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445 supermag, I went to Doug's page and did som reading, WOW! 2570'/sec. That is impressive! I am going to see how much it will cost to rebarrel my Ruger #3 to smokeless! But, you are not alone! Look at http://www.smokelessmuzzleloading.com/index.html they have been selling smokeless barrels for 20 years. Wonder what they would say, to who is stronger and more powerful? | ||
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MoreBS, very easily.  It is the only muzzleloader that is made to withstand the hight pressures of smokeless powders and savage uses the same materials as in their centerfire rifles. They are also proof tested at if I remember right over 100K cup I think thats right but not totally sure. No other ML can withstand that pressures that the savage can because they are not designed to like the savage is. So that is strongest.Most powerful is very easy. What ml can shoot a 250 gr sst at over 2500fps. Only savage can. So that makes them most powerful. SO there you go. Savage the strongest and most powerful ML in the world. Brian | |||
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MoreBS, Sorry but I should of said production rifles. Not custom. Yes they are the strongest most powerful production ML rifles around Brian | |||
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When you consider that just about all factory rifle makers have had some blown rifles here and there, 1 blown Savage after 5000 rounds (some of which were over loads) doesn't sound too bad. Think about the rescent Sako incident. When you really think about it, all of us shooters are holding a possible pipe bomb every time we squeeze the trigger w/ any firearm. Savage is definitely a strong MLer. Good Luck! Reloader | |||
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Quote: Savage really stirred up a hornet�s nest a few years ago with the introduction of their inline muzzleloader that uses modern smokeless powder, such as is used in cartridge firearms. They might as well have called the Pope a Godless sinner! There are more heated discussions over this new muzzleloader than with any other topic regarding muzzleloader hunting. We need to keep in mind, however, that smokeless powder is just another black powder substitute. It was invented, as the name implies, to fire without emitting a cloud of smoke. From a military standpoint, this is greatly advantageous, as it does not give away the position of the riflemen or artillery to the enemy. Smokeless powder also contains more energy per grain of powder than does black. If Savage had introduced this rifle with a new powder that was just as powerful, but emitted smoke and fouling upon firing, there would be less controversy. The Savage system offers the great advantage of more power and minimal fouling, and some shooters will not accept this. Think about it, a muzzleloader is simply a rifle that uses no self-contained cartridge. The breech being sealed, no brass case is needed. Most black powder substitutes are formulated to measure like black powder, while offering improved burn characteristics. Smokeless is no different, except that it measures differently. Its advantages over other black powder substitutes are those of cleaner burning and more power. To a man, every critic, except one, of the Savage 10MLII smokeless muzzleloader has never fired one. Many have never seen one, but still offer criticism of the rifle based upon the powder that it uses. I want to emphasize that the Savage can use black powder and any substitute on the market as well as any rifle, but due to the fact that it can be used with smokeless powder, many hunters want it banned from use during muzzleloading season. Again, these are shooters who have never even fired the rifle. I like the Savage, and have purchased one. It offers greater range, flatter trajectory, more power, and less fouling than any other muzzleloader on the market. I love mine. Now for the one and only critic of the Savage muzzleloader who has extensively used the rifle; that being Toby Bridges. I have never met Mr. Bridges, but have corresponded with him. He was for years the preeminent proponent of the Savage muzzleloader, and I mention him here only because of recent developments regarding his relationship with that firearm. Recently, Mr. Bridges experienced a catastrophic failure with a Savage muzzleloader using smokeless powder. This concerned me, because I own and use an identical rifle. Mr. Bridges has published this incident on the internet, and is now advising against the use of the Savage, after years of promoting the rifle. I want to preface my following thoughts on this matter by stating that I have no dog in this fight, and this is just my opinion, after investigating this matter as best as I could. There are, however, a few facts that pertain to the relationship of Toby Bridges and Savage Arms. Mr. Bridges worked for Savage, with the job of testing and promoting the 10MLII muzzleloader. He has fired more rounds through Savage muzzleloaders than anyone to my knowledge. After a few incidents that are none of my business resulted in Mr. Bridges having a falling out with the inventor of the rifle and a run-in with the law, Mr. Bridges also was fired by Savage Arms, for failure to perform his job, and having a really poor attitude. Shortly thereafter, Mr. Bridges suddenly had a 10ML blow up while he was supposedly testing it. The gun was utterly destroyed, but the shooter was not scratched. He was supposedly shooting a safe load in the gun; one which in fact I have exceeded many times. Now Mr. Bridges declares the Savage unsafe. This is, keep in mind, after he was let go by Savage Arms. I have seen pictures of the destroyed rifle. There is no way short of a divine miracle that someone could have been sitting behind that rifle with his cheek pressed to the stock, and have not been seriously injured. My opinion, and it is worth what you paid for it, is that the gun was intentionally blown up.< !--color--> --- Jeff Quinn The entire article can be read in its entirety at http://www.gunblast.com/Muzzleloading.htm . | |||
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This is the only gun that has "Blown UP"???? Kind of makes you wan to wonder!!!!!!!!!!! | |||
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Quote: That's a fact-- in the five year production history of the 10ML, this is the first and only. Likely the last, unless Mr. Bridges is still "testing."  | |||
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Randy you really do get around. You are everywhere!!  Brian | |||
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Get the savage,,,shoot loads in the sugested range and do not worry about it, I have not cleaned mine in 4-5 weeks after 30 shots or so, I'm doing load developement and only get a couple shots in every evening I dry patch it a couple times after every two shots. I get 2300+ with savage recomended loads and the 250 SST. Do go to this site to learn of load developement though it will save ya a lot of headaches. http://dougva.proboards34.com/index.cgi?board=Savage I think Mr Bridges gun blew because he hotrodded it for years and 5000 shots, Overload a 308 or any other gun that long and it will pop to. And yes it is hard to believe that he came away from that blown rifle without anything other than a full pair of undies! | |||
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The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Hunting Muzzleloading Big Game Hunting Re: Anyone use the Savage ML10 II ?
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