memorable shooting I've ever done, part of the time, before or since.

There was a high bluff bank, maybe 150 feet above a small river or a big creek and the doves would fly right above the water. Every shot you had perfect feedback on your lead, etc. It was really neat.

Gatogordo: just out of curiosity, may I ask where did you hunt these doves?. I mean where in Cordoba Province.
Regards

Nainital:

I'm terrible on names and that was nearly 20 years ago, we were staying in the town right on the river, and I'd have to look at a map to figure out which town it was. The hunt was on a private ranch, obviously and I don't have a clue where it was. We were one of, if not the first Americans to ever hunt that particular area.

Now that I let it rest a bit, I think I remember it being Parana on the Parana River if that seems reasonable.

[ 08-09-2003, 06:37: Message edited by: Gatogordo ]

Gato Gordo,
You must spend most of your time traveling. 20 years ago in Parana, Entre Rios province, you were surely one of the first Americans to shoot that area for dove.

JohnAir:

Well, I used to get around a bit, the second time for marriage and the first time for kids slowed that to a crawl. Now that the kids are getting a little older I can sneak off every now and then.

Actually we were supposedly the first Americans to hunt in that particular area (whether we were I have no way of knowing), and since my hunting buddy and I arrived a couple of days ahead of the main group (we had been hunting geese in Patagonia and had the option of spending two or three days waiting in BA......ummmmm, "viewing" the beautiful women, or going hunting....since both my partner and I knew how to view beautiful women, it was an easy choice, so he and I shot the doves by ourselves for a couple of days)and, judging by the bird "boys" we had, it was probably true. They didn't have a clue what to do and could not fathom why anyone would want to waste so much money shooting such little birds.

Couple of funny stories came out of the trip. I speak, or at least spoke, half way conversational Spanish, and on the way out there, I was talking to the segundo in Spanish. I had never hunted doves in Argentina, so I asked him it there were a lot of doves. "Si, Senor, we poisoned the roost the other night and think we killed about 2 million." All in Spanish, of course. "Dos millones!" I cried in dismay. "There won't be any doves left." He laughed and said, "Not to worry, senor, hay muchas palomas (there are a lot of doves). We got to this sunflower field in the dark, set up as it got light and when I shot the first time, the field got up. They nearly blackened the sky. It was awesome.

I shot until I had to take a break about 10 AM, not sure how many shots that was, but at least 1500, I shot 4000 that day. I had been standing on a fenceline in a different spot, but with the creek I mentioned in a post above behind me. At this spot, it was not a bluff bank, but had terraces dropping down to the water level which wasn't but maybe 50 feet from field level. My bird "boys", one of whom was about 60 and the other his son about 40, were conspicuous by their lack of bird picking up activity and NEVER went behind me into the brush on the creek bank to pick up some of the hundreds of doves that I had there. After I slowed down, I asked them why they weren't going and getting all those doves down there? "Ah no, senor, the jarara lives down there, and we aren't going down there." Further inquiries revealed that the jarara was a bad assed snake, something on the order of a 3 stepper according to them. I am not particularly afraid of snakes, so I went down there and picked up a hundred birds or so in a few minutes, and then realized, "Hell, what am I doing this for, I can't use them for anything anyway". So I quit and walked back up the creek side. Meanwhile, the father and son bird boy combo were leaning on the barbed wire fence, exactly like vultures, apparently expecting me to fall over dead any second.

From there I walked back toward the lunch spot and crossed the creek and that is when I was shooting down on the doves.

Get back to the lunch and cuss out those bird boys. There are 2 brothers, unrelated to the bird boys, cooking. I don't know how true any of this is, but one of them holds up his hand, and his little finger is missing. He says, see that, that is from a jarara. "He ate it?" I asked. "No, he said, I was perdiz hunting, shot one down in a fence row, bent over to retrive it and a jarara bit me on that finger." "De veras (really)", I said, "so the bite caused your finger to fall off." Now, whether this is true or they were just jerking my chain or not, I have no way of knowing, but without cracking a smile or in any way indicating that he was telling anything but God's truth, he said, "No, senor, without hesitation, I put my finger over the end of the gun barrel and blew it off." I decided then and there that I didn't need to screw around in the jararas habitat anymore.

Those memories are a treasure that only other wing shooters can appreciate.

Some of the people in the Argentine countryside are colorful characters. They have strange and often very primitive beliefs and customs. Just last month I was reminded of this when a bird boy pierced his foot with a big vinal (pronounced Veenaal) thorn. The thorn left a hole about a quarter inch in diameter on the boy�s heel. He informed me that he was going to have his buddy tend to the injury. A moment later I asked the client, a lawyer from Milwaukee if he would like to see a bit of colorful Argentine folk medicine. When he turned around it was to see the bird boy about 30 yards away. His friend was urinating on the open wound. The things you see when you�re hunting the world, yes?

Saludos.

Another view on the price of hunting in Argentina is that most Outfitters charge u$250-450/day per hunter. When yo ubreak this down for a US trip you find they are alomst the same or cheaper in price.
1 day guided hunting in US U$200 - 400/person
1 Night at a motel in US U$ 80-120/night
1 Days meals on the scale & quality
of the meals served in Argentina
would cost you U$100+ in the US

So you have Lodging U$100 avg.
Guiding U$300 avg.
Meals 1day U$100 avg.

FOR A DAILY TOTAL OF U$500+ per day per person depending on where to hunt and stay.
You can find a NICE Lodge, Great Food, Exceptional Hunting in Argentina for U$250-35- per day per hunter and this includes transportation, laundry service, birdboys, food, beer and wine, and an exceptional meal in the field in the typical Argentine "asado" fashion. So basically the price is U$150-250 dollars CHEAPER per day per hunter than a trip in the US PLUS the HUNTING will be 1000% BETTER

Gatogordo: the name of that snake is "Yarar�" (bothrops alternatus being the scientific name of the most common variety). Our peasants also have another belief: once bitten a man never should allow the viper to run. A circle should be drawn around it to accomplish that purpose. Then the venom is rendered useless. I don�t know the origin of this nonsense. They also believe that such snakes milk cows.
Your hunting of yore took place at the Entre R�os Province, near the city of Paran�, which is some 400 kilometers from Buenos Aires.
By the way, yarar�s are related to your rattlesnakes (crotalus terrificus). If properly treated the bite isn�t too dangerous. Of course, antivenim ain�t always readily available here. Death rate is very low nevertheless.
Regards

Nainital,
It's good to have a "partner" to explain how things are down here

What you think about that finger story

The other one is good also, one chap urinating other one feet, my God, you argentinans have very strange things, here in Uruguay we are much more developed

By the way, Gardel was born in Tacuaremb�,Uruguay

Saludos
LG

Just goes to show my hearing wasn't all that great even back then , and it hasn't improved with age, jarara, yarara, close enough for my ears.

That's why I gave up on learning Chinese, its phonetic, and I flat can't hear the way they say the words.

Ok, you guys are convincing me I need to go the South America to hunt birds.

Where do I find some info on places and prices.

The only things I have to go by are the Orvis and other catalogs that I get. Their prices are a bit higher than whats been talked about here. High enough that when I look at them I think Plains Game Hunt, instead of bird hunt.

I'm sure just a little north of Cordoba in Lorenzo's neck of the woods the shooting is just as good, can't imagine it being better.
As far as guages, I brought my Benelli in 12 ga and Beretta 20ga. (in Argentina bringing guns in is easy) The way the birds fly, I didn't feel handicaped at all with the 20. If you were to make arangements ahead of time I'm sure 28's will be waiting.

You could very easily shoot $1,500 worth of shells in a three day trip. Some in our group did. I elected however to limit my shooting during each each morning and afternoon hunt and ended up shooting $600 worth of shells. That is probabaly the minimum. But I still had a fantastic time. Again, there is a link to the story of my hunt at www.45throatdoctor.com

Lorenzo: as you well know our peasants use to pull the leg of foreigners. Some of these lies are legend: the evil light, the uturunco (sort of Sasquatch), the Salamanca (the devil�s cave), etc., etc. The Uruguayans also say that Gardel was born at Tacuaremb� LOL. Our Eastern Province still pretends to steal our national singer...LOL.
Hugs

Eastern province?? JA!!
I know all argentinans want to own this little piece of land with increadible beaches, nice people, full of doves, and where the gauchos aren't walking around urinating someone else foot

The only thing I don't understand is why from your side of the river women are so beatiful

Ah, just in case you don't know it, the author of the tango "La Cumparsita" also was born here, his name was Mattos Rodriguez

Regards
LG

Lorenzo: our women get so beautiful because they are urinated in the foot at an early age. After that, they go to Punta del Este to be crowned Queens of every beauty contest that there is.Also our hair dressers go there to be crowned Queens.

Muy bueno

Daniel

Check out www.southernsportingsafaris.com for dove hunting trips in Argentina with GREAT prices including International Airfare, lodging, meals, guiding, gun permits, etc all included in the trips. Check out the website for "Web Specials"

Sincerely:

John Mckenzie

Here along the Texas gulf coast, peeing on a sting ray wound is commonly recommended as an emergency first aid remedy when another source of hot water is not available. Apparently hot water will break down the venom to some extent. Another more genteel method is to put the wound under the water outlet of an outboard motor. The word is that urine is sterile unless the donor has a kidney infection.

Personally, I'll shuffle my feet when I'm wade fishing and try to avoid all the remedies. Bob

This kind of venom has metallic particles in it. An electric discharge of low intensity should decompose it. The method involves a Taser or something connected to a car battery and the shock should be directed to the area nearing the bite.
To return, check for dove hunting in www.cazarenargentina.com. My friend Gustavo Gim�nez offers a good service at Santiago Tempe, C�rdoba, Argentina.
Good luck

Naintial , I read about the electro discharging to help on snakes bites , they work as the venom are proteins , and discharge denaturalized it , (if they are blood toxic no problem as you have time to have medical assistance ), the simple disconection of the plug cable and applied in the bite it`s enough .

Saludos
Daniel

Hi
Snake venom contains hundreds of different proteins and metaloproteas is one them . actually this matter(using electic shock) is still under the study and yet haven't proved. -.if you go to snake area be sure that you have ,cortison(for fighting inflammatio),and ampicillin(against infection) with you ,because the bite of snake is always acompanied with sever infection in damged tissues and proper serum is absolutly the best to have ,but it needs a true identification of snake otherwise it could be dangerous.
regards
danny