Hi Chaps

Having only ever used Side by Side shotguns I am playing with the idea of getting an over and under or a semi auto.

I like the idea of the Semi Auto for pigeon shooting, one of our main quarry but also like the appeal of the O/U.

Can any of you make suggestions on an quality option on both of these without spending more than a working gun is worth.

It must have removable chokes
It must be able to shoot 3,5" Magnum ammo
It must be a gun that I could have fitted to me without huge costs
If it can easily mount a sight to assist bad eyes etc then even better.

I am left eye dominant and shoot and do most things right handed. Do you have any bright ideas to improve my shooting

Any ideas will be great and please feel free to post some pictures of the guns or bags you have taken with them

Kind regards
Ian

I have many many shotguns as i guide bird hunting almost daily .Recently i bougth a real handy ligth reliable shotgun that appears to be one of the better that i ever carried,Its a berettaa400xplore ultraligth .Try it ,im left haded on long arms too .

Ian :

If you are going to shoot 3.5 inch, expect a lot more recoil with the O/U.

I would recommend a Benelli Super Black Eagle II. I have 4 of them (my sons shoot them as well). They shoot the light loads all the way up to the 3.5 inch with no problem. I have shot mine many thousands of times in Argentina. I love it.

The SBE II has a set of shims that come with it that allows easy adjustment to fit the shooter.

I would also recommend changing the from bead to something more visible . It is simple and cheap .

+1 on Larry's recommendation. SBE II hard to beat. Reliable. Can really take the abuse in the field.

+3 on the SBEII...I've loved mine for the last 8 years.

But one question: why MUST the gun shoot 3.5" if your main quarry is pigeons?

Thanks for the replies.

The Benelli seems to tick all the boxes. They retail here for around USD 3500-USD 4500
The winchester and remington offerings seem to retail between USD 1500 and USD 2500 with a Beretta Silver Pigeon 1 going for USD 2500 as a price comparison.

How does the Benelli M2 or Vinci compare to the SBE?
I have not spoken to the importers yet but there website only lists the M2,3,4, and the Vinci

With regards to the Magnums I hunt bushpig and occasionally leopard over hounds.

I personally shot 4 Bushpig boars last year with the longest shot being at 2,5m. i.e. I only get to shoot when the shit hits the fan and a bayed up boar has decided to have a go at the client.
The smallest boar that charged last season was 90kg the biggest 147kg. Hence I though that having some serious firepower would not only be nice, but quite a lot of fun too.

Having seen how some of the guys are getting better results with the modern high end magnum loads I am pretty sure that they have a place on leopard, especially if you can find a gun that you can trust to cycle, even in the thick stuff.
To give you an idea, the leopard shot in Pongola was through a gap in some fallen logs at 3 m.

Does anyone have an opinion on a Winchester SX3, having bough my new M70 in 458 a little while back, I was very inpressed with the build quality. Do their shotguns get built to the same standard?

Juan, I am still searching for the Beretta semi autos here, seems that they mainly import the O/U here due to the popularity of them.

Thanks for all the replies and I look forward to hearing more suggestions
Regards
Ian

My understanding is the Vinci model will not shoot 3.5 inch. I have never shot one. I might be wrong. A guy I know says the Vinci kicks less than other Benelli models.

All ways been a fan of the Beretta autos over the Benelli. IMHO they will cycle lower pressure loads more reliably, like most modern autos you can adjust cast and drop with a washer between stock and receiver. I also prefer the position of the safety which is located on the front of the trigger guard like the Winchester pumps and autos where as the Benelli's safety is located on the rear of the trigger guard like Remington's pumps and autos.
What ever you choose good shooting and hot barrels

Benelli Super Vinci shoots 3.5".....I know a few buds that have em and love em.

http://www.benelliusa.com/super-vinci-shotgun

Ian.....the high-end semis are all excellent with personal fit, and preference of inertia vs gas-driven action being the deciding factors for you.

The Benellis are inertia-driven and thus more slender and cleaner.....and ridiculously easy to break down....the SBEII and M2 are both equally top notch. The Berettas are gas-driven and thus get dirtier and are a bit harder to thoroughly clean but they shoot softer due to the gas action. Honestly, I wouldn't even look at the others semis.

As far as the location of the safety.....personal preference and I MUCH prefer it behind the trigger.

PS....I almost forgot to mention: if I were using the shotty for DG I'd be getting a pump....they ALWAYS go boom....and you can't beat a Super Nova.

http://www.benelliusa.com/supernova-pump-shotgun

Box H..
I am assuming that you are shooting right handed with your left eye dominance. I too am left eye dominant but was caught by a knowing father at an early age who taught me to shoot long guns off the left side. Because I do everything else off the right side I am quite cross dominant, in other words if I shoot with both eyes open as one should my eyes argue and will see two rear and front sights when shooting irons with a rifle or pistol. There is a product called a magic dot that can be reproduced using opaque scotch tape.
You will need your shooting glasses a empty shotgun and a good friend that knows the gun is empty and some chap stick. With your shooting glasses on shoulder your shotgun with your left eye closed, aim it at your really good friend's eye then open your left eye and have him reach down the barrel and with the chap stick and blot out the pupil of your left eye on the outside of your shooting glasses. The mark should be about the size of your thumb nail. Then with the tape cut to the same size affix it to the inside of lense.



It will take a bit to get use to but soon you will forget it is there. It will allow you to have binocular vision and will only impede the vision of your eye when your head is hard on the stock while still allowing you to have peripheral vision..
Good shooting pm me if you have any questions

HIB

As zephyr says he berettas wil cycle more reliably than any others. We shoot thousands of shells through all sorts of semi autos in RSA and some are not even wort considering.

The SBE Is good but struggles with some shells. The Winchester is not worth having, and you will probably wish you had a bayonet the on the end soon!!!

Are you shooting slugs or buck shot?

K

I also prefer a gas gun over a recoil operated shotgun. The Beretta autos will cycle any load from light to heavy but I'm sure the Benelli will do that too. I am currently shooting a Browning Maxus in 3" which has not let me down in 3 seasons. I would not want to shoot 3.5" shells in an O/U although I have shot 3" in a Browning Feather that rattled my teeth some. For what you are talking about, it seems something that holds more than 2 shots might have more utility. On a side note, where in Pongola area did you happen to shoot the leopard? I worked in Pongola, in the early 90's, even dated a girl there who ran the Pongola Hotel. My company grew cotton in that area.
NoCAL

Thanks for all the replies.
There is a wealth of wisdom to be gleaned.

I will shop around a bit more and see what can be found.
There are a few older Berettas nocking around, mostly never seen much action either. The importer cant tell me when he will get an SBE though and the Beretta guys have not come back at all.

Did I understand correctly that the Winchester is actually a Browning, so should they both be avoided

The cat was up in the basin, heading North, the girls up there tend to be even more wily than a cattle killer, how did you come out of that one

Thanks for the advice on the glasses, they do work, however wont stay on my head in the stuff we operate in and tend to mist up when it gets hot and sweaty.

Please keep the info coming
Ian

What sort of reputation does the Remington 1100 have and the Beretta A301 or A400 Extreme and then quite a few Franchis

Are you open to something completely different? Here you go - http://www.remington.com/produ...ing-model-sp-10.aspx. For up close leopard the rifle sights thumbhole version sounds about right. It'd be strong medicine.

Compared to the 12 ga 3.5 the big 10 will give you a much better pattern spread and a lot more shot.

The Remington pictured has a good reputation as a 10 ga gas op autoloader. I've seen them used. I personally swear by its "little brother", the 12 ga 11-87. There's also the older Ithaca Mag 10 (it came in three grades), which the Rem 10 ga is modeled after. There's also a Browning 10 ga.

There's been this discussion of these here - http://forums.accuratereloadin...051033691#8051033691

Btw, for leopard, I'd get a short barrel (or have it shortened), go with the most open choke you can find and of course pull the migratory bird mag plug (those are required in the U.S.). And I'd definitely forget O/U. It's true, they're just like an auto-loader for the first two shots, but then you're done. And they'll cost you a little more recovery time from recoil especially with the heavier loads. You may not have time for that.

For this kind of shooting, I much prefer a good Beretta 680 series O/U over any semi-auto made.

I shoot (pretty poorly, but) with both eyes open.

quote:

Originally posted by Hunting the Box H:
What sort of reputation does the Remington 1100 have and the Beretta A301 or A400 Extreme and then quite a few Franchis

the Rem 1100 has been around for a long time and has shot countless birds and clays.. But it can be fickle I've seen comp shooters break the gun down every 50 rounds to wipe the exterior of the mag tube dry and to ensure the rubber grommet is sound, I have also seen field guns with hundreds of rounds through them and never been clean so go figure.
the Beretta 301 is one of there earlier autos and has a great reputation the A400 is one of their top performing field guns today.

Evidently, the Benelli Ethos is the new wonder gun. Anyone have one? Looks pretty good on all fronts but $2k isn't cheap for a semi.

I have put thousands of rounds through the Benelli Super 90 and M2 shotguns. I have seen a lot of these models consume thousands of rounds and take a lot of abuse and still keep functioning. Every one I have ever fired or been around would cycle everything from 3" magnums to AA Lite loads without any problems. If I were ever going to own an auto again, it would be a Benelli M2.

Having said all of that, I shoot an 1882 Lancaster SxS hammer gun most of the time. My shotgun proficiency has finally reached a level where I can effectively kill or miss any target, with any load, out of any shotgun.

I shoot the original SBE and it has preformed flawlessly for the past 8 years. The SBE II's are great guns that several of my friends shoot and are very happy with. We shoot ducks in sand and mud marshes with brackish or salt water. Except for spraying once in a while with WD-40 some of my friends shooting SBE II's clean their guns only once a year.

The Super 90 and the M2 are very much like the SBE but have a 3" chamber, not 3 1/2".

I have a Benelli M2 in 20ga which I like quit a bit - especially with the black composite stock that helps soak what recoil there is.

Until you suggested that it could be use as the last of defense against critter's that have taken exception to being shot poorly I would have said "go for one of the Benelli's" however they all have a quirk you should know about -- that is, they have a tendency to go out of battery just when you least expect it. That is the bolt doesn't lock up or comes "unlocked" - usually without much cause.

I sure hate to carry one thru the thick stuff trying to follow up something with teeth and claws because I've had it happen walking thru standing corn when a stalk bumped against the charging handle.

Not a big deal when it happens bird shooting but not something I'd want to rely on with my skin at risk.

My local dealer tells me the new model Benelli isn't supposed to have this problem.

Indeed the holding Beretta owns Benelli and Franchi too and now tth last Franchis and the Berettas A400 are very similar to Benellis .South Africa has an excellent pouplation of birds and lovely fields to hunt upland game ,i wish to return soon .

The fact that Beretta owns Benelli does't mean the guns are simular. The new 3.5 inch high speed steel shot shells are wicked to shoot in the Benelli Super Black eagle II. My finger behind the trigger finger was a bloody mess in short order this year. I shot the A-400 extrema at sporting clays and was very impressed. The safety is at the front of the trigger guard as opposed to the back of the trigger guard on the super black eagle. this should make a considerable difference for me. The Berettas also have the kick-off system which seems tobe helpful in the reduction of felt recoil. The new high speed steel (1702 fps) are very effective, but the speed of recoil impulse is intimidating. I own four Benelli's and three Beretta,s at present and see a A-400 extrema in my near future. The other option is to use the 3.5 inch heavy shot at 1500 fps which don't kick nearly as bad but cost considerably more than the steel.

quote:

Originally posted by wfh:
The fact that Beretta owns Benelli does't mean the guns are simular. The new 3.5 inch high speed steel shot shells are wicked to shoot in the Benelli Super Black eagle II. My finger behind the trigger finger was a bloody mess in short order this year.

Which "new high speed" shells are you referring to specifically?

I've been shooting 3.5" 1550 fps out of my SBE II for years with nothing but sheer joy.

I receive shotguns all the year to perform tests on my dove hunting farms and write articles mostly for magnum magazine and another publications ,besides that i test many combat shotguns in my shooting school too ver very rare to have malfunctions with Benellis or Berettas .Of course that there are differences between them ,the new a400xplore ultraligth is incredible good shotgun ,i paid for my test gun and now is my personnal auto,but internally they are very similar now . NEW BENELLIS ,FRANCHIS AND BERETTAS ARE VERY SIMILAR ROTATED BOLT ETC

I used Juan's Beretta A400 Xplor Light one day last year while hunting with him in Argentina.

I must say that I have never shot a SBE so I don't know which I would like best but I am certain that the Beretta is a fast pointing, comfortable and reliable shotgun.

If I were in the market for an auto-loader that is one I would have on my "A" list.