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Does anyone still make a 10 guage? Any help appreciated. Bob Mehaffey | ||
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Sure. Remington and Browning, maybe more... Pedersoli makes a good blackpowder 10ga. Why are you interested in a 10ga? A 12ga 3.5" is virtually identical in ballistics. I always wanted a 10ga, but I already have a 12ga 3.5" that duplicates the 10ga. I did however, get the Pedersoli 10ga to fill that "smoke belching" niche in my shotgun arsenal  "The atomic bomb made the prospect of future war unendurable. It has led us up those last few steps to the mountain pass; and beyond there is a different country." - J. Robert Oppenheimer | |||
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ManCannon said it all. I think Remington only offers a semi in 10 gauge magnum. Browning offers their BPS pump. That's the one I bought. Not as heavy as the semi when walking for wild turkey. Mine is also lighter as I had the 30" barrel cut to 23" and extra full choke tube inserted by Mark Bansner in Adamstown, PA. One shot kills out to 65 yards using 2 and 1\4 ounces of copper-plated, buffered 4 shot. | |||
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Remington has the SP-10 (Auto) and Browning has the 10 Ga Gold Hunter and the BPS (pump). The only other choice is to find a used Ithaca 10 Ga. The Remington SP-10 is the same design as the old Ithaca. Basically, ManCannon hit the nail right on the head. A good 3.5 inch 12 ga will do 99% of what a 10 ga can do. On turkeys, the ballistics are the same. The only advantage for a 10 ga is duck or goose hunting. The shot string will be longer, thus producing better patterns. Turkey hunters are shooting at a stationary target, so the shot string doesn't matter. | |||
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Bob, what do you plan on hunting with a 10 gauge? | |||
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Might hunt turkey but I have a niece who is pretty good size who wahts one. Thanks a lot guys. Appreciate the help. Bob Mehaffey | |||
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Unfortunately, the selection of 10ga ammo is pretty pathetic... And what you can find is quite a bit more expensive than 12ga. Look into a 3.5" 12ga. Probably THE most versatile firearm in existence.  "The atomic bomb made the prospect of future war unendurable. It has led us up those last few steps to the mountain pass; and beyond there is a different country." - J. Robert Oppenheimer | |||
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Mac, Thanks, I might go with th1 12 guage 3 and 1/2. Bob Mehaffey | |||
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You'll be a happy man and have a happy niece if you do. From birds to bears, and all things in between, the 12ga 3.5" just plain Get's Er Dun!!  "The atomic bomb made the prospect of future war unendurable. It has led us up those last few steps to the mountain pass; and beyond there is a different country." - J. Robert Oppenheimer | |||
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I shoot a BPS 10 ga. It WILL do things a 3 1/2" 12 ga. won't. Is the difference worth buying one instead of the long 12?? No. Already having the 10 ga. I wasn't about to get rid of it when I got my first 3 1/2" 12 ga. But had I bought the long 12 first.........I probably would not own the BPS today. BTW........a 23" BPS 10 ga. takes no second seat to most DGR rifles at the back end when firing lead loads. It just plain sucks to light one off from a seated "turkey hunting" position. Founder....the OTPG | |||
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Mr Strut... Please elaborate on what your 10ga does that a 12ga 3.5" cannot. I've yet to see the difference, but maybe I'm not fully up to speed.  "The atomic bomb made the prospect of future war unendurable. It has led us up those last few steps to the mountain pass; and beyond there is a different country." - J. Robert Oppenheimer | |||
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Shorter/fatter shot columns will generally pattern better all other things being equal. The metal thrown by the 3.5" long 12ga tends not to pattern as well as a 10ga does and a 10ga throws more metal.... you can demonstrate this effect if you compare by patterning 20ga magnum loads to similar velocity and weight loads fired from a 12Ga. Is a 10ga worth it? you'll have to decide that yourself. And there is a better selection of 12ga 3-1/2" loads available as compared with 10ga loads.... But if you have a shotshell press you can load whatever you want. Frankly for turkeys I prefer hunting them in the fall when it's legal to shoot them with a rifle... a 40gr VLC out of a 223 hitting a turkey in the head is extreemly effective, and I can do that without difficult to 150-175yards... For birds in flight more metal in the air has got to be a good thing.... Just as a gag I once shot a round of trap with a BPS-10ga and handloaded 2-1/4oz loads of #8's Yes, I broke all 25, would I do it again? Mabey when I've forgotten how sore I was afterwards  2-1/4oz of #8's is an awful lot of metal.... AllanD If I provoke you into thinking then I've done my good deed for the day! Those who manage to provoke themselves into other activities have only themselves to blame. *We Band of 45-70er's* 35 year Life Member of the NRA NRA Life Member since 1984 | |||
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A 10ga does NOT throw more metal... Any shortcomings caused by shot string length can be easily overcome with specialized chokes, something you'll be extremely hard pressed to find for a 10ga. Also the comparison between 20ga and 12ga is not very meaningful when comparing a 12ga to a 10ga. The 20ga has a 15% smaller bore than a 12ga. A 12ga is only 6% smaller than a 10ga. Backboring reduces that gap even further. 10ga outperforms the 12ga??? NO WAY!!  "The atomic bomb made the prospect of future war unendurable. It has led us up those last few steps to the mountain pass; and beyond there is a different country." - J. Robert Oppenheimer | |||
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"Any shortcomings caused by shot string length can be easily overcome with specialized chokes, something you'll be extremly hard pressed to find for a 10ga." ManCannon, the 10 gauge patterns so well with factory choke tube that it does NOT need specialized choke tubes! 3 1/2 inch 10 gauge steel loads greatly outperforms 3 1/2 inch 12 gauge in the harvest of waterfowl by a looooong shot. I used to own a Super Black Eagle and I could never get the gun to pattern right or somewhat decent with various expensive brand of choke tubes. I personally believed that there is too much shot in that 12 gauge hull @ 3 1/2 inches for most shotgun brands except for Mossberg being the fact that there 12 gauge 3 1/2 inch barrels are the same diameter as the 10 gauge. You can also get even more performance out of the 10 gauge if you reload. | |||
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With a specialized choke tube, patterning is equal. So what if it has a specialized choke tube...  With the advent of Hevi-Shot, I no longer use steel. Steel has and will always be a poor performer on waterfowl, no matter what gauge you use. Sure the 10 can do better with steel, but stoke up a 12ga with Hevi-shot, and it leaves the 10ga steel load wanting... Apples to Apples??? Both factory Hevi-Shot loads for 10ga and 12ga are identical. Reload??? I can find no data right off hand that shows the 10ga burping out any more shot than the 12ga. The velocity difference is marginal at best. Am I missing some data??? "The atomic bomb made the prospect of future war unendurable. It has led us up those last few steps to the mountain pass; and beyond there is a different country." - J. Robert Oppenheimer | |||
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In the good old days of lead my standard load for my Ithaca 10 ga. auto was 2-1/4 oz of high-antimony shot and the heavy load for geese was 2-1/2 oz of buffered 2's; there were times when I would burn 20-30 of these in a day. I don't think you could cram 2-1/2 oz in the 3.5 12 case. More volume=more payload. Practically speaking, the thought of touching off 2-1/4 load in an 8# pump gun makes my retinas hurt. All the back boring and choke work just makes the 12 more like a standard 10ga. Do the same work to a 10 and you can make it behave like an 8 ga. C.G.B. | |||
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Excellent discusion. Thanks a lot guys. Bob Mehaffey | |||
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A good patterning 10 bore will indeed do very well on long range geese with the proper load of steel.........the newer fast loads will make a believer out of you . As far as I'm concerned , a 10 with proper steel loads offers very near the killing reach of a 3 inch 12 with hevi-shot , and the ammo don't cost $2.50 a piece , either . And I sure don't see a shortage of ammo for the Ten as far as waterfowling goes........everything from 1 3/8 of steel and up, including Hevi-Shot. Now if you are wanting quail/dove loads , you might see a shortage of appropriate 10 bore ammo there , (grin) | |||
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cgbach I remember the good old lead shot days and goose limits were like 2/day over most of the country. I can't imagine firing 20-30 rounds a day even if you figured in a limit of ducks also. We used lead 4's for geese and 6's or 7 1/2's for ducks in 2 3/4" shells. 375win After the first shot the rest are just noise | |||
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Tom Roster's 3rd Edition Buffered Lead & Bismuth Shotshell Reloading Manual is available at Precision Reloading. Lots of 10ga reloading info and recipes for specialized loads. http://precisionreloading.com/ | |||
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Mr. Mancannon... What my 10 gauge will do (on an overwhelming average) is put more pellets.... lead or steel....on target at a given range than a long 12 shooting the same payload. Period. Here is my background. I am first and foremost a turkey hunter. I have researched, tested and done the math on about any modern turkey gun/load/choke combo that you want to discuss. From the birth of the Mossberg 835 I was somewhat (no....actually quite) unimpressed with the 3 1/2" 12 ga. But as the aftermarket choke makers got going, things improved. Then the shotshell manufacturers got on the stick and figured a few things out about buffers and payload weights. Today, the long 12 is the real deal (even though I still think the 835 sucks). My "go to" turkey gun for the last 5 years has been a 3 1/2" Super X2 and it shoots lead like an S.O.B. with a XXX-Full Comp-N-Choke tube. Won't out-shoot my BPS 10 ga. Not across the chrono. Not pellets on target. Not anywhere in this world. As for steel.......I do a good bit of field hunting for Canada's. At first, I thought it was just my own biased opinion that the 10 would crush a goose considerably higher than the 835's, SBE's etc. Then it got to a point where after I had filled my limit the other guys were calling "dibbs" on the BPS. Granted, that's not the same as the math as I've done on the lead. But it's pretty darned convincing. Founder....the OTPG | |||
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shot a truck-load of doves with my 835, also teal, 1oz. loads, then can switch to 2 3/4 duck, 3in. for goose over decoys and 3 1/2 for pass shooting. in So. Tx many bird seasons overlap. the 3.5 12 is much more versitile than a 10. Kurt. | |||
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O.K. Before I piss off everybody who owns an 835, let me say this. Yes....a 3 1/2" 12 is more versatile than a 10. No question or argument. It's JMHO that the 835 is a piece of crap. I've owned them. I've shot them. I've talked to the dealers who send them back to Mossberg. They feel like a 4x4 deckpost in my hands and are clunky as a thrashing machine. I've never been ultra-impressed with their patterning capabilities either (although I have seen a few that shot quite well). The Super X2 (albeit twice the money) will function anything from 7/8 oz. Wal-Mart low brass to the 2 1/4 oz. candlesticks.......flawlessly, as well. Some people drive K-Cars and like them. I'll take the Corvette whenever I can. Founder....the OTPG | |||
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375Win: when I first moved to Colo. they were on the 'point' system for ducks. If you shot low point birds you could kill 10/day. I used 2-1/4 of high antimony #5's in the Ithaca auto and really had some fun. When steel got stuffed down our throats I switched to an 8-1/2# 10 ga. o/u shooting 1-5/8 oz of steel 1's or B's. It did about as much as could be done with steel. Now I am using bismuth or tungsten polymer in a 12ga. double and much prefer this to any steel. C.G.B. | |||
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I think the real answer is in personal preference. I cannot argue that the 3.5 inch 12 is a more versatile gun, IF one was trying to constrain the number of guns one owns. It also depends in some degree on the application. I have shot a SP-10 for 10 years, and I had a BPS 10 before that. I have hunted ducks like a fiend with both. I also have several 12 gauge guns. If I am anticipating shooting ducks at closer ranges, I very well may take a 12 gauge with hevi shot. I must admit that it is very effective. On the other hand, if I am expecting longer ranges due to the type/location of the hunt, I will go with the 10 every time. No tests or empirical data, just experience is the basis for this. I will also note that hevi shot in a 10 gauge is like a death ray at ranges too far to admit! I would also add that 'specialty chokes' are available in 10 gauge and I shoot angleport/ballistic specialties chokes in my SP-10. If you have the option, get both. IF not, get the one that best fits your need. Both will get the job done. | |||
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Just to throw everyone a curve, I have a 10 gauge BPS, and hunt doves with it using Federal Turkey Load 6's. Why hunt with a 10 gauge, cause it is fun and the nostalgia is great. I am looking for a reaasonably priced 10 ga. double with 30 or 32 inch barrels choked either full & modified, or modified and improved modified. 10 gauge shells are more expensive, harder to find, and don't offer that many shot sizes. The guns weigh a ton and still kick like a mule, but there is just something magical when you pull one of those things out of a case and everybody asks what you are shooting. Even with a pump or a semi-auto, just saying it is a 10 gauge conjures up images of hunting inthe 1880's or 1890's, when the 8 and 10 were pretty muchily the standard. Do I recommend a 10 to anyone, Hell no. A 12 ga. with 3.5 in. chamber is much more versatile and will do anything that the 10 will at much less cost. As for me, I still want that double I described. Even the rocks don't last forever. | |||
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There's no doubt in my mind the Ten is superior on large geese to anything you can stuff into a 12 bore , 3.5 inch shells or not . You do pay a price for that performance in both gun weight and recoil. I don't know about other waterfowling areas , but there is certainly no shortage of 10 bore ammo in NE South Dakota , and I find the price little different from equivalent 3.5 inch 12 guage shells . | |||
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I didn't go the 835 route my cousin had already been there. I started on a Remington 870 Express Magnum. I thought it was a pretty good Turkey gun. I came across a Browning 10 gauge NWTF BPS at a gun show. It brought me into a new world of Turkey hunting. It will out pattern the 870 with any size shot. My cousin and I went out every year just to check things out and pattern the guns. He was nothing short of impressed the first year he say the BPS. I still take the 870 along each season but it sits in Camp. It's my backup gun. | |||
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I have 3 ten's. A sawed off double, a single and a remington semi auto. I don't use if for birds. But for big game it has many advantages over a 12 3 1/2. No buckshot loads for the 12. The 10 gives you a 1 7/8oz slug and the biggest you canget out of a 12 is 1 3/8 oz. now if they made a Copper solid for the ten it would be perfect. | |||
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Don't have a whole lot of experiance with 10 ga. only have 1 a remington double that I only shoot BP loads in. Have several friends that have them though, 1 is a NEF the other is the Remington SP10. Both swear by them as long range killers. Bob if you want a 10 ga. go get one. You're from Texas! You got have the gun with the biggest hole, don't you?  This topic made me curious so I did a little checking on Winchester's website. Heavey turkey loads 10 ga 2 1/4 oz @ 1210 fps 12x3 1/2 2oz @ 1300 fps Steel 10 ga 1 3/4 oz @ 1260 12x3 1/2 1 9/16 oz @ 1300. So at least Winnies throw about an extra 1/4 oz but the 12 wins on velocity, I've always heard "speed kills" Seems this whole thing came about because of the steel shot issue. Until that the 10 was pretty much dead. Not sure with the with things like Bismuth and Hevi how it'll shake out but many hunters have problems with the recoil of either round. I know several turkey hunters who have 3 1/2s that only shoot 3" in them because of recoil. This spring I took my 14 year old daughter turkey hunting. She was using an Ithaca 12 ga with 2 3/4" Hevi shot. It patterned better then my BPS 3" or my buddies 870 3 1/2" with buffered copper plated shot. | |||
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The 12 "wins on velocity" because it's throwing 1/4 oz. less shot. Compare similar payload weights and they are pretty much identical. Also, in patterning out 10's and long 12's, both will pattern better with the 2 oz. load than with the 2 1/4 oz. load (both in net pellets on target and percentage).
You & your buddy need to find a better shooting combination. Founder....the OTPG | |||
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[
You & your buddy need to find a better shooting combination. [/QUOTE]Well I've tried about every thing besides Hevi. I got Hevi for her trying to get the best pattern with the least reoil. I've been to cheap to use Hevi until I saw that. The point is that there are many factors influancing patterns. Guage and shot charge are only 2 of them. | |||
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Sam....... Screw a Comp-N-Choke XXX-Full tube in your BPS and buy a box of Winchester Supreme HV #6 shot. If you have the extra coin, get a box of the X-Tended Range Hi-Density Elites in #6 shot. The HV's will shoot well through that tube......guaranteed. The Elites will gain you another 10%-20% more hits on target. Founder....the OTPG | |||
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Thanks Strut, I'll keep that in mind. At the end of turkey season I picked up a turkey barrel for my Encore. I'll try one of those choke tubes in that. I've always prided my self on being somewhat recoil tolerant, but that 6 lb Encore and 3" turkey loads is definatly not the most pleasant gun to shoot! | |||
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If you could only have one shotgun, I would pick a 12G with an extra barrel. But if you want the BEST turkey and goose gun made buy a sp-auto 10. It patterns better at all distances, undeniably better at long range (40+ yd.). And it has less recoil then most lighter 12G.. Just don't plan on using it on ducks or pheasants! Robert Johnson | |||
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I was reared on i diet of big bore english double 8s and 4 s and i had 10s mainly the spanish side by sides as a youth i went to a ithaca mag 10 and browning gold and sp10 i had a Bps that was the best of the lot in the 10s you lost less expensive cartridge cases something not all are interested in but i want em back for sure. Now if i were to ever buy a 10 bore again it whould be a side by side spanish because they are strong and reliable and you never lose a case not even close to your feet. !0 bores are technicaly better than the 12-3.5 inch but in the field you cant honestly see the advantage, and any advantage there may be is balanced strongly to the 12 bore in the handy to mount and swing department straight away. | |||
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Bob: What Strut10 and stagwold said. I don't shoot a 10 much anymore since I'm not really in a goose hunting area and my duck shooting is mostly timber mallard type work, BUT in the past there was and is NO DOUBT that a 10 will significantly outperform a 12 in the hands of a good shooter THAT IS USED TO THE GUN. OTOH Stag Wolf very correctly pointed out that 10s are heavier and have a steep learning curve on handling and shooting them well. BOTTOM LINE: For 97% of hunting a 12 will be just as good as a 10 and probably better considering wt and handling problems as well as ammo availability and costs. BUT ANYONE who really thinks a 12 is the equal of a 10 for 60 plus yard geese is either kidding themselves or more likely has never shot a 10 much or been the victim of a 10 shooter next to a 12. BTW the 2 geese limit per day comment is probably referring to Canadas. In the old days in La and TX it was 5 in a combination of dark front (specs and Canadas) and snows and blues plus up to 10 ducks. Many days I've shot 25 to 40 shells out of a 10, mostly back then an Ithaca Mag10. Tried a Richland Arms imported o/u but every now and then it would double, that would make your fillings hurt.  xxxxxxxxxx When considering US based operations of guides/outfitters, check and see if they are NRA members. If not, why support someone who doesn't support us? Consider spending your money elsewhere. NEVER, EVER book a hunt with BLAIR WORLDWIDE HUNTING or JEFF BLAIR. I have come to understand that in hunting, the goal is not the goal but the process. | |||
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