I am planning on buying a Lyman GPR Hunter model 54 cal
my only delema is that i can't decide between flint or percussion
please help

HTR: I think you might be best served with the percussion lock, as it is a good one. The flint lock is reverse engineered on the percussion, not a flint from the ground up, so to speak. I had ignition issues with the one I had, and while some of that is lock tuning and flint know-how, I have never had such issues with a Siler or L&R flint lock. One other consideration is that the flint is even less "historically correct" with a fast conical twist than the percussion.

quote:

Originally posted by HTR30CAL:
I am planning on buying a Lyman GPR Hunter model 54 cal
my only delema is that i can't decide between flint or percussion
please help

Rather than keyboard lenghty exposition, I strongly reocmmend avoiding GPR flintlocks. If you want detailed explanation, plus methods of mitigating existing problems, please PM or E-mail me.

QUESTION: Are you left-handed or right-handed?

What are you going to use it for? If it is hunting, I think you will find the perc more practical.

thank you very much for the information

If you are just getting into muzzleloading. It would be wise to learn on percussion. Most of the tecniques are the same for flint and percussion, percussion being more forgiving.

quote:

Originally posted by Naphtali:

quote:

Originally posted by HTR30CAL:
I am planning on buying a Lyman GPR Hunter model 54 cal
my only delema is that i can't decide between flint or percussion
please help

Rather than keyboard lenghty exposition, I strongly reocmmend avoiding GPR flintlocks. If you want detailed explanation, plus methods of mitigating existing problems, please PM or E-mail me.

QUESTION: Are you left-handed or right-handed?

dickens66075@yahoo.com I would like to know your explanation on the GPR flintlock as i have one and its not so great.

quote:

Originally posted by Dickens:

quote:

Originally posted by Naphtali:

quote:

Originally posted by HTR30CAL:
I am planning on buying a Lyman GPR Hunter model 54 cal
my only delema is that i can't decide between flint or percussion
please help

Rather than keyboard lenghty exposition, I strongly reocmmend avoiding GPR flintlocks. If you want detailed explanation, plus methods of mitigating existing problems, please PM or E-mail me.

QUESTION: Are you left-handed or right-handed?

dickens66075@yahoo.com I would like to know your explanation on the GPR flintlock as i have one and its not so great.

I'm not understanding your question. Apparently, we agree on the unsuitability of Lyman's GPR flint LOCK as an ignition device. Lock work with many stamped parts, coil springs whose actions function opposite of "V" springs assures poor ignition reliability. These design faults do not matter nearly as much when incorporated into a percussion cap LOCK. Percussion technology allows manufacturers, who must save a few manufacturing dollars, to get away with cheapness where flint technology would not.

I hate to run against the grain, but my experience with my flintlock GPR .54 has been very postive. I'm not saying it's the best, but after drilling out the touch hole a bit, it has been as reliable as sunup. I'd also say that it has been flint friendly as I've been using the same flint for hunting, and sighting in, and checking,for two years now. I hunted two days recently in some pretty hard rain, with the lock covered with leather and had no problems with ignition. It is quick enough to beat my flinch everytime.

That's my experence with the GPR. But if you have doubt as to which way to go, you may need to go with percussion, it is just easier. I would unhestiantly go flintlock again, as I just like the stuff that goes with using a flintlock.

What I don't like about my rifle is all the junk that is stamped on the barrel, enough words to write a small novel. One day I'm gonna grind it all off and brown the barrel.

My 50 GPR flint shoots fine when it shoots but flints dull very fast in about 10 to 12 shots and i have done everything to the lock that i know to do. I think it should shoot longer per flint when it is new. And the shower of sparks never seems to be enough they are hot enough just not very many. What should it look like as for the amount of sparks.

Dickens, are you using english flints? If not go to Track of the Wolf and get you some. Really though 10-12 shots before a little knapping doesn't sound too bad to me. Don't go overboard with the knapping as I definitely used to give my flints an early death by over knapping.

Please forgive me but for the life of me I can't remember the name of the little dude you screw into the touchhole, you know, where the sparks go through to get to the powder charge. I drilled mine with a hand drill to make a sort of indentation, at the hole, and then enlarged the hole a bit,with a smaller bit. I got this fix from an reenactment site on the web, and it gave me the size drill bits to use. It really changed the game for me, before the fix, I was lucky to get 6 out of 10 ignitions, and some of those were painfully slow. Since the fix, I've never again had a misfire, or flash-in-the pan, nothing but bang like you want it to.
What you want is a nice bright white flash, yellow is a bit cooler, I get a lot of yellow in mine, but it works good anyway.

I also found that for my gun at least, not to fill the pan with powder, that the powder in the pan should lie just a bit under the touch hole.

I wish I could be more specific about the website, I'll look for it tomorrow and see if I can get you a link. Also I regret I'm having some brain farts as to the specific names of the parts I'm speaking of, but I've solved this thing 3 years ago, and have had no reason to revisit it. I'll see if I can find the site for you that helped me, and if I do I will give you a link.

I hope this helps some and get you on the right track.

lm

I've been involved the BP scene for almost 40 years & regularly run between 15 and 25 pounds of BP a year through a variety of rifles and smoothbores and BP ctg. guns.

A couple local guys have GPR's, one, a percussion and the other, a flintlock, one .54, the other a .50.

Both have given excellent accuracy AND ignition, but a lock change to an L&R is very worthwhile. Some GP
R flintlcoks have the vent improperly positioned, but it's still workable. It will need to be inlet as it contains proper flintlock innards. percussion rifles can get by with cheaply made locks having coil springs.

I STRONGLY vote against a conical ball(bullet) ML rifle for hunting as the .54 RB will handle any game in North America. Indeed, a .50 is not as good, but will work well on moose and elk to about 100 yards, the .54 easily adds another 50 to the effective range.

The Lyman rifles are the BEST rifle you can buy in the less than $500.00 price range - bar none.

BTW - shooting slugs in a nipply-gun, or a flinter, will burn out the flash holes very rapidly. People don't realize how much increase in pressure there is when shooting slugs.
Most RB guns run upwards of 15,000PSI for around max pressures, whereas a weak ctg. gun, like the .45/70 operates at 22,000PSI with it's meager 70gr. charge and a 405gr. bullet. Increase that to 100gr. and the pressure climbs to near 30,000.

The slug gun shooters use platinum lined nipples that cost upwards of $80.00 each to ensure being able to shoot a whole match without having to replace the nipple. None of them use flinters as 'good' vents like the Whitelightening by Jim Chambers are much more difficulty to replace.

Normal stainless nipples will burn out with slug shooting in as few as 10 shots. When you add a weak coil spring to the equation, you get hammers being blown back to 1/2 cock quickly, whereas a good lock with leaf springs won't do that for a longer period of time - however, accuracy degrades as the flash holes become larger.

In a .54 RoundBall gun, you can use a vent for several thousand shots, same with a nipple - but - with slugs, both have to be replaced often.

I've not used a production rifle for many years (34), but have worked on GPR's and several other of the production rifles. If I shot a, innexpensive production rifle, it would be no other than a GPR - with lock replacement via trackofthewold.com.

Dickens, I sent you an email with the site and info. that helped me out. I don't see anything about cupping the liner, but you simply use a bit to make a cone like indentation at the vent hole to help collect the sparks and then drill out the touch hole. The post I'm sending you gives some recommended bit sizes for the vent hole. Easly done and I bet it will be an easy fix for you. Again I hope this helps and let us know either way.

Regards,
Larry

PS I think Daryl is giving us the straight scoop. If my solution isn't satisfactory enough for you, change the lock, an easy enough solution, that I bet doesn't cost that much.

Hey flintrocks are just fun!!! If I didn't have a Win. Mod. 95 that needed feeding, the rock rifle would be all I hunted with.

The replacement locks run just over $100.00 and since they are real flintlocks, possess parts that need to be inlet into the rifle's lock motice. It isn't a big job at all and the resulting lock are worth while.

As to the vent, don't cup it on the outside - UNLESS - you can measure the web. If you want to enlarge it, do so only to about .070" only, not larger. larger will effect accuracy to the negative side of any fintlock and will result in powder loss out the vent when you seat the patched ball. Sorry, I can't remember the drill's #. Once bored to .070", you'll probably be able to see how thick the web is between the inner cup and the outside face and chamfer it accordingly. Chamfer too deeply and the hole will enlarge very quickly from gas pressure.

In case you don't realize there's much of a blast that comes out the vent, a lock that dips the edge of the flint into the pan across from the vent hole will show 1/4" of flint erroded or burned off that inner corner in just 25 shots. It's quite incredible.

Before firing a flintlock, always be sure you're not going to burn some standing to that side of the vent, without about 20feet, that is.

quote:

Originally posted by Daryl S.:
Before firing a flintlock, always be sure you're not going to burn some standing to that side of the vent, without about 20feet, that is.

Or install a flash guard.

from thirty-plus years of shooting one, I find that they will generally move after the first shot...

Rich

quote:

Or install a flash guard.

Yes- a flash gaurd could be installed on some locks. Some flintlocks have the frizzen retainer screw started from inside the lock and would require more work to install, rather than just a longer screw.

At Rendezvous BC, out of 150 shooters, perhaps over 1/2 are shooting flinters & I've never seen a flash gaurd on a gun, not even on the military guns for which flash gaurds are designed. So- we look first and warn with calling out 'right (or left) hand flint'.

I have been shooting flintlocks for many years. I would never purchase one without looking at it in person. biggest issue is the touchhole location in relation to the pan.

quote:

Originally posted by Larry Matherne:
Dickens, I sent you an email with the site and info. that helped me out. I don't see anything about cupping the liner, but you simply use a bit to make a cone like indentation at the vent hole to help collect the sparks and then drill out the touch hole. The post I'm sending you gives some recommended bit sizes for the vent hole. Easly done and I bet it will be an easy fix for you. Again I hope this helps and let us know either way.

Regards,
Larry

PS I think Daryl is giving us the straight scoop. If my solution isn't satisfactory enough for you, change the lock, an easy enough solution, that I bet doesn't cost that much.

Hey flintrocks are just fun!!! If I didn't have a Win. Mod. 95 that needed feeding, the rock rifle would be all I hunted with.

Thanks Larry i just got back on line have been off hunting for three weeks killed a nice buck, but i will do the touch hole and see if it helps, the flints i have now are the cut ones from Arkansas but i will try some better ones.

Buy real flints, not the sawn-agates TC sells for inflated prices.

Trackofthewolf sells English flints and you can buy "Made in USA" from Richard Pierce for little more than $1.00 each. Rich knaps his flints form chert- very hard, sharp and superior to agate. I've been using Rich's flints as well as black Brandon English flints for many years now. You can contact Rich from his address listed in the for-sale forum at americanlongrifles.com.