I am always running into blue grouse while still hunting deer and elk in the timber. In Utah they may legally be taken with a handgun or a shotgun - which rules out headshooting them with a rifle. They always take off at a very close distance, and 20 yards would be a very long shot. I have hunted them with a 12 guage before, but I would like to try it with a .410. The one I own is super light (and can be taken down) and would be a joy to carry around the mountains. My 12 guage is very long and very heavy. My .410 has a 20" barrel with a full choke. I have hunted most upland game (except grouse) with a .410 and am very familiar with its limitations. I would only use 3" loads on game and shots would be well under 20 yards. My question is this: What size of shot would work the best (4,6, or 8) in the .410 on grouse? I was leaning toward the 6 but I am curious as to what you would recommend.

I'd go with the 6's for sure. Pattern a few beforehand so you know what to expect.

I have a little .410 that may do some duty on blue's too.

The very best load you can use in a .410, for the situation as you describe it, would be either a skeet or sporting clays load. The shot is harder than the shot used in 3" hunting loads and by using #8 shot you will have a reasonably dense pattern - for a .410.

The key things are (1) getting close and (2) pattern your gun for point-of-impact so you can be sure of getting the most pellets into the head of sitting birds.

If you don't believe this, buy a box of your "best" 3" ammo and a box of a 2 1/2" competition load and shoot a couple of each on paper at 15 and 20 yards and then count the actual number of pellet hits in the 20" core of the pattern.

Win AA in 8s. They are just about the best out there for .410. I use them for opening day dove and switch to 28ga Win AA for later season pass shooting. PMC also makes a very good target load in .410 My Red Label won't eject them so I don't use those.

7.5's of course, plenty for 20 yards and better density by a long ways than the 6 or god forbid bastard 4's.

I have been reloading my 2 1/2" shells with 15 gr of H110, CCI 209, and a SP410 wad. In my 870 with mod choke. With # 6 shot I get 81% patterns at 30 yards. The speed is 1300 fps. Same load with 7 1/2's is 66% and
8 1/2's is 67 %.
I have used this load on Blues out to 30 yards and it does well.
Ron

I'm with Ron... in my 28 and 410, I tend to lean towards 6's. Plenty of energy to kill with a few pellets, and with the long/narrow shot string 410's tend to have, less cripples, it's either hit or miss...

This is what drillings are made for. Thats what to get. Nothing is as good, not even close.

There are two elements to pattern efficiency in all shotguns regardless of gauge: pattern density and pellet energy. But more important than that is how your gun patterns the load and size shot you are using. The only way to determine this is through patterning your gun with your intended load or anticipated loads to see what they are doing. Individual guns do differ in their ability to handle certan shot sizes, and 6s won't beat 7 1/2s in every .410. Sixes patterning better would tend to be an exception rather than the rule in .410s.

From the standpoint of pattern density and pellet energy at the short ranges you will be shooting (20 yds would be a long shot), 7 1/2s in a 3" shell ought to be the ticket. And the fact that this load will open up faster than the 2 1/2 inch competition loads will would be more of a help than a hinderance at these short ranges...Rusty.

i use my .410 for grouse just about exclusively, i've tried federal 2 1/2", federal 3", win. 2 1/2" and win. 3". in several pellet sizes and for grouse you can't go wrong with win. 3" #7 1/2. I use these same loads sometimes on the 16yrd trap range and they'll kill clay birds too!!!! Don't even cosider 2 1/2" shells, i've had a couple of birds try and walk off after shotting them with a 2 1/2" shells. ( at about 20 yds.) there wasn,t enough pellets in the air to do the job right.

Gee, it's nice to see so many people shooting a .410. I've used .410s exclusively for the past couple of decades and cannot disagree with much said above. It has been some time since I've shot blues in Nevada so I'm somewhat out of date there. That said, I shoot AA 2.5" target loads of #9 hard shot, WAA41 Winchester wads and around 13.5 grains of WC-820 surplus powder. This is mostly on dove but I use the same load for pheasants. Overall, I load and shoot around 10,000 rounds annually. I've tried the target AA #8.5 shot but didn't end up having much confidense in that load. With such a small load of shot, I believe you need the maximum number of pellets available n your load that will break bones within your intended range. For larger birds (pheasant size), it is very difficult to kill over 30 yards with a .410 unless you have the bird overhead or crossing. For dove, you can kill easily at longer distance with #9s. The only thing I haven't used #9s on is turkey. There I used #6 shot in a 3" shell. The problems with 3" shells are they are difficult to load and are much slower. I'll take the 2.5" shell with a faster load of #9s every time.

Dumb question. Why not just pack a scoped .22 pistol? Thats what I do

I too use a 22 pistol with open sights,I have killed more with it than I have with a shotgun.I am not above taking a body shot if I cant get a good head shot.They are pretty easy to kill.Once you get them in a tree its like shooting ducks on a pond.w/regards

I decided to use a Model 42 this past October as my only bird gun. I don't think I took one less woodcock or grouse - or had to fire more shots - than in previous years. I used the Remington 3" shell in #7.5. I pattern tested these at 25 yds against the same in #6 and the results were a 18" no-fly circle with #6 and a nearly 21" no-fly circle with #7.5. I was looking for pheasant sized holes, which skews things even more toward the #7.5s if considering smaller birds.

But my '42 is choked modified. So I would suggest that you pattern choke your full choke barrel with both shot sizes at your maximum likely distance.

FWIW, Remington .410 ammo is, by reputation, fast stuff. Velocity of the 11/16 oz load is listed as 1135, but I chronographed my batch at over 1250 fps. I found them as effective as any larger shotgun on pheasants to 25 yds.

Sam

I also use a .410 for blue and ruffed grouse here in Utah. My .410 is a T/C Contender with a 10" barrel. I have had excellent results with the Win. 3" loaded with #6. Our small game regulations allow handguns for grouse, but only with loads of at least 1/2 oz. of shot. A .22 would be nice but is not legal here.