I'm looking at getting a new 12 guage soon and am needing some advice. I'm looking for a reliable semi automatic 12 guage that can go up to 3 1/2" wearing camo. Using for pheasant, ducks geese and the occasional turkey. I have connections so price isn't much of a factor. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Last year I bought a Benelli (sp?) super black eagle. I really like it, I have shot doves, ducks, sharpies, Huns, a sage grouse and two turkeys with it and it has functioned great using all shell lengths. I am a O/U guy but this has been a great auto. I think it was around $1600 in the camo finsh.

That's one of the options I was looking atHeld one the other day and it fit quite nice.

I have an original SBE (as well as a M2 20ga) and love it. Their inertia system is the way to go. They aren't cheap but they last. Mine goes in the field 50 to 75 days a year chasing ducks and geese and I have never had a problem in 5 years, not one miscycle. I've had it mud, sand, ice, etc. in the action and it worked great.

I would never own anything else.

My son shoots a Benelli that he's generally had good success with, but for the last 25+ years I've been shooting the same Beretta, having poured thousands of shells through it while hunting ducks, geese, pheasants, doves, quail, sage grouse, and other game birds. I've only had one or two misfires, out of many thousands of shots at birds. This gun is testament that you don't need a 3 1/2" gun for about 99% of bird shooting, as it has a 2 3/4", 26" improved cylinder barrell, and I've been shooting it since before choke tubes existed. The only birds I don't hunt with it are turkeys, where I do shoot a 3" 12 gauge.

I think if you get a 3" gun you'll find much more utility in that gun than you'd ever realize with a 3 1/2" gun. In fact, I'd go so far as to say that a 2 3/4" gun is far superior to a 3 1/2" gun for anything except pass shooting at longer ranges. Handles better, shoots better, costs a lot less to shoot, and puts down anything you can ask for out to 50 yards with great reliability. The rationale that you need a 3 1/2" gun to shoot birds is a lot more about marketing hype than it is about anything to do with actually killing birds in 99% of cases.

I think you'll be fine with a Beretta, Benelli, Browning and several other makes, but I wouldn't make the mistake of buying a 3 1/2" gun if you intend to use it for more than just shooting waterfowl at long ranges.

I have 3 Benelli Super Black Eagles. They are all great.

I just got back yesterday from Argentina on a duck/dove hunt. I fired 1,200 rounds in my SBE with out a single issue even in the cold weather. My oldest son fired a similar number of rounds with 1 recycling failure.

I would highly recommend them.

With the Benelli's, it ain't a matter of "if" it failed, it is a matter of "When" and it will.

I have a total of 6 Benelli's. I have the 3 SBE's referred to above. I also have 2 M-90 20 gauges and a 20 gauge Cordoba.

I have experienced virtually zero problems with the SBE's.

We shoot the 20 gauges for high volume dove in Argentina. Generally we fire 2000 rounds a day each.

We do experience some jamming on the M-90's when they get dirty. A quick cleaning and lubrication corrects this instantly. The Cordoba on the other hand was a nightmare initially. It jammed virtually every shot. I was not happy and sent it back to the factory. They repaired it. I just took it to Argentina for the second time. I shot 3374 times before the first recycling failure. It was very dirty at the time. A cleaning and lubrication corrected this. On the last day, it was very cold. 22 degrees. It started jamming again. I wiped off a little excess oil and manually worked the action a hundred or so times and it worked perfectly again. I suspect the bird boys had a bit too much oil and due to the cold, it thickened which causes the problem.

The lodges I use in Argentina all have Benelli's. I think that says something for them.

quote:

Originally posted by Jim Kobe:
With the Benelli's, it ain't a matter of "if" it failed, it is a matter of "When" and it will.

What a load of crap.....

I've shot thousands of shells thru my SBEII with maybe a dozen failure to feeds.....and it's only because I don't clean it enough and I hunt the salt a lot. Try that with a gas-operated.

I will say this, my bud's bud is an aftermarket shotgun choke/spring/accessory manufacturer and he says the gun to get is the Extrema 2.

Not me.....I'm sticking with inertia and Benelli(FWIW I have a Stoeger M2000 as a backup which is also inertia-driven and shoots like a champ for 1/4 the price).

Norton:

I agree with you.

Excepting for the Cordoba, the only time we have a problem is when they are dirty. Those 20 gauges are probably shot 6,000 to 6,500 times per trip each. Any gun is going to get dirty with that volume of shooting.

The Cordoba had a issue which was corrected at the factory. Since then it has been as good as any.

When the high volume dove lodges in Argentina use them, that tells me a hell of a lot.

My overunders have NEVER failed in 7 trips to Argentina. They DON'T have to be cleaned after a couple thousand rounds. Been there, done that.

quote:

Originally posted by Jim Kobe:
My overunders have NEVER failed in 7 trips to Argentina. They DON'T have to be cleaned after a couple thousand rounds. Been there, done that.

He didn't ask about O/Us....of course they never fail, just like a revolver.

With all due respect, my girlfriend was shooting a Beretta 28 o/u with me. About every 50 rounds the chambers had to be scrubbed or they would not eject. The empties had to be manually removed.

Same thing was true with my Citori 20 which is why I got rid of it.

I would also add that the bird boys carry a kit of chamber brushes for this very problem. Based upon that, I would have to think it is a common problem especially for those shooting those lousy CAZA shells.

From my experience, they are more difficult than the Benelli's.

As I mentioned above I am a O/U guy. That said, the man wants a 3 1/2" semi 12. I bought my SBEII last year, so being the new toy, it got more use then just waterfowl. Did not shoot thousands of rounds like some here have but it did shoot a few hundred between hunting and clays, no issues. As far as an auto goes that won't jam, this seems to be a real contender. Also, for a 3 1/2" 12 gauge it had some feel in my hands. Not saying it would swing like a purdy 28, but not bad either. Would definitely buy the gun again if I needed a duck/goose gun that could do some utility work too.

I don't question the wisdom of buying a Benelli at all, but I do question whether a 3 1/2" gun would be better than a 3". You really don't 'need' a super magnum 3 1/2" gun for anything except very long range shooting, and really more for geese than anything else. For turkeys, pheasants and just about anything except waterfowl, I believe a 3 1/2" gun is a handicap, not a benefit.

Of oourse, I do almost all of my hunting with a lowly 2 3/4" gun, so what do I know?

I shoot 3 1/2 at turkeys. The theory being the more shot in the area the more of a chance you have. It it better? I don't know. I seem to kill them no matter what I use.

I did take 20 rounds of 3 1/2 inch with me to New Zealand. I shot geese and swans. I do have to say that they packed a serious punch on those birds. It was most impressive. The guide even commented.

quote:

Originally posted by CAelknuts:
I don't question the wisdom of buying a Benelli at all, but I do question whether a 3 1/2" gun would be better than a 3". You really don't 'need' a super magnum 3 1/2" gun for anything except very long range shooting, and really more for geese than anything else. For turkeys, pheasants and just about anything except waterfowl, I believe a 3 1/2" gun is a handicap, not a benefit.

Of oourse, I do almost all of my hunting with a lowly 2 3/4" gun, so what do I know?

I agree that the need for 3.5 is questionable(coming from someone who shoots them almost exclusively).....I seem to kill just as many with 3" on waterfowl.........and as far as turkey and other birds, they're not even part of the equation since you're shooting lead, correct? Anyone shooting 3.5" at upland needs to rethink it, and I've NEVER used my SBEII while upland hunting.

Norton makes a good point about shooting turkeys. You're shooting at a small target, the head and neck, and should be using lead or even better, hevishot or one of the other denser than lead loads.

Between birds I've shot myself and guided other friends to, I've been in on nearly 100 gobblers being shot, and I've never seen the need for a 3 1/2" load. Far more important is to shoot a tightly choked gun that hits where you aim it, and to shoot quality loads. My personal load of choice is a 3", 1 1/2 ounce load of Hevishot #4s' and even that is a lot more than necessary. My son shot his 6 or 8 toms with a 20 guage, and never had the slightest problem.

CAelknuts,
I have had the same experience with turkeys. Those heavy shot 4 work awesome. Infact the one turkey that i did mention taking this past spring was with the gun in question shoot the 3" 4 you are reffering too. Also, when I was a kid I shot not as many as your son, but 3 toms in can remember with my little browning 20 O/U. I don't seem to remember any wounded birds, just being deliberate wih my shots, which we should be regardless of gauge. To be completely honest, I have not hunted with the 3 1/2" load yet as I did not goose hunt last year. I did feed some through it out of curiosity to see how it would cycle, seemed to work great. Out of curiosity, wouldn't most bird hunters do almost all their shooting with 2 3/4" loads? I know I do if for no other reason then dove, quail and pheasants are the bread and butter of my bird season. I guess a pure waterfowl or turkey man could be the exception. Where in Ca by the way as I see we are both golden state natives?

I agree mostly with what has been said about the 3 1/2" loads not being very practical, and they cost a bit more too. The exception in my opinion is shooting crippled ducks or geese on the water. Among the guys I duck hunt with, we pretty much all shoot 3" regularly, but we usually try and have a spare gun that shoots 3 1/2 to quickly finish off the wounded, before they can get away (damned steel shot crappy, good for nothin, waste of money.....). For the rest of the birds, excepting Turkey, 2 3/4.

I only shoot pumps, at least until I move up to a real nice O/U, but I've seen a bunch of the Benelli's, and they seem pretty darn nice. I remember the first I ever saw. The guy who had it just dropped his hand real quick, and stopped it real quick, and the action locked open. Try that with an 11/87. Best of luck.

Sevenxbjt, I live in El Dorado Hills, which is a bit east of Sacramento. As far as hunting birds, I shoot ducks and pheasants in the Butte Sink and turkeys about 30 minutes north of where I live (on a cowranch in the foothills, same place I hunt blacktails). Doves are 30 mintues southwest of where I live.

Daniel, if you're shooting crippled birds on the water and want an incredible load for it, get some hevishot in #8s, they do make a trap and skeet load, and NOTHING works as well as that, though lead trap loads are a close second. I hunt ducks in a tougher marsh habitat than most California hunters and have never relied on steel to kill birds on the water. Regardless of what load you shoot for cripples, nothing is more important than having an excellent labrador retriever. With one of those, it you don't need to shoot many birds on the water.

Got to thinking and the 3 1/2" maybe isn't all that important. Especially when benelli's m2 a 3" is a few hudred bucks less than the benelli. Thought the option to go 3/12" might be nice just in case..

quote:

Originally posted by 7mm. guy:
Got to thinking and the 3 1/2" maybe isn't all that important. Especially when benelli's m2 a 3" is a few hudred bucks less than the benelli. Thought the option to go 3/12" might be nice just in case..

Don't sell yourself short.....get the SBEII or Extrema 2......3.5" makes sense with steel.....doesn't mean you have to shoot them all the time.

quote:

This gun is testament that you don't need a 3 1/2" gun for about 99% of bird shooting, as it has a 2 3/4", 26" improved cylinder barrell, and I've been shooting it since before choke tubes existed.

You're older than I thought and that makes your Beretta a real collector's item, since you've been shooting it since before 1959. (Model 59 Winchester with choke tubes)

quote:

I agree mostly with what has been said about the 3 1/2" loads not being very practical, and they cost a bit more too. The exception in my opinion is shooting crippled ducks or geese on the water. Among the guys I duck hunt with, we pretty much all shoot 3" regularly, but we usually try and have a spare gun that shoots 3 1/2 to quickly finish off the wounded, before they can get away (damned steel shot crappy, good for nothin, waste of money.....). For the rest of the birds, excepting Turkey, 2 3/4.

I partially agree. Instead of a spare shootin 3 1/2 why not have a gun with a magazine disconnect and a couple boxes of Hevi-Shot? You will be amazed how far out #6 will cleanly kill UNinjured birds!!

There used to ba a company called ACTIV INDUSTRIES. They loaded 1-3/4 oz in a 2-3/4 inch shell. Those loads were hell on turkey--they were lead. GameBore acquired Activ and the fantastic all plastic hulled shells disappeared. Somewhere I still got a box or two......

Ask GatoGordo what I think about the usefulness of 3-1/2 inch shells! Except for 10ga of course!

Andy B

I haven't shot a 3.5 inch steel load out of mine in probably 4 years. 3 inch 1 1/8 oz steel BB's at 1560 fps with the right choke are deadly out to 50 yards even on big canadas. Most of my shots on geese seem to be between 15 and 30 yards so i shoot a lot of 3 inch 1's as well. Used to shoot 3.5 inch for turkeys but the last two years i've used my 20ga for them.

When i bought my SBE i had big plans to shoot 3.5 inch but they got so expensive I started shooting 3 inch not long after I bought it and had great results.

Buy some Fasteel to go with that new shotgun and you won't be sorry.

quote:

Originally posted by Gatogordo:

quote:

This gun is testament that you don't need a 3 1/2" gun for about 99% of bird shooting, as it has a 2 3/4", 26" improved cylinder barrell, and I've been shooting it since before choke tubes existed.

You're older than I thought and that makes your Beretta a real collector's item, since you've been shooting it since before 1959. (Model 59 Winchester with choke tubes)

Gato, you got me there! No, my gun isn't that old, I just didn't remember that you could get choke tubed barrels back around 1980. My Beretta is an old A302, nothing special or collectible. I've only been shooting that gun for nearly 30 years. I've often thought about getting a new shotgun, but why? Mine kills tons of birds when I do my job, despite being a lowly 2 3/4" with a short barrel. The bluing is in poor shape, a little rust here and there, beat up wood with a chunk missing from the butt, dented vent rib...and I still wouldn't trade it as it does the intended job very well indeed.

The reason I'm not a fan of 3 1/2" guns is that I don't believe they handle as well as smaller and lighter shotguns that are also shorter. That very long reciever adds weight and the gun doesn't swing as well, unless you're talking about pass shooting at longer ranges. Perhaps it's just me, but I prefer a short and light shotgun that swings quickly and points well.

As for Greyducks comment about using a 3 1/2" for shooting Canadians, heck I shoot those with that little gun too, and I don't shoot real large shot. Hevishot in #2s will kill honkers just fine, and we've even shot a number of them with 4s.

quote:

Originally posted by CAelknuts:
The reason I'm not a fan of 3 1/2" guns is that I don't believe they handle as well as smaller and lighter shotguns that are also shorter. That very long reciever adds weight and the gun doesn't swing as well, unless you're talking about pass shooting at longer ranges. Perhaps it's just me, but I prefer a short and light shotgun that swings quickly and points well.

.

Ever hold an SBEII? Nothing feels better in the hands.....and I don't have much trouble swinging mine with a 28" barrel. Doubt your gun is lighter than the SBEII. To each their own, you won't get an argument from me about 2 3/4 doing the job over decoys close in. For the sea ducks and late season divers around here I like having 3.5 #2.....early on in the season I'm shooting 3" #4 on decoying puddlers and jump shooting teal anyway.