I have a question for the guys who have been to Argentina to go dove hunting. My father is heading down there in February and we have been having the debate whether to bring a 20 gauge over and under or 20 gauge Auto.

Either with the Over and Under or Auto, your thumb will probably be ruined from breaking open the over/under or feeding shells into the auto.

Which one is better?

Any help would be appreciated though from past high volume dove shooters.

Whatever you shoot better and either way buy a couple of the little rubber things you put on your thumb when you count money -- or just take some adhesive tape with you --- they both work.

Been down there eight times and the only ones that failed regularly were the autos.

Funny, I seem to think I have said that before

I do think it would be easier on the body to open the lever than pumping shells in the magazine by about 1/2; two shots in versus one in the mag at a time.

SierraBravo,
the easiest on the thumb is the semi auto if you use this system:
have the bird boy stand to the side with the shell bag, load your gun all the way full, when you are down 2 or 3 shells just tip the gun to expose the loading port and have the bird boy push in the shells. An alternate method but one that requires good training to be safe is to use 2 guns. When one is empty the bird boy hands you the other that is full. With this system a shooter last season fired 1800 rounds killing 1000 dove in 3 and a half hours. I was loading for him.
If you are going to load yourself then the double gun is easier on the hands.

Good luck.

John

I recognize this advice doesn't/won't apply to first timers or the truely hard core, but there is an alternative which is somewhat akin to the much vaunted and little practiced "abstinence" for teen agers.....simply shoot until you've had enough or it starts to hurt and quit, have a few beers, a nap, whatever, and start again that evening or the next day. For those of us who are aging nicely, be SURE to bring some anti-inflammatories (nsaids) for the shoulders, hands, etc.

BTW, I'm great on giving advice, but have hell following it, especially if it's good for you......

I just spent 5 days at Los Ombues. A few hundred rounds at the sorting clays range adn home convinvced me that by far the most difficult part of the trip was going to be loading. I could shoot far more than I could load. My solution was to take 2 benelli 20ga cordobas and have one of the bird boys load. His thumb was probably fried by the end but I did great. I shot 5000 shells and 3000 birds in 4 days. I would also highly recommend the the EvoShield recoil shirt. I bought two on a whim and threw them in the bag at the last minute. They are BY FAR the very best recoil system I have used and I have tried (my weekend fun is often a 470 or 577 Nitro Express double rifle)

Forget the OU use the semiauto ,here you can expect at least 1000shells a day use a BENELLI or a Beretta 12 with soft loads or better a 20 gauge.

This is a photo of my farm so see the number of birds

Some birds killed by Aaron and Bob McLawhorn in a couple of hours .

I have shot both.

I bagged my 20 ga Citori. There is more recoil. I was firing 2000 rounds a day. It makes a difference.

I also got tendonitis from breaking the gun open so much.

Use the auto.

quote:

3000 birds in 4 days

I have heard of the tremendous opportunities in Argentina. I grew up eating what we killed. What happens to 3000 doves??!! If they are just shot, piled up and discarded as a friend told me is this not a travesty that could cause the demise of a species such as the plight of the American Passenger Pigeon?

I am not an anti hunter by any stretch of the imagination. I love hunting. I love killing too. I hate to waste game. I take it personally every time I lose even a dove.

Andy B

Different outfitters do different thing with the birds. Many if not most are given to the locals. I have personally witnessed pickup truck loads being given to the rough equivalent of a homeless shelter.

These birds breed 5 times a year don't migrate like our birds do here.

You couldn't dent these populations with a gun if you wanted to.

They also destroy 35-40% of the crops.

Wow! Five times a year!! Thats more than I got last year

Is there a gage limit? Could I hunt with my
A-bore, or my P-Bore punt guns? I could kill hundreds every time I set it off!

Andy B

quote:

Wow! Five times a year!! Thats more than I got last year

Perhaps you should spend more time at home......

FYI in the right places in Argentina you can breed just like the doves in Argentina! LOL!

Last year, we took an afternoon off from duck hunting and drove about 2 hours to Argentina Outfitters newest dove location. I shot 1320 doves in less than 3 hours.

It is really hard to explain unless you have actually seen it.

I am in really good shape. However, even for me, the cumulative effect of the recoil after a few days is pretty bad. I got tendonitis one year from breaking my o/u open so much. My right hand swells up and it is difficult to close. Generally, I don't shoot doves for more than 3 days and most of the time but not always I impose a limit on myself of 1,000 per shoot (morning or afternoon). It is simply too hard on the body.

Someone mentioned the EVOSHIELD shirts. They are fantastic. I would also recommend padded batting gloves. Further, I would take some moleskin for use on the trigger finger. Also the white medical tape in appropriate places on the fingers.

Most of the time you will shoot more birds in one day that you will your entire life back home.

We are going in July again.

Everytim I went down there, the birds were picked up and given to the locals. One time I remember they were given to a convent. The whole Isuzu pickup load!!

I gotta ask again after not getting a response. Is there a limit to the size of gun I can use. For a while I attempted to collect punt guns. Before I realized just how much they cost. I have two that are in very good shootable condition. I do not remember the exact muzzle dimensions they are an A-bore and a P-bore. One of them has a muzzle dimension of almost 3 inches and throws about a half pound of shot. They were designed for commercial waterfowlers early in the 1900s and probably used up until the 1950s. They are capable of killing hundreds of geese per shot. They are mounted on the bow of a pirogue and the distance "calculated" so the noise of the gun scares the birds into the air directly into the enormous spread of shot. Wickedly effective.

I see two problems though.
1 How to get enough black powder to Argentina to make them function.
2 The shipping for my pirogue and the laughter from locales might be too much to bear.

Andy B

ii am having dinner with an outfitter from Argentina on Wednesday night at the SCI convention. If you are serious I will ask him. I doing there is any limit.

Still debating getting one or both of these guns through the airport. It would be a travesty to lose either or both. How do you explain to officials in the airport that these cannons with rifle stocks are not weapons of mass destruction?? I hear the horror stories of guys that have marked ammo that matches their rifles in calibers that make a 458 seem like a toy. One of these punt guns would make 10 gage look like a mini-gun.

I only have those two as I found collecting them to be way out of my league cost wise. I stumbled across them and was given an incredibly low price by a close friend.

I have fired them about 3 times each. It is always impressive and a bit scary. I can't imagine any place allowing their use. Although it would be a blast

I was serious the first time I posted, but the more I think about risking loss from the airlines the more I want them to remain safe queens. It is one thing to have insurance for a modern rifle that can be replaced.

Andy B

In theory you are supposed to get a gun permit from an Argentenian Consulate. If you can get the permit and you insure the guns why wouldn't you take them? I will ask David Perez tomorrow night.

The reason to not take them even with insurance is They cannot be replaced!! For any amount of money. It might be fun for a couple shots, but I'd probably have more fun with my sweet sixteen and 7/8 ounce loads.

Andy B

Punt guns would not be allowed according to David Perez who owns Los Chanres.

In Argentina and in Uruguay there is no bag limit for doves (zenaida auricurata) or torcaza as it is call down here. There are yes some bag limits for pigeons, two types of them, the wing spotted and picazuro(this is bigger). At least here in Uruguay.

The difference is, or you bring people to shoot them or the farmers will poison them. Some say that they give them to poor people, sometimes is true sometimes not.

Just imagine this, you shoot some hours under the sun, 4 hunters, 2,000 each make a total of 8,000 doves that have been laying under the sun, usually the ants are ontop them as soon as they fell. Imagine then a ride to the nearest town, and then finding someone willing to take away feathers from 8,000 doves that have been under the sun without being gutted for some hours....

The thing that it's more client friendly to say you are not waisting such amount of birds and that they are given to the poor, this gives some relief to the hunters.

The thing is that they are PEST, there are years when they reproduce more than others, if the Chicago stock market goes up you will have more crops and the doves will reproduce more quickly with such amount of corn to feed from..

I will never understand why I don't enjoy shooting them, I live in a bird hunting paradise and I have chosen the hard way chasing the bloody clever pigs and the few and spooky axis we have here, it seems I am some kind of masoquist

L

My wife and I are going to Argentina to shoot doves for the first time next year. We made some contacts at SCI, but have not booked yet.

Is mid- or late-March a good time? I ask because I would like to hunt free range red stag and boar on the same trip, and that's when the Patagonian stags are roaring.

What is the best area? One hears a lot about Cordoba, but one also hears that it is overcrowded. True?

Do most folks take 20s because of the recoil factor? My wife is rather petite and can handle a 28 perhaps a bit better than a 20. What do folks think of that?

We will take O/Us and I appreciate the loading tips, etc., on this thread. It is hard for me to believe that anyone can shoot 1,000+ doves in one afternoon, but I see from many who have posted that it's possible.

I think we will just shoot at whatever pace we feel comfortable with and not try to set any records!

La Pampa or San Luis are the places to go to combine dove/pigeon/stag. Yes mid to late March is the best time.

There are more dove shooters going to Cordoba than anywhere else but if you tell your outfitter that you want privacy I'm sure he can arrange it. There are many places to shoot alone in Cordoba and no shortage of dove. Not so many pigeon as other provinces.

Most folks do take 20's. 28's are for the smart shooters, it makes the shoot even better and they are oh so sweet little doubles.

The issue in Cordoba is that many outfitters put you on a bus for an hour or 2 and take you to a field where you stay all day long. Then you have the long ride back.

Some outfitters have their own place where there are separate morning and afternoon shoots. There is usually a short ride to the field (5-10 minutes). Sometimes you can walk from the lodge less than 400 yards and shoot.

make sure and ask about that issue.

In good locations, shooting 1,000 rounds in a morning or an afternoon is not a problem. The largest number of rounds that I have personally shot in one afternoon is 1925. I could have shot a hell of a lot more.

I understand from the people we hunt ducks and doves with that March is when the "roar" is on in Patagonia. I have seen their pictures. Great country and nice stags. It isn't New Zealand though.

I would recommend that you contact Rob Mc Andrew at Argentina Outfitters. They can handle all of those hunts and arrange others as well as fishing if you want.I have hunted with them 4 or 5 years in a row. Great outfit.

Thanks, guys. I appreciate the help.

mrlexma,
There are videos of the Argentina dove shoots on youtube. It looks like with 2 autoloaders per shooter and a helper reloading you could shoot 10 to 15 rounds a minute.

I have a question for the Argentina experienced dove shooters. I have several old favorite shotguns with fixed chokes and multiple barrels.
What is the most commonly recommended choke used?
It is hard to tell but in the videos it looks like a modified or improved cylinder would be the most useful.

SR4759,
IMO that is totally personal preference. The shots offered vary through the whole spectrum.

I shoot modified chokes generally. I have from time to time changed to IC when the birds were really close.

FWIW I shoot an O/U with IC and IM chokes screwed in. They are my "go to" choke choices for about 95% of my bird hunting which has ranged from Greater Cans and Egyptian geese on down to doves. The only time I normally switch choke tubes is for really long pass shooting situations or hunting quail over dogs or, God forbid, pen raised birds. Parrots in fruit trees need more open chokes as well.

If you want to kill the maximum number of doves in Argentina you'll probably be better served with a IC choke IF you can get into a close range type situation. In many fields there are both close and long range positions with most in the middle. Ask your guide to put you in a spot that fits your shooting goals. Of course, doves can appear at any range, but in certain spots (where they are landing in the center of a field, for instance) you will have a preponderance of one range over others. All that said, if I was shooting only one choke it would probably be modified. I like to hit them hard and the earred dove will carry a surprising amount of shot. I like that "thwack" sound when you really smack them. If you are not into numbers and really like the "thwack" go to IM or full.

BTW this has been covered in one way or the other above, but if you are not USED to a lot of shotgunning, and especially if you've got some age on you, you should really consider shooting ONLY a case in the AM and the same in the evening or LESS. It will do your arms and shoulders a lot of good and I'm not talking just about bruising (although that can be rather spectacular) but causing tendonitis in your shoulders. Be sure to take some anti-inflammatories if you're older, at a minimum Alleve and something like Celebrex (prescription) is better. You will be amazed how many times you lift that shotgun a day, especially if you're "going for it". I know this sounds crazy but if you don't shoot a LOT and are somewhat older, then before you go to Argentina you should work out by shouldering your shotgun at home, working up to a few hundred times a day minimum.

+1.

Let me add another comment. While it is a pain in the ass, I would take other barrels/chokes. Sometimes the terrain can cause you to need to change. This land is not all flat and it can have a direct impact on the shooting distances.

For example, one day I was placed at the bottom of a hill. If the birds flew over the top of the hill right over the top of the bushes, they were already at least 30-35 yards away! lots of shooting but LONG shots.

Other times, I have been placed in an area carved out of this thick bush. You couldn't even see the birds until they were 18 yards away max. These birds were close. Real close.