Haven't used the T/C Encore in a couple of years because wasn't happy with the performance of the powder and bullets I was using. I am now going to try again with BH209 and a variety of T/C bullets I have on hand. Will have very little time on Sunday to find a good load before hunting on Monday. If anyone can suggest a near sure-fire winning load in terms of how much powder to use, I would appreciate it.

I tried the BH209. It is very accurate when it lights off - but it can be hard to ignite. After a few misfires I quit using it.

If you have the shotgun primer system it might be great...but even hot regular caps had failures in my guns.

I would suggest you try 100 grains by volume of BH209 along with some of those TC bullets. If not those, I would get some

Hornady SST-ML High-Speed Low-Drag Sabots in either 250 or 300 grain weight

or some Barnes Expander MZ or Spit Fire MZ in a weight of your choice but 250 grains or more.

Firmly seat the bullet/sabot on the powder and ignite with Winchester 209 or other full strength 209 primer.

Take along a 1/8" drill bit to clear the flash channel on your plug about once every 6 shots. You might also do a single damp/dry bore swab at that time but probably not really necessary.

I'm assuming you are going after a deer-sized animal. And I'm also assuming your Encore barrel has a fairly tight bore.

Don_G, BH209 was never intended to be used with caps of any sort. You are lucky it ignited at all when using caps.

Nimrod,

Blackhorn appears to be a somewhat controversial powder. If you are being pressed for time I would suggest trying 777 or pyrodex, at 80, 90, and 100 grains for starters. That should get you a satisfactory load and then next year when you have some time you can figure out if Blackhorn will work for you.

I am not saying you will not be able to get it to be reliable and accurate for you, but there is not much worse than going hunting with a load that you do not believe 100% in and it is hard to do that in a day even when everything goes right.

I should have said "primers."

I tried all that I could find that would fit my inline TC BP 50 cal carbine, and never found one that was 100% reliable with BH209. My stuff is stored, but I think it's small pistol/rifle size?

If you are short on time use a good brand of black powder. Maybe not the most accurate, but the most reliable, in my experience. And that includes 777 and pyrodex. All that stuff is just modern fads.

I use 110 gr Blackhorn 209 and a 250 gr SST or shockwave bullet lit off with a magnum 209 primer. never a hesitation.. bought a box of 1000 primers..kilt lots of deer with this load..Les

I bought a T/C Omega this year and after reading all the good things about BH209, I decided to give it a try. I'm delighted with the results. I use 110 grs. (by volume) and the Hornady 250 Gr. SST bullet sparked by a Fed 209 (not 209A) primer. Never had a misfire and accuracy is great. Never found it necessary to swab between shots either. Clean up is easy. I wouldn't use anything else.

Well, I thought I would report my results.

I bought CCI Magnum 209M primers (one of the 2 specific primers recommended by Blackhorn) and measured out some 100, 110 and 120 grain charges to go along with 250 gr. TC Shockwaves. After just 4 shots (as it was getting dark), things were looking ready to hunt, so I gave the rifle to the buddy that would be using it in the morning (as he doesn't have a ML of his own).

Mid-morning a buck and doe walk out to him and he takes a bead on the buck and cocks the hammer. When he pulls the trigger, it just goes "click". He breaks it open and removes the dented primer, replacing it with another one. Before he can try again, the buck fades away.

At lunch I checked out the gun to see what might have gone wrong. When I tried to fire it using the second primer he put in, it just went click again. I put in a new one from my supply and it also just went click. A buddy gave me one of his primers, a Winchester 209, and "boom". I didn't reload but just put in a fresh Winchester primer and when I pulled the trigger in went "pop" as the primer detonated.

It would appear that instead of there being a problem with the powder not igniting (which is a somewhat common problem, I understand), these 3 primers simply failed to detonate, as there was a clear difference in sound between "click" and "pop". These were brand new primers, as recommended by BH. Any thoughts?

I simply use standard Winchester 209 primers and have never had a misfire in the three years I have used BH209. I use 110 grains and the Hornady 300 grain SST Low drag bullets. I believe most, if not all of the reported misfires are due to improper use of the powder. Most people will simply not read the material or container and then blame the powder. I will never gain use Crud Ring 777.

Yes, you are seeing the effects of different primer lengths. Lot's of Encores have had difficulty even closing the action to the locked condition when using the W209 primer as they are the longest of the usually available 209 primers.

Your Encore apparently suffers from just the opposite problem - a bit too much headspace for the shorter CCI primers. So long as you are happy with results using the W209 primers - no problem, just remember to always use them. If you want to adjust the headspace a bit, there are shims available to do just that. link to Bellm shims

I wouldn't get too carried away with the shimming. Don't make the headspace too tight or you might wind up with a dangerous slam fire.

Here is some interesting data compiled by "Busta". The two primers you are using are side by side in the charts so you can easily see why the CCIs might be a bit short while the Winchesters work nicely:



I've used little else but the W209 and have had no issues with ignition because of them.

This is all very interesting, and certainly the simple solution seems to be to just keep using the basic Winchester 209 primers, but I'd still like to know the problem. Correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't a headspace issue result in a failure of the powder charge to ignite? Again, in my case, I think the issue was that the primer did not detonate, and I don't think that has anything to do with headspace.

I can understand a dud primer once in a while, but 3 in a row from a brand new box? Plus, I fired 4 of them the night before from the same box with no problem.

A headspace issue can have everything to do with a primer not igniting. I would almost bet if you put those same dented, but unfired primers in a tighter Encore or other muzzleloader, they would yet fire just fine.

If the problem were a weak hammer spring it would seem odd still that one brand fired while another didn't - would it not?

I think you might be on to something. A buddy of mine mentioned this same thing to me earlier today. He also said that maybe the firing pin had some crud obstructing it from making proper contact. So I took the gun down and the pin seemed fine. I guess my gun just doesn't like the CCI primers and I need to stick with the Winnies. Thanks for the help, Under.

I've fired close to 100 rounds thru two T/C Omegas using Winchester 209, Federal 209A and Clarinox shotshell primers and have had no issues igniting BH 209. I usually keep my the same load in the gun all season (Oct 1st to mid Dec?) and end up firing it at the end of the season if I don't shoot it. The trick is to keep a relatively clean breach plug and don't use primers specifically designed for muzzleloader use. Just sharing my experiences.

Every gun can have it’s own “Sweet spot”. A load that works best in that particular gun.

When I worked up a load for my CVA, I started with 90 grains of BH 209, and shot two groups of 3, increasing the charge by 5 grains at a time.
90 through 110 all shot nice tight groups, but at 115 the groups started getting larger, and at 120 the recoil got excessive and the groups went downhill.
I backed off to 110, with a Fiocchi 616 primer and Barns 250 T-EZs.

If I remember right, my 25” barrel is getting 1975 FPS with this load.

200 yard groups run 2” to 2.5”

Tried everything. Thought 777 was the ticket. Crud ring allowed 2 shots before having to clean. When I went to BH209 I haven't looked back. Fed 209 primers, 110gr BH209, 250gr Barnes TEZ=3 1/2 groups T 300 yards. Devastating on elk.

I own a first run Encore 209x50 in blued and walnut. I have put over 2500 shots through it. I am at the present on my third 10oz jug of BH209. Started out with and presently use 120grn by volume charges. My first ever three shots with 120grn/volume BH209, a Harvester black sabot, and a 300 grain XTP at 100yrds gave me the BEST 100yrd group I have EVER, EVER shot out of my Encore. Well under 1moa. I gestimate I have burned about 25oz of BH209 in my Encore now using W209 and CCIM primers and have had exactly zero problems. As a matter of fact some may find this next bit hard to belive, but I have NEVER once had a missfire or hangfire when shooting my Encore.

I literally gave away all my remaining 777 and RS Pyrodex and now only shoot BH209 in my Encore. Just wish it was $30 for a pound and not 10oz, but I can not bring myself to use any other BP sub.

I must note though Federal 209 mag primers will not allow me to close my encore so they are definately the longest 209 I have ever used.