I am thinking about planting Giant Sunflowers at my East Texas place. Those get to be 6 to 8 feet tall with flowers that are up to a foot in diameter.
I have heard that people who grow the small variety of sunflowers for oil see lots of dove. I don't know if I should expect those birds to go after the seeds in the Giant variety.
Have any of you tried planting these.
Also, is it likely that deer and pigs will destroy the plants before the birds have a chance at them (come opening of dove season in Sept).

grow them, and run a shredder in stripps about a week before eason starts, then shred some more every week or so and you should have birds all season...

Be aware that doing ANYTHING to attract waterfowl EXCEPT for "normal agricultural practices" can and almost certainly will be considered baiting by the Federal game wardens. That would include selective shredding. I'm not suggesting this is a problem on small tracts that don't draw attention, but I am telling you it is illegal. Upon further research, I have found that you can manipulate crops, etc by shredding, discing, etc FOR DOVES, but not for waterfowl. I don't know if they have changed the regs recently or not, but I was under the mistaken impression that you could not do it for dove hunting. To be clear, you can't do it for waterfowl hunting.

They have ticketed and arrested hundreds of people in Louisiana that I am aware of for hunting over fields that the hunters had no idea were baited, but the landowner/farmer leaving a "little" extra on the ground when he harvested the crops. It is a very close call in many cases, corn and milo naturally spill when being harvested/trucked so it really boils down to how much is there and how the birds react to it. In other words, it is a subjective call on the warden's part, not a situation I prefer to be in.

What Gato states is a fact! ( Damn I hate to admit that )

One year my neighbor planted his whole garden in the giant sunflowers ( no I have no idea why) but the doves Mourning and Eurasian swarmed them....hanging on to the heads to pick seeds. It was incredible to watch there where hundreds.

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BTW, to be clear, you can certainly grow sunflowers to attract birds, (I've deleted my mistake about not being able to shred sunflowers for doves, you can). Chances are you'd have a good dove field/hunt if you simply grew a bunch of sunflowers and let nature take its course.

You have to be REALLY careful if you're hunting over, say, a harvested milo field. If the harvesters spilled a few piles or lines of milo (or corn, etc) then you will be considered to be hunting over a baited field, EVEN if you weren't close to the spills and had no knowledge of them. It is a strict liability law, that is, the hunter is the one who is responsible to determine if he is hunting under a baited condition. This is often difficult, sometimes extremely difficult to do. It is really a BS law, but it is what it is.

quote:

Originally posted by Gatogordo:
It is really a BS law, but it is what it is.

+1

I don't know what all has been said in this thread because I have certain members on ignore, but I know for a fact you can hunt migratory birds and waterfowl over harvested fields that have incidental grain left in them. I have done it for years, and it is NOT considered baiting. You may get a horse's ass of a game warden that tries to bind that, but it won't hold up.

Here is what the State of Texas says, straight off their website:

Baited Area:
Any area where salt, grain or other feed has been placed, exposed, deposited, distributed or scattered, if that salt, grain or other feed could serve as a lure or attraction for migratory game birds to, on or over areas where hunters are attempting to take them. Any such areas will remain a baited area for ten days following the complete removal of all such salt, grain or other feed.

Baiting:
The direct or indirect placing, exposing, depositing, distributing or scattering of salt, grain or other feed that could serve as a lure or attraction for migratory game birds to, on or over areas where hunters are attempting to take them.

There is no way you can take normal agricultural harvest practices and turn it into baiting. (And that term is defined on the TPWD website as well...) The words "placing, exposing, depositing, distributing or scattering" require intent. There is no intent to scatter, place, expose, or any other word during the combining of a corn field, rice field, or otherwise during harvest activities. Period.

quote:

Originally posted by Gatogordo:
BTW, to be clear, you can certainly grow sunflowers to attract birds, you just can't manipulate them to further attract them, such as by shredding. Chances are you'd have a good dove field/hunt if you simply grew a bunch of sunflowers and let nature take its course.

You have to be REALLY careful if you're hunting over, say, a harvested milo field. If the harvesters spilled a few piles or lines of milo (or corn, etc) then you will be considered to be hunting over a baited field, EVEN if you weren't close to the spills and had no knowledge of them. It is a strict liability law, that is, the hunter is the one who is responsible to determine if he is hunting under a baited condition. This is often difficult, sometimes extremely difficult to do. It is really a BS law, but it is what it is.

Absolutely not true, as long as the grain was spilled during "coommon agricultural practices" like loading a grain truck or accidentall spillage from a combine...

also WATERFOWL regulations and DOVE regulations are very different.

Absolutely true. Try it on with the Federal game wardens and you'll see. Otherwise all grain/bait would be "accidentally" spilled.

From Federal Baiting regulations:

quote:

Baiting is the direct or indirect placing, exposing, depositing, distributing, or scattering of salt, grain, or other feed that could lure or attract migratory game birds to, on, or over any areas where hunters are attempting to take them. A baited area is any area on which salt, grain, or other feed has been placed, exposed, deposited, distributed, or scattered, if that salt, grain, or feed could serve as a lure or attraction for migratory game birds.

The 10-Day Rule and Distance

The 10-day rule recognizes that removing bait does not remove the lure created, and that doves will habitually still be attracted to the same area even after the bait is gone. A baited area remains off limits to hunting for 10 days after all salt, grain, or other feed has been completely removed.

The only real difference between dove and waterfowl regulations is that you can manipulate vegetation for dove hunting, but you can't (except natural) for waterfowl. If you do it for doves, then that field would be baited as far as waterfowl is concerned.

I've had quite a few friends, including a judge or two and at least one sheriff ticketed by the feds for hunting baited fields. Some knew it, some didn't.

I gotta figure this one out soon. The field I most enjoy dove hunting may likely be drowning in sunflowers this year. I am allowed to duck hunt there also. Early Teal season will find a dozen or so on one of the ponds.

My goodness. Thanks to all for the responses.

I thought that my question would yield a simple answer.

Never expected to need a team of lawyers to figure this out.


I am not sure if I am now confused our just unable to clearly understand all that was provided.

Bob:

I was wrong when I posted that cutting the sunflowers for doves would be illegal. I think, but am not sure, that was the case when the laws were first enforced. However, in 1999 (after my digging into the ins and outs of the regs) they apparently changed the rules to allow vegetation manipulation FOR DOVES.

In short, you can plant and then shred sunflowers for DOVES, but not for waterfowl hunting.

quote:

Originally posted by Gatogordo:
Absolutely true. Try it on with the Federal game wardens and you'll see. Otherwise all grain/bait would be "accidentally" spilled.

From Federal Baiting regulations:

quote:

Baiting is the direct or indirect placing, exposing, depositing, distributing, or scattering of salt, grain, or other feed that could lure or attract migratory game birds to, on, or over any areas where hunters are attempting to take them. A baited area is any area on which salt, grain, or other feed has been placed, exposed, deposited, distributed, or scattered, if that salt, grain, or feed could serve as a lure or attraction for migratory game birds.

The 10-Day Rule and Distance

The 10-day rule recognizes that removing bait does not remove the lure created, and that doves will habitually still be attracted to the same area even after the bait is gone. A baited area remains off limits to hunting for 10 days after all salt, grain, or other feed has been completely removed.

The only real difference between dove and waterfowl regulations is that you can manipulate vegetation for dove hunting, but you can't (except natural) for waterfowl. If you do it for doves, then that field would be baited as far as waterfowl is concerned.

I've had quite a few friends, including a judge or two and at least one sheriff ticketed by the feds for hunting baited fields. Some knew it, some didn't.

I have hunted ducks within 15 yards of spilled grain WITH the game wardens before, and since it was done during a "normal agricultural practice" it was deemed okay YMMV

Were they Federal? State game wardens usually, but not always, have more common sense than the Feds.

One pile of grain "spilled" is one thing, but if there are very many such piles the Feds will damn sure ticket you.