Elkhntr:

I guess that I will be the odd man out here. A lot depends on what you are looking for in a muzzleloader. I personally prefer traditional styles to the modern in-lines, due to asthetics. Along those lines, for a reasonably priced, quality muzzleloader, it is hard to go wrong with a TC or a Lyman rifle. For roundballs and conicals, go with a 1 in 48 twist. For elk, I would go with at least a .50 caliber, and preferably a .54 caliber. As to ignition systems, I have been shooting muzzleloaders for 35 years and have hunted with them in all kinds of weather, and the only times I have had an ignition failure is when I have failed to adequately clean the nipple or flash passage. If you are concerned, add a cap locker to protect the cap.

Big6x6,

I believe ya, I haven't messed w/ the Knight 45s. Sounds like you have pretty good luck w/ them.

The lighter ones (295s) don't shoot that great out of some 50 cals.

Is 50 cal the minimum for elk in Montana?

Good Luck!

Reloader

I want to buy a muzzleloader to hunt deer and possibly elk in Montana. I want something fairly affordable. Montana law also forbids the use of Sabot bullets. I want something that is easy to clean, and has the appropriate twist to shoot concicals or possibly round balls. Any reccomendations for rifle? I have considered the CVA Bobcat (1 in 48"), or the CVA Stag Horn (1 in 32" twist), or the NEF Sidekick (1 in 28"). How important is the 209 Primer Ignition?

I'd highly recommend the TC Black Diamond XR .50cal from Basspro. I have this rifle and it shoots 295-348-405gr Powerbelt lead bullets real well. If Powerbelts aren't legal, I'm sure that it would shoot TC bullets equally well. You won't beat the price of $200+ shipping anywhere. It comes with all 3 ignition systems, #11, 209 and musket.



http://www.basspro.com/servlet/catalog.TextId?hvarTextId=53117&hvarTarget=search&cmCat=SearchResults



I have the CVA Staghorn in .45 cal, it's a good shooter, but has plastics sights and the bolt handle position is the safety, kinda primitive but it shoots 275gr Powerbelts real well.

elkhntr,

In Colorado Powerbelts are legal and you are only allowed to use conicals and Balls there too.

There are some Lead Power Belts too.

The .45s are plenty big enough but, the 50s seem to have alittle more punch especially, if you are planing on Patched Round Balls as Projectiles.

Good Luck!

Reloader

elkhntr, here's the deal you're looking for. The Disc elite is one of the most accurate Muzzleloaders on the market
http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/templates/product/horizontal-item.jhtml?id=0024643214990a&navAction=push&navCount=1&indexId=cat370001&podId=0024643&catalogCode=4IS&parentId=cat370001&parentType=index&rid=&_DARGS=%2Fcabelas%2Fen%2Fcommon%2Fcatalog%2Fitem-link.jhtml.1_A&_DAV=MainCatcat21424&hasJS=true
And here's a link to a printable Knight $50 rebate coupon
http://www.knightrifles.com/NR/rdonlyres/126920EB-13AD-4CF1-8521-C339EDE78EB2/0/REBATEBACK080404.jpg

Thanks for the advice. I'll definately stick with 209 ignition.

I'm not sure I can use the powerbelt bullets. The Montana regs say "All lead bullets. No Sabots." I'll contact Fish Wildlife and Parks for clarification.

Is a .45 sufficient for whitetails out to 100 yards? Anyone had experience with a .45 Caliber Rifle shooting maxi-balls with 150 grains of powder?

Hey Big 6x6,

I like the Knights too but, they will not shoot conicals worth a hoot. At least they will not for me or the guys I know that shoot them.

The lands in a Knight are very "short" if you will, and The conicals seem to prefer coarse lands.

The Knights will shoot Sabots really well. I can see yours is doing quite well w/ the 200s.

Good Luck!

Reloader

I'll have to give the Knight Disc Elite two thumbs up myself. It IS the most accurate muzzleloader I've ever owned, and I have owned a few(still do! ). I have one in both .45 and .50 calibers. The .45 is just as accurate as the .50 but it is MUCH more picky about which load it likes. The .50 Disc Elite seems to shoot almost everything very well. Here is a pic of 3, 3-shot groups at 161yds shot with my .50 Disc Elite. Average of those groups is 1.36 inches!







The only twist concerning the use of a Disc Elite is that it doesn't have any iron sights. If Montana allows the use of optics this is THE muzzleloader to get and the price has NEVER been lower. A Disc Elite .50 using a 348gr, 405gr, or 444gr Powerbelt should be a lethal elk combo.



I also have a T/C Omega .50, NEF Sidekick .50, and a couple of Knight Wolverine 209 .50s. Really all fine muzzleloaders each with quirks of their own. Any of those would be fine as well.



I've owned a T/C Black Diamond .50. It was an accurate muzzleloader. It was a HUGE step up from the Traditions Lightning Bolt I had before it. While STILL a good muzzleloader it has a few more "issues" than the others. The trigger is non-adjustable and is mushy and heavy. The breech plug is two-piece. Useful if you'll ever use a #11 cap but a pain if only using 209s. Finally, the hammer/plunger comes out as 5-pieces if I remember correctly. More pieces to clean, keep up with.

RL,
I've never shot a Powerbelt thru the .50 Disc Elite. I have shot Powerbelts thru a .50 Disc Extreme, .45 Disc Elite, and a Wolverine 209 though. They seemed to prefer one weight over the other but I could always get them to shoot Powerbelts really well. In fact the .45 Disc Elite would put the 225gr Powerbelt Aerotips into an inch or less. Looking back at my loading data for my Disc Extreme .50 I got groups of 1.05, 0.95, and 1.40 inches at 100yds using a 348gr Powerbelt Aerotip and 100gr fffg 777 at average velocity of 1642fps. They'll shoot. I just usually use a saboted bullet prefering more velocity and a higher bc.

elkhntr,

There are alot of low priced MLs on the market today. From My experience w/ full bore bullets, The rifles w/ slower twist and heavy lands seem to shoot the conicals the best.

I would say that out of the MLs you mentioned, the NEF would probably shoot the conicals the best.

The Power Belts over 100 grains of Triple Seven is a pretty lethal combo. If you don't like the factory sights that come on your new rifle, some after market sights can be had at reasonable prices.

As to 209 ignition, IMO it is a must! I strongly urge folks to go w/ the 209 ignition because of a bad experience I had w/ No 11s (I had a cap snap on a very respectable whitetail buck and never saw him again). Misfires w/ 209s are fery few and far between as long as you have a clean nipple. 209 is far more dependable in high moisture situations too. When that big boy is in the sights a snap is one of the worst feelings a hunter can have.

Good Luck!

Reloader