A good thing to do for the dog to get used to the sound of a shot is reload some cartdriges ( even handgun ones ) with just the primer, and every time before you feed him, you make a shot, playing and praising him a lot. Then the pup associate the shot with food and fun.



When you start to hunt with him, gradualy raise the calibers. I usually starts with a 28 ga. , and when all the training is done, the dog can stand for 12 ga. with no problem.



At 30 yds, the .410 3" is effective for wingshooting, but requires a lot of knowledge and experience from the shooter.

I�ve seen at pigeon hunt�s, people with 12 ga. making 4 shots for one bird, and a guy with .410 hitting 30 pigeons in a roll.

One more mark against the .410 is the cost of shells. Last time I checked they ran double to triple the cost of comparable 20 gauge shells! That would make up for the price of a 'cheap' gun really fast.

Personally, the .410 is an excellent snake charmer, well on par with shot loads from a .38 or .45 colt, and a .410/.45 colt Contender or knockoff is a nice truck gun, but nothing more. Just my $.02 though...I would never encourage anyone to not buy another gun, just make it a more useful one!

CDH

It has been many years since I used a 410 but I do have to say that in my area (and I used to live in upstate NY) the shells never were cheap and in particular, the 3" shells. (I'm 74 and haven't used a 410 in over 50 years or more) Certainly I agree that when they reach the cost of 20 ga. shells, the time comes to take another look.

You are right on about the 410 as a snake gun. We had lots of copperheads and since they liked to lie right up against the house foundation in early warm sun (usuallly in Spring) my mother at an early age appointed me to shoot them with a 410 rather than my father with a 12 which also had a tendency to blast mortar and make holes that didn't exist before! (When I was old enough to have a pistol I think I was still better at blowing a snake's head off with a 410 than I ever was with any pistol from a 22 up to a 45ACP)

Con,



We not only trained my hunting partners Britnney with a 410, we both hunt quail with one.



For Put and Take quail, in the woods, shots cannot be taken at greater than 25 yds.



We both use reloads, 2 1/2" .410's with 1/2oz of shot # 7 1/2".



His shotgun is a Merkel 360 .410 sxs, w/28" barrels fixed chokes, bored lite skeet (.003)and light IC (.007). Mine is a Rizzini Upland O/U .410, w/ 27" barrel, screw chokes, I used cyl & IC.



Both guns are deadly under 25 yds.



I have fired more than 50k rounds as a competitive Sporting Clays shooter. My partner has more than 100K rounds as a competitive trap shooter.



Experts in shotgunning? Yes. Deadly with a 410. Yes, but for pen raised birds only.



Wild birds rate a move up to a 28 gauge. We have both.

If you can afford only one upland gun, then get a 28 gauge. If you go with a 410, for put and take, practice alot, and you will do fine.



Quail do not require a 12 gauge. If you must use a 12 consider 7/8's oz of shot. In other words an International trap load works fine.



I detest cheap shotguns. But you don't have to spend 4k, to get a good gun. With some shopping a good lightweight 410 or 28 (sxs or O/U) can be had for well under 2K.



I mean, how much did the dog cost? Put and take birds usually cost $3. a pop. We hunt quail every week. Put out 2 dozen, every week, for a season that runs from October 1 through March 31.



Trouble with most 12's is they are swingers. Quail like grouse and woodcock require a poker. A poker usually weighs under 6 lbs. A swinger is over 7 lbs.



Have fun, and good hunting. And a Brittney is a great dog to hunt over.



Bob

Shadow,
I'm in Australia so locating a 28g gun and ammunition is almost an act of futility, believe me I've tried! I absolutely agree that a 12g isn't required on quail. On our last trip a friend brought a video camera and it was enlightening to see exactly how close birds were being engaged. Birds would rise within 5 meters of the dog and be down well within 20 meters. Clincher for me regarding a shotgun was a trip to the local gunstore. It seems Fabarm will be releasing a 20g SxS this coming year built on a 20g frame. Exciting thing is that it will be available with lots of options which means I'll finally be able to get a 20g SxS with double triggers, 28" fixed choke barrels, English straight stock and a splinter style forend, at an affordable price!
Cheers...
Con

Con,
Good to hear about the 20 of your dreams. I am a big 20 gauge fan and have as many of them as I do 12's. I will grab the 20 on almost any occasion, from ringneck pheasant to chukar to quail. My 28 gauge is my favorite on quail. Any of the shotguns in question can be used to with good results training your dog.