Hi Guys,

Not a very riveting fall here. Geese left early, got one swan, a few ducks and now their mostly gone.

Serious question; Chokes in a Ruger and Black Cloud? I've been using the I/C first and the the modified, (Redlabel,) and tried the skeet tube last weekend. Bad idea, really bad idea. Never hit with the skeet, killed as usual with the I/C.

Most of my hunting is over decoys and very close. It'd be an average hunt for me to do most of my shooting at birds inside of 30 and many less that 20 yards. Can Black Cloud be opened up with standard chokes or is the Flight Control wad just designed for longer ranges?

I sure like the stuff.

Black Cloud has messed up more barrels and blown up more chokes than any other shell in the past. The Saturn rings type cutting edge on the shot flies well in tight formation so tightening the chokes up will be a better option. So couple of things to consider if you want to continue to use Black Cloud:

- Do not use Black Cloud in older barrels.
- Think twice before using it in in a Double barrel.
- Newer pumps, Semiautos (SBE, Extrema, etc) should be fine.
- Do not use ported chokes if using Black Cloud.

If you want to use aftermarket chokes then check with these manufacturers, they have built special chokes for Black Cloud (in other words any choke out there is not going to work well with it....it has to be a choke especially designed for Black Cloud).

- Carlson: www.choketube.com

- Patternmaster: www.patternmaster.com

- Kicks: www.kicks-ind.com

- Trulock: www.trulockchokes.com

- Pure Gold: www.puregoldchokes.com


Now if you call the choke manufacturers and ask them the same question "Why does Black Cloud need a special choke ?" you are going to get 10 different answers.

In my opinion it is not worth putting that shot column through an older gun.

My friends that I hunt w/ in Canada use BlackCloud & Patternmaster's special BC choke w/ mixed results. I use the Patternmaster on a SBE II + Hevi-Shot w/ decent results, but that's for the Big Birds.

quote:

Originally posted by collector:
Black Cloud has messed up more barrels and blown up more chokes than any other shell in the past. The Saturn rings type cutting edge on the shot flies well in tight formation so tightening the chokes up will be a better option. So couple of things to consider if you want to continue to use Black Cloud:

- Do not use Black Cloud in older barrels.
- Think twice before using it in in a Double barrel.
- Newer pumps, Semiautos (SBE, Extrema, etc) should be fine.
- Do not use ported chokes if using Black Cloud.

If you want to use aftermarket chokes then check with these manufacturers, they have built special chokes for Black Cloud (in other words any choke out there is not going to work well with it....it has to be a choke especially designed for Black Cloud).

- Carlson: www.choketube.com

- Patternmaster: www.patternmaster.com

- Kicks: www.kicks-ind.com

- Trulock: www.trulockchokes.com

- Pure Gold: www.puregoldchokes.com


Now if you call the choke manufacturers and ask them the same question "Why does Black Cloud need a special choke ?" you are going to get 10 different answers.

In my opinion it is not worth putting that shot column through an older gun.

Pretty new gun.

I'm following most of what your saying except for the tighten up the choke part. I was hoping for more open patterns for closer shooting. I took a greenhead two weeks ago at about 10 yards with my I/C barrel and it was unsalvageable.

I'll look at the websites you listed and thanks much, but so far I'm under the impression Ruger keeps its parts proprietary so Patternmaster for example does not offer Ruger chokes?

Thanks for the discussion folks.

@Scott
10yards is a bit close even for skeet....you will tear the birds up at that range.

Black Cloud and tight chokes is basically a recipe for mid to long range shooting.

If you are shooting upclose decoying birds, say 10 to 15 yards then you want light steel loads 2 3/4" out of a skeet choke in #4.

To give you an example if I am collecting ducks for taxidermy I hate shooting birds that close to the barrel. My optimal distance with an IC is 30 yards with steel shot #4. Kills them clean without excessive damage to bird skin or meat.

Black cloud is famous for tearing birds up...that Saturn ring acts as a cutting edge pulverizing skin and meat and that is why I do not use it if I am collecting. However it has its uses at long range or pass shooting geese at 45 plus yards so I won't completely put it down. Also for seaducks (which have thicker skin) and shooting is usally at longer distances, it will be a great option.

So decoying birds at under 20 yards, go with Skeet and light 2 3/4" #4 or #6 shot steel. That ammo is very cheap, you will kill the birds clean without making a whole lot of mess.

PATTERNMASTER FOR RUGER
Looks like they have not made any for Ruger yet. I guess most of the waterfowl market is for Beretta, Benelli, Winchester, Browning....however they may make one for you. Try calling them, they may charge you a bit extra but if you send them a sample choke then maybe they will make one for you.

Did you notice the TEMPEST choke designed for Black Cloud does NOT have ports on it



Black Cloud...too many adjustments required to your shooting equipment...only to ruin birds at closer distances...and the chance of reducing the life of your gun barrel.

It is probably the greatest cheaper shotshell made for Mossberg shooting public. Don't take it the wrong way, I have put a few Black Cloud boxes through my Benelli Nova pump and hammered a few birds....but I used the non-ported IC choke and it patterned pretty tight.

We shoot a lot of geese here in Maryland. After 35+ years of shooting I can tell you Black Cloud is a waste of money.

BC is just steel shot with some of the pellets in a different shape and a very tight wad.
If you are shooting over dekes and the birds are decoying within 30-40 yards, plain old steel shot works just fine. Why pay almost double for BC when it is still steel shot?

Last year we shot over 400 geese out of just one of our fields.

All those geese were killed using cheap Kent or Sportsman BB's through Patternmaster chokes.

Here are some pattern numbers from Federal Premium Ultra-Shok Steel loads and Federal Black Cloud Flight-Stopper Steel loads to provide a comparison on their performance.

While a 12-gauge 3" 1 1/4-ounce load isn’t my normal duck shooting load, it is a popular load with many hunters. As a result, I chose these two loads to see how the Black Cloud load would do up against a regular steel load of the same brand.

All patterns were shot on the same day with a 12-gauge 3" Remington 870 Special Purpose w/ 28" barrel and factory flush Rem-chokes (pattern average of five, 30" post-shot scribed circle, yardage taped muzzle to target, in-shell pellet count average of five, and true choke constriction from bore gauge).

12 GA 3" – FEDERAL PREMIUM ULTRA-SHOK STEEL LOAD
1 1/4 oz #2 steel (zinc plated?) 147 pellets @ 1,450 fps
40 YARDS
IC (.009" const.) / pattern 82 (56%)
Mod (.016" const.) / pattern 105 (71%)
Mod (.018" const.) / pattern 109 (74%)
F (S/L) (.037" const.) / pattern 119 (81%)

12 GA 3" – FEDERAL PREMIUM BLACK CLOUD FLIGHT-STOPPER STEEL LOAD
1 1/4 oz #2 steel (zinc plated?) 91 pellets + 53 FS steel pellets = 144 pellets @ 1,450 fps
40 YARDS
IC (.009" const.) / pattern 88 (61%)
Mod (.016" const.) / pattern 82 (57%)
Mod (.018" const.) / pattern 92 (64%)
F (S/L) (.037" const.) / pattern 113 (78%)

First things first. Yes, I have two modified factory flush Rem-chokes. One has .016" constriction and the other has .018" constriction as measured with a bore gauge.

As you can see, the regular steel load actually patterned better (higher percentage) than the higher priced Black Cloud load with the Flight-Stopper steel and Flight-control wad. Heck, the Black Cloud load barely held mallard killin’ density at 40 yards with the modified chokes! Of the over 1,000 steel load patterns I’ve shot in the last few years, these are some of the lowest percentages I’ve had with this gun/chokes.

All in all, I would consider this Black Cloud load as a poor performer when I can easily get good mallard killin' patterns from 2 3/4" Remington Sportsman loads. I will say that I’ve never shot a duck with BC loads, I just did this pattern testing to satisfy my curiosity.

Of course, the pattern numbers were the results from one gun so it doesn't really "prove" anything other than what works in that gun and that pattern testing your gun/load/choke is the only way to really know what kind of performance your getting down range. Anyway, here are some of the Sportsman pattern numbers so you can be the judge if the Black Cloud shells are worth the extra cost.

Here are the Sportsman pattern numbers with the same gun and chokes as above for comparison.

40 YARDS – Mod (.016" const.)
Rem Sportsman Steel 2 3/4" 1 1/8 oz #2 steel (139 pellets) – pattern 110 (79%)

40 YARDS – Mod (.018" const.)
Rem Sportsman Steel 2 3/4" 1 1/8 oz #2 steel (139 pellets) – pattern 116 (84%)

I have had very good luck with the Win 1550fps cheap stuff from wally world. I use to hate steel shot for the price and lack of killing power. I Have been useing the 1550fps stuff for about 4 years now seems to work well.

quote:

Originally posted by p dog shooter:
I have had very good luck with the Win 1550fps cheap stuff from wally world. I use to hate steel shot for the price and lack of killing power. I Have been useing the 1550fps stuff for about 4 years now seems to work well.

Exactly, call the birds inside of 40 yards and you'll do just fine.

And yes, this is from someone who shoots tons of birds and I hunted back in the days of leadshot.

.