Are the good ole days of quail hunting gone forever?

Not in my areas here in CA, it's been a spectacular year on California quail and mountain quail.

With the moisture of the last few years the hatches have been excellent and I'm still finding coveys of CA quail of over 100 birds.

In Missouri, I would have to say yes the good old days are gone. Brush clearing and an increase in coyotes, hawks, foxes and feral cats are all subtracting from the habitat and security of wild quail here.

We still have some areas here in the Ozarks where everything is still ok but the problem with hunting quail in the Ozarks is that after the initial bust up of the covey you are probably going to have to wade a creek and climb the next ridge to find the singles.

Much the pity. There is no finer hunt than one spent working a wild quail covey or three. There is no finer day afield than following a Brittany or Spaniel resulting in half a dozen quail in your vest.

I believe the good ole days are long gone for bobwhites in the southeast unless you want to shoot pen raised birds at a preserve or pseudo plantation style hunt. Some of that can somewhat resemble wild bird hunting but I'm afraid most of it is more like a bad tourist trap for people that have never hunted wild birds.

SH

Yes, I was referring to the Bobwhite. What are you guy's theories on it. I don't believe it is totally habitat because I have a big ranch in Northwestern OK that is essentially the same as it was 100 years ago. Only difference is now there are barely any quail except on exceptional years. 15 years ago you could find 20-30 coveys a day every day.

Even in areas where the habitat has remained virually unchanged the populations of quail are way down. Not only do they have to worry about snakes, birds of prey, racoons, foxes, and bobcats but coyotes continue to become more and more numerous in the southeast.

SH

Last year we had a bumper crop of bobs and blues on the ranch in N/W Oklahoma. This year you have to really work to find a covey. Mother nature was also pretty hard on our pheasant population too.
Here in West Texas it is the same. Last year I had quail everywhere and a good mix of both bobs and blues. I am seeing more bobs right now than anything. The past 3 years have been great bird hunting. Just a normal cycle on the places I hunt

TxBR,
Do you really believe it is a normal cycle??? Yeah, we had good birds in NW OK last year too but it was the first year in a long time and this year is dismal. We also had good birds in Snyder, Tx as well, this year poor as well.

In the old bird mecca of Burkburnet I have not seen a 20 covey day sine early 90's. Use to be common EVERY year.

Now days I look forward to the years like last year that I would have considered mediocre in the 70's.

Our country around Jacksboro, TX always had a stable bird population (never extreme in good or bad) until the mid 90's. Now it does your heart good to see a covey anytime around there on any year!!!

I think the bobwhite is circling the darain and if we don't do something they will be gone.

I know that fire ants are causing the most destruction on quail within 100 miles east and south of me here in Big Spring. Where there are no ants,like around my hunting areas, quail have been great except this year. Those 3 heat waves and extreme dry conditions pretty well did the hatches of all birds in from what I have seen. I don't know what area you are hunting in Ok. I hunt east of Guymon. Our birds have been great up there for the past 4 years with last year peaking. I haven't even busted one up there this season except pheasant. With the right moisture they will return.
We had something like this back in the late 70's early 80's too. We always had a pretty good mix of blues and bobs. By the Fall you couldn't find a blue anywhere. A bad drought played hell on our birds for about 3 years.
It has cycled around again.

I am convinced it is the predator population that has quail depleted. Anyone else got an opinion on this?

On the old home place in AL it's a combination of changes in farming practices (no more hedgerows and heavy pesticides) and a dramatic increase in predators, both coyotes and the raptors.

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:
I am convinced it is the predator population that has quail depleted. Anyone else got an opinion on this?

There are three very important factors in quail numbers: (1) weather, (2) weather, and (3) weather. The fourth and fifth most imporatant factors behind weather are weather and weather.

Predators are about the same as always and not all that significant to overall quail numbers. Agricultural practices are a significant influence, with CRP helping considerably. Now that Azodrin and Bidren are off of the market (used on cotton and corn) all bird populations are doing a little better.

But rainfall during nesting season, which translates into both hatching moisture and insects and seeds for forage, is the all-important qualifier. At least this is true in Texas-Oklahoma. I can't speak to why Southern quail have declined, other than presumably land use changes.

quote:

There are three very important factors in quail numbers: (1) weather, (2) weather, and (3) weather. The fourth and fifth most imporatant factors behind weather are weather and weather.

Stonecreek,
I believe weather is very very important especially summer rain for year to year variations. But I don't buy for minute that weather has accounted for the long term decline in the bobwhite! I can site too many reasons against and really can't think of one that supports this. Second off, If you believe predator numbers or I should say density are the same today as in the '60's & '70's you are fooling yourself. In Jack Co. Texas, if you saw a coyote or a bobcat in that era it was county news paper material. Now days it is hard to keep them out of your front yard. This is not to mention the population explosion of feral domestic cats. With fur prices being low, coons are also in population explosion. The other day I jumped 2 bobcats w/in 30 minutes of each other in the day while running my bird dogs.

Predators are most assuredly not all of the problem but I believe they definitely contribute their fare share!

If you combine every factor mentioned in every post above and put that on a landscape scale in the Southeastern US that covers most of it. Folks want to just point out one factor responsible for the demise of abundant quail populations but it is all of the factors and probably some more unknowns that have brought the quail population down.

Give every family on welfare a small house trailer to live in and 80 acres of land to farm or trash out and the quail would rebound to some degree I think. Would save the gov't some money too. Don't give em no money!

We will never bring back quail by intensive management on only a few thousand acres of public and/or private land. It has to be like it was in the middle of the last century when there were so many small sloppy farms and junk laying around and stuff growing up and getting burned off every couple of years.

Collectively, the modern day landowner generally cannot afford to manage the farm for quail because they cannot make a profit that way.

During the first 200 years after European Settlement of the eastern U.S., bobwhite populations were probably at an historic and temporary all time high. This was because all the various plant successional stages required for quail were abundantly in place ON A LANDSCAPE SCALE - from bare ground to mature woodlands. These rural settlers trapped like crazy keeping all the mid sized nest predators well in control. Much has changed. There was no fescue grass and skidder ruts and other impediments to keep quail feet from hitting the ground and running. They prefer to run than fly - look and compare their bodies to a dove.

We no longer have the diverse wildflower and weed fields, native grasslands and pastures that produced so many insects that the birds relied on in the summer as their source of protein.

YES the good ole days are over and HUNTABLE populations are as well. A couple of good shots and with two good dogs can knock out the majority of a covey in a couple of afternoons of hunting. The seasons and limits should be shortened out of respect for these wonderful birds as well as from the biological standpoint of population decline in general. Hunting pressure is a factor when any species is in decline.

I used to hunt them in the '60's but now I just like to hear and see a few in the spring and summer. Merg

Interesting to see what the rest of you think. I grew up in east central Oklahoma, and quail hunting was our number one favorite. When I moved to Louisiana in 1961, quail were abundant here, also. However, you can go days without hearing a single quail whistling up a covey call in the evenings now.

It is my contention that modern farming methods such as zero margin cultivation and drastically increasing predator populations have just about done in the native population of quail here. Granted, weather does play a part in it, but the farmers and the feral cats and 'yotes have just about done in Mr. Bob White.

Just my take on it.

John

Something that several of us have been discussing lately and that is the wide spread aireal spraying for boll weevils. I live in the cotton belt and the boll weevil eradication program has been in full swing for a few years now. I'm wondering if when they start spraying in the summer are the chicks eating poisoned bugs and being poisoned themselves? Before the planes start flying we do see coveys but a few weeks afterwards the quail numbers seem reduced. Just a thought thrown out there if this might actually be a cause besides the droughthy conditions we had this past year.

Stonecreek is right on weather is the most important factor.We have more raptors than anywhere I have ever been,not to mention coyotes and now wolves.The worst predator we have are skunks and racoons,which we have killed and trapped to the point that the pheasant hunting has really improved.I see the weather affecting the huns more than anything else.Last spring was wet and cold and by hunting season it was obvious we had at least 4 different hatches.w/regards

Ledvm - Snipe Hunter

When I was a small boy before WW2, we had sizeable coveys of native bobwhites on our property -about 75 miles north of NYC. Despite no discernible changes of habitat and no hunting of them at all we never saw any quail after about 1950. My father and I often speculated on reasons for their disappearance. (I shot hunting farm cats on sight and we had dogs (German Shepherds) that stayed close to the house. There was no crop farming in the area -strictly dairy farm country. Our stone walls always had the same brushy growth and our fields were kept the same.(overgrown,mix of wild grasses) Yet the quail simply disappeared. {I still remember as a child walking through the fields and having quail scurry around. They were that numerous} I hope everyone else has better luck with their bobwhite populations. One theory I have -and I welcome contrary views - is that our native coveys became too inbred because there were no more quail from elsewhere to expand the gene pool and therefore gradually died off. ( I'm not scientifically trained and I guess it shows but it's all I can think of)

It's amazing to hear such similar stories from such diverse places. Look at the states covered by those who have posted so far-basically the four corners of the country...sad.

Let me add mine. I'm 36, my family owns about 500 acres in extreme southewestern Indiana-very near the convluence of the Wabash and Ohio rivers. When I was a boy quail hunting was always good. Between our farm and the neighbors we could always count on lots of coveys. Today, you might jump one small covey and even if we did I doubt I could bring myself to pull the trigger.

I believe the combination of changing farming practices and increases in predator numbers are the chief reason. I personally place more stock on the predator issue than anything-the primary reason being that the numbers of coyotes, raccoons, oppossum, mink and fox are higher than ever. Mainly due to the decline in the fur trade-simply put there is nearly no trapping/fur bearer hunting that takes place anymore.

It is sad because those memories afield with family and those heart-pounding covey rises are some of my sweetest memories. Probably even more than taking my first deer...

Neil A.

I read your post with interest. By "changing farm practices" I assume you mean that post WW2 farming tractors hauling plows were able to come up close to fences or stone walls and therefore eliminate natural cover. I personally think that was a factor in reducing pheasant populations (and the use of combines which eliminated standing corn stalks) in NY so I guess it should apply also to quail. Predators? Perhaps. (I used to argue with my father who had forbidden me to shoot black snakes on the property because they kept down mice and rat populations. I said I often encountered a big black snake sliding in and out of stone wall crevices -and I was darn sure they were not looking for rodents -but for bird nests. (I shot them anyway behind his back) Here's why I'm not sure the "predator" is the reason for bobwhite disappearance. Predators and bobwhite existed for centuries without bobwhite being eliminated. Yet in a space of what was perhaps 15 years on our property, bobwhites disappeared. There couldn't have been such an increase of predators on our property -or even off our property (about 130 acres and surrounded entirely by hundreds of acres of pure country with no dwellings or structures whatever. I would have been shooting them, to put it plain and simple) It has been a mystery to me all my life. ( The disappearance of small green frogs also seems to me like a warning but that's another story)