Friend just purchased the TC Triumph & is shooting T-7 pellets with T-7 209 primers.

We had to take the breach plug out & clean due to crud ring after 1 shot. It was like cement.

Anybody have any luck with T-7 pellets in Triumph. What primers are you using ?

I don't have a Triumph, but I shoot 777 in a Knight with the Triple 7 primers and have no problem at all. How many shots did you shoot before swabbing ??? I wipe with a damp patch after every shot and do not have that issue at all.

i bought a triumph a few months back,and had the same problem. after the first shot i couldn't hardly beat the bullet down the last 1 1/2.it did the same thing with 777,pyrodex,shockey's gold.i shot 777,winchester and cci 209's ,it didn't matter i still had a crud ring.i called TC they would only say 'clean it after every shot'. this makes know sense ,i can shoot anything i want in my CVA 10 times without geting a crud ring. TC offers know real reason why it does it.


i found a product called ULTRA BORE COAT , its a ceramic coating that you coat the bore with.it has helped it ,i can now shoot 5-6 times in a row before it starts to crud. one thing it sure does make cleaning a breeze.2 patch with solvent and the bore is clean.

it cost 50.00 for a kit that will do 2 ML'S. its very simple to do ,just follow the directions in the kit. you can check it out here
http://www.ultracoatingsinc.com/index.html i still think there is a problem with the breech plug design on these guns.i've seen encore,omega and triumph owwners with the same problem.what i don't understand is why they are all not the same.i have talked to every so called expert i can find ,but haven't been able to prove what really causes the crud ring.

I use loose T7 in my Triumph. But I do spit patch between shots and have no problems at all. T7 is terrible for making that crud ring in all my muzzleloaders if I don't patch between shots, and pellets are the worst. I gave all the pellets I had away, it was so bad. As far as one gun going 5-6 shots before crud build up is a problem and the Triumph only one. I'll bet if you measure, the Triumph has a tighter bore than the CVA does. There is no industry standard as to what a .50 cal should measure, there can be quite a variation in actual bore size. I also only use small rifle primers in my inlines, 209's are terrible for fouling the barrel in comparison.

I wanted to bring this one back to the top to hear any follow-up. I am thinking about my first inline and I like the look and feel of the Triumph, but I want to make sure that the rifle is actually better than the time-tested Omega.

Any additional thoughts/comments?

I still love mine. The biggest advantage I prefer over the Omega is it's easier to clean. The barrel tipping down gives you more room to work while cleaning. My buddies Omega is very tight for space between the scope and the stock in comparison. If you completely disassemble your muzzleloader for cleaning it's no advantage. I leave it assembled and prefer the extra space. The speed breech is also a handy feature for several different reasons.

My question is: How can you get consistency without wiping after every shot ???

The answer is: You can't !!!!

It's basically a non issue. By "spit" patching after every shot, followed by a dry patch, every shot is the same. That's why some guys can get 1" groups at 100, and others have a hard time getting down to a 4" group. It's the difference between paying attention as opposed to being lazy. TC black powder barrels generally have a bore that measures .500" on the button, in other words, a very tight bore. Knights are generally .502 and other makes vary. I don't patch for a follow up shot, I just have a "follow up" speedloader ready with a Harvester ribbed sabot on the bullet. It goes down the bore nicely in a dirty barrel.

I have a Triumph and I use loose T7 with win. primers and Hornady High Speed Low Drag Sabots. I have not experienced the crud ring problem. At the range I always swab with no.13 and then dry. The high speed low drags work quite well and push with good resistance.

yes,i can get good accuratcy without swabbing between shots,but not with 777 primers or powder. i changed back to win 209's and tried shockey's gold. its cleaner then anything i've shot.i can shoot 7-8 times before i get any buildup. i'm getting 1-1 1/2 in groups at 100yds.

quote:

bowhuntrrl

I agree 100% with BOWHUNTRRL

I have a Triumph and I always swab wet in between shots followed by 2 dry patches, never have any problems and accuracy is just great.

I don't know what's all the fuss about, crud rings are part and parcel with the fun of shooting an ML

I had that problem with my TC Omega untill I switched to Remington Kleanbore Muzzleloading 209 Primers.With Triple Seven pellets I can shoot a dozen or more times before swabing the barrel.

I have the same problem using a T/C Encore 209X50 with T-7 pellets and sabots. The first shot will be 2" inches high at 100yds. The second, third and fourth shot will group under 1" but they are not seated down on the powder charge, they're about 3/8" high. That's not acceptable. My only recourse using this set up is to run a wet patch down the bore after every shot. That's not acceptable either. I've gone back to my old T/C 50cal Hawkin Cougar using FF until I can come up with something that will work. My buddy has the exact same set up and tried the Remington primers and they didn't work either. I've never needed a follow up shot but if I do, I'm screwed. I'm still up in the air with these new in-lines.

I'm going to give Shockey's Gold loose powder a try and if it doesn't work out the gun will be gone.

quote:

Originally posted by DEC:
I have the same problem using a T/C Encore 209X50 with T-7 pellets and sabots. The first shot will be 2" inches high at 100yds. The second, third and fourth shot will group under 1" but they are not seated down on the powder charge, they're about 3/8" high. That's not acceptable. My only recourse using this set up is to run a wet patch down the bore after every shot. That's not acceptable either. I've gone back to my old T/C 50cal Hawkin Cougar using FF until I can come up with something that will work. My buddy has the exact same set up and tried the Remington primers and they didn't work either. I've never needed a follow up shot but if I do, I'm screwed. I'm still up in the air with these new in-lines.

I'm going to give Shockey's Gold loose powder a try and if it doesn't work out the gun will be gone.

It cant just be a Remington 209 primer.It has to be the one for muzzle loaders.It is a milder primer.The problem is with standard primers the charge gets blown ahead before ignition and you dont get a good burn.That is why there is a ridge there.I know at least 6 guys that have changed to this primer and the problem has gone away.If you use Pyrodex you will not have a problem either.Let me know if you want to sell theat Encore!!!!

quote:

My question is: How can you get consistency without wiping after every shot ???

The answer is: You can't !!!!

It's basically a non issue. By "spit" patching after every shot, followed by a dry patch, every shot is the same. That's why some guys can get 1" groups at 100, and others have a hard time getting down to a 4" group. It's the difference between paying attention as opposed to being lazy. TC black powder barrels generally have a bore that measures .500" on the button, in other words, a very tight bore. Knights are generally .502 and other makes vary. I don't patch for a follow up shot, I just have a "follow up" speedloader ready with a Harvester ribbed sabot on the bullet. It goes down the bore nicely in a dirty barrel.

The above post is one of those "hasty generalizations", as my brother called them... and not always true. I have three Whites that will consistently shoot the first three shots out of a previously cleaned barrel into 1" to 1-1/2" at a hundred, with no spit patching, no wiping, no nothing. Just re-load, aim and watch the magic! T7 is some amazing stuff.

quote:

Originally posted by OLBIKER:

quote:

Originally posted by DEC:
I have the same problem using a T/C Encore 209X50 with T-7 pellets and sabots. The first shot will be 2" inches high at 100yds. The second, third and fourth shot will group under 1" but they are not seated down on the powder charge, they're about 3/8" high. That's not acceptable. My only recourse using this set up is to run a wet patch down the bore after every shot. That's not acceptable either. I've gone back to my old T/C 50cal Hawkin Cougar using FF until I can come up with something that will work. My buddy has the exact same set up and tried the Remington primers and they didn't work either. I've never needed a follow up shot but if I do, I'm screwed. I'm still up in the air with these new in-lines.

I'm going to give Shockey's Gold loose powder a try and if it doesn't work out the gun will be gone.

It cant just be a Remington 209 primer.It has to be the one for muzzle loaders.It is a milder primer.The problem is with standard primers the charge gets blown ahead before ignition and you dont get a good burn.That is why there is a ridge there.I know at least 6 guys that have changed to this primer and the problem has gone away.If you use Pyrodex you will not have a problem either.Let me know if you want to sell theat Encore!!!!

OLBIKER
They were the Remington primers designed for muzzleloaders, he paid $7 for them! We've both been trying different things but haven't come up with a solution yet. For now I've set it aside until the weather breaks.

My Knights all shoot 2" or less @ 100yrds, clean or dirty, All with 120gr Goex BP. I shot my wolverine 12 times, no problems.

Boreman, did you scrub the bore clean with bore cleaner before shooting?

I have had similar issues and went with the kit to change the breech plug to use 25 ACP brass and small rifle primer, pellets 130 gr T7. Reliable, accurate and better than doing nothing
www.bpbullets.com

quote:

My question is: How can you get consistency without wiping after every shot ???

The answer is: You can't !!!!

I refuse to spit patch between shots and not a single muzzleloader that I have requires it. Mind you, I shoot Pyrodex and not T7 but all my Omegas and Triumphs all hold their accuracy for a dozen or more shots in a row...no spit required.

Try the Remington Klean Bore primers. They are the best ones I've found. The others are too hot and the crud ring is horrible. Spit patch inbetween shots does the trick. Good luck.

I have always thought that it was funny that a powder (T7) causes so many issues with so many rifles, causes manufacturers to put out different primers, special loading procedures (spit patches between shots), difficult cleaning and loading (crud ring) and very few people will actually say the stuff is simply crap.

They actually defend it by saying, "well, if you do all of those things and hold your mouth right, it groups great!"

Maybe I am just grumpy today, but thank God for those manufacturers that are trying for something better. OK, I am just grumpy today. No personal offense is intended to anyone here.

I have been shooting the Encore and Omega with loose triple 7 and Remington Kleen bore primers and I got no crud ring. I can shot 10 times without a spit patch and I get great accuracy.

What I also do is, when I get a new muzzleloader I clean the barrel real good, I then run a patch with break free on it, then I run a patch with bore butter on it and let it sit tell my next range trip. I do not clean out the bore butter, I load my first shot with the bore butter in the barrel and shoot it. I then keep shooting the gun 5 times. Then I spit patch and run a patch with break free and follow that with a bore butter patch.

After my first rang visit, I can then shoot my Encore or Omega 10 times with no problems.

At the end of my secession at the range I do a quick cleaning of the gun and run a patch with break free and follow that with a bore butter patch. When I get back to the house I take out the breech plug and do a good cleaning of the gun and finish my cleaning with a patch with break free and follow that with a bore butter patch.

I do not get a crud ring and my barrel stays rust free. This has worked well for me for years.

Now I shoot a Savage Smokeless and do worry about anything, unless I want to shoot my Encore or Omega. But triple 7, Remington Kleen bore primers and the above cleaning is what works for me.