This was in no way a hunt, it was simply dispatching a "cull" red deer stag to put some more venison in the freezer. But it served me well in determining how a cast bullet would work in the small caliber White Muzzleloader.

The man had about 18 red deer in a fenced enclosure of about 20 acres. They weren't "wild" in the truest sense, but they sure didn't like us being "in their space". They repeatedly wadded up in one big group (for protection, I was told), and it took about 45 minutes to get them to separate enough to ensure that only one of the animals was hit.

I shot the one I took, a stag of ~270#, with an RCBS 40-400 BPS bullet cast 1:20, lubed with my own Emmert lube, pushed with 100-grain equivalent of Hodgdon FFF T7 lit with a #11 CCI cap. (This load shoots 1-1/2" three shot groups at 100 yards, w/o cleaning or patching between shots).

He was standing broadside at ~70 yards, and the bullet entered about 4" below the spine. He just stood there, then eight to ten seconds later took two steps, toppled, kicked once and lay still.

A post-mortem showed one broken rib going in, a thumb-sized hole through both lungs, and a broken rib going out. What impressed me was that other than the holes, the lungs were perfect. None of that purplish color that sometimes happens when animals are shot with a jacketed bullet.

I am pleased with bullet performance, that the kill was quick, and that the carcass was virtually undamaged. In short, this bullet's performance has me thinking about making the MZ my hunting firearm of choice, and am trying to put myself in the same sort of situation with a feral pig. Several feral hog "hunts" to control numbers on TX Wildlife Management Areas are scheduled to start very soon. Maybe I will get lucky and get the chance to shoot a feral with this same setup. If you are interested, stay tuned...

Doubless,

Thanks for the report. What size do you size your bullet?...thanks...jim

I don't size the bullets at all... I pan lube them as-cast. They load easily, and are apparently soft enough to obturate and fill the grooves.

And fwiw, I shoot the Lyman 50-cal. Maxi-Ball the same way in my two .504 Whites. Cast of 1:20 and pan lubed, I have held them to 3-1/2" at 200 yards out of both rifles. Same 100 grains vol equivalent, and same #11 cap.

Congratulations on the Kill and best of luck on getting into the Hogs.

Do you use any kind of Wad between the Bullet and Powder?

Thanks, Hot Core, but it really wasn't anything more than just shooting them. Kind of like shooting a cow behind a fence. Not hunting at all.
But to answer the question, no, I don't. I tried some pre-lubed felt wads behind Remington 365-grain conicals in one of the .504s I own, and it seemed to expand the groups, so I quit using them.

One question. Why do you cast 1:20? I assume that is lead to tin. Typically muzzleloading bullets are pure lead. Seems to me that they might be too hard to load easily although you say not.

It just sort of occurred... I have a 40-65 BPCR rifle, and I had some of the RCBS 40-400 BPS projectiles cast for it in 1:20. I wondered if the bullet would perform in the White at all, so I miked a couple, and the diameter looked to be about right. I tried one in the muzzle of the .410 and it slipped in reasonably easily. I felt like the spitzer-shaped bullet might go plastic and wobble at the anticipated velocity if it were pure lead, and I didn't have an empty casting pot at the time, so I decided to try the 1:20 bullets and see if they would shoot well enough for me to be able to use them in both rifles. One trip to the range was all it took. The first three shots were just inside 1-1/2" at 100, and I was convinced.

I am pretty much a .41-caliber freak, and as such I have a lot of different moulds that cast .410" nominal projectiles. I intend eventually to play with some of the other profiles. Hopefully I can get them small enough to fit. Unfortunately, the NEI 411-275 SSK mould I have casts a bullet of almost .412" out of 1:20. That is too large to seat easily, even after sizing to .410, so I may have to go to a .408" or .409" sizer die if I want to use that bullet. (It weighs almost 300 grains cast 1:20...).

I also believe most rifle bullets shoot better if pan lubed and left unsized. At least that has been my experience to this point.

(I have a 45-70 BPCR rifle as well. And you can bet that if 45-cal MZs had groove diameters of .458" instead of .452" I would be trying the RCBS 45-500 BPS in them!)

Doubless,

NULA makes their M209 muzzleloader with "true .45 and .50 barrels" as they name them. Also I think some of the other .50s out there size larger so you could shoot larger diameter bullets in them.

jim

I also have a 40-65 BPCR Original Rolling Block with Badger barrel and action converted to curved pistol grip (work done by a friend in Georgia). Custom Fagen stock and Snover rear sight. I have thought of using some of the heavier bullets in my Muzzleloader but I only have .50 cal and would have to go to sabots which would likely be too short to work. Maybe I should get a .41???
F

It just depends on what you want to do, MLK... The restrictions typically say 45 for deer, and 50 for elk, minimum.

I am down here in TX, and the only limitation on muzzleloaders, as far as I am aware, is that you have to use at least a 45 on any public deer hunt. I may stand corrected the first time I try to use the 410 on a feral pig hunt (and I use the term "hunt" loosely), but I am going to attempt to do just that if I can draw a spot.

I think you and I both know that there is not much on the NA continent that will survive a "boiler room" shot with a 400-grain bullet, but that statement holds no water at all with F&G departments. Even down here in TX, my 410 is left for either the deer lease or pig hunting on private land, because the bore is considered "too small"?!!

All that to say this: Doc has some super deals right now on his 410 Model 97s, but I don't know how much you would get to use it in AZ...

Best of luck!
Doubless

Actually Arizona does not have any limit on minimum bore for rifled muzzleloaders. The .410 is legal for elk here. I have a White Thunderbolt action with Doc now waiting for a barrel to become available. I have asked for a .504 but also told him I would take a .410 if it is available first. When I sent the action barrels were supposed to be available but for some reason that fell through so now I wait. I am real sure that a .410 400gr. lead bullet will do the job on elk. Deer hunting in Arizona does not impress me as the deer are scarce and the meat is pretty gamey. Elk on the other hand are easier to find and the meat is great. Only problem is getting drawn. Am waiting to find out if I got drawn this year as we put in earlier this year.

Doubless, I'm a little surprised that 1:20 alloy shoots that well for you but am glad to hear it. Sold my Super 91 .410 but might have to let the fellow I sold it to know about your results.

He doesn't cast but can get bullets from Bull Shop cheap enough for it not to matter. I'm sure Dan at Bull Shop would make him up a batch.

MLK, here's hoping you get the barrel and the tag! I really like my 410, to the point that the 504s don't get shot a whole lot.

Richard, I was pretty surprised as well. If your buddy wants to try some of what I cast, let me know. I think you still have my email address as well.

I've already contacted him. Can't say whether he will take you up on that generous offer or not.

Forgot to ask, what proportions do you use in your Emmert's Lube?

Doubless' I am the guy that that bought UC's
.410 and I would really like to try your bullet
any chance on getting a few
Thanks Redclub

Redclub, send me a PM with a mailing address, and I will drop some in a box...

What I used last time was equal parts of vaseline and paraffin, with a couple of tablespoons of RCBS Case Lube 2, and two tubes of Case Slick, for the graphite. (I used a 13-oz jar of vaseline, and measured paraffin to match...) But it is a bit harder than it should be... The better "recipe" is equal parts of Crisco, Wesson Oil and Beeswax (the original recipe said 5 oz, but I have to believe 8 oz would work just as well), the Case Lube and the Case slick. Beeswax evidently has some oils in it that paraffin does not, and the lube is a bit softer, as well as being a bit "slicker". I think it is a really good lube.