Hey guys, I'm new to ML hunting.

I want to hunt farmland deer in western Canada and need a ML that is both accurate and has long-range capabilities. Is 250 yards unreasonable with practice? OR, I should ask, what is the drop for your ML out to 300 yards?--

What are best B.C. Sabots out there? What velocity from the top .50 cal. sabots?

I'm probably going to get the top of the line Savage in-line ML and use either smokeless or BP, depending on what is legal. Is the velocity decreased with use of BP?

Thanks!

CL: Most people here will burn you for asking about shooting at such distances with a smokepole. Lots of variances per every different gun/scope/load. New guns with magnum loads and aerodynamic bullets start to leave the realm of muzzleloading. It is quite possible, but not usually advisable to try to shoot over about 200 yards, and then with lots of practice. I literally shoot thousands of rounds every year, and practice out to 400 yards. Actual bullet performance on known ranges is surprising. Drops are around 14-18" at 200, 36" at 300 and 60-70" at 400 yards. Too far! My personal bests with sabots and jacketed bullets are 282 yards (open sights), and 334 yards with a 4X scope. These were laser ranged and witnessed, but were under exceptional circumstances, and I wouldn't try them normally.

You're right about pushing the limits of smokepoles. I use my bow for hunting at short distances (under 30 yards); though I practice out to 55 yards.

With a ML, I'm not looking to get the same connection with nature that I get by bowhunting (which I have been for almost 20 years-kinda scary ). Unfortunately, modern ML are way way beyond the primitive weapons class that they used to be. With that in mind, I just wanted to know what some of your experiences were with the outer limits of effective shooting range with them. Most probably my shots will be within 60-70 yards, but if I have an across the field opportunity, I want to know what the ML capabilities are (these differ from the shooter's abilities; which may extend or decrease that effective range).

Thanks!

CL,

I believe the Dead Centers have the best BC but, they are not cheap and I just don't like the look of them.

The Hdy 250 SSTs are hard to beat. In my ML10II they drop 5-6" at 200 yards when loading 44 grains of IMR4759. About 2" high at 100. It has a trajectory very close to a 30-30 win w/ 150s.

Good Luck!

Reloader

I shoot a TC Omega 50 caliber with a 3-9 and use Hornady XTP 240 gr and Hornady sabots I can hit a 3lb coffee can at 200 yds everytime

I think with 250 gr sst in a Savage ML10II running 4759 smokeless 250 - 300 yards would be very possible with an accomplished shooter. However any of the other inlines where BP or sub (like Triple 7, etc) are used may be stretching it for even an accomplished shooter JIMHO.

I shoot T7 with 250 gr Hornady SST and at 200 yards my drop is on average 12" depending on the conditions. While the accuracy is certainly reasonable anything further than 200 is getting walking papers (if the conditions are not favorable my max range may drop to 150 or so). Basically for me anything around that 150 yard mark is a GREEN Light using the sub - Triple 7 in my inline. I have made 2 shots on deer above 150 yards - LRFed @ 173 and 191 (both were as good as we get in Saskatchewan for conditions). The majority have come 100 or under though so I have worked up my loads more on Accuracy to 100-150 vs trajectory for the rare longer shots I may take. Obviously I still practice @ longer yardage to ensure I stay tuned should it arise and like you do the same with my bow. I actually feel it makes the realistic yardage groups to be better as I have higher level of concentration on my shooting technique.

I am postive like any bow or rifle the ML is far more effective than most of its handler's. So the trick is still finding or developing the limitation within ones personal abilities and then sticking to them. I set up so that should my quarry arrive I am in a position to pull the trigger and if not well I just learned once again "Why it's called hunting...not harvesting!".

This is the actuall shooting drop with my savage with avg.2440fps 250 gr sst and plain sabot.
100yds- dead on- shot many one hole groups last year
200yds drop 7.1in.-shot several groups less than 2 inches afew less than 1 in and even one @1/2 in.
300yds drop 26.8-shot several groups @3 inches and a couple less than 3in
Wanted to try it on deer at 300 yds but fartherest shot I took was 234 yds.shot behind front shoulder,complete pass through,deer took 2 steps and dropped.
one at 65 yds running passed through both shoulders dropped in its tracks
one at 48 yds through the back of its head allmost took its head off dropped where it stood.
So the savage would be the one I would pick for long range.

Here is what a very accomplished and practiced
shooter can do with a perfect load for his rifle:

http://dougva.proboards34.com/index.cgi?board=Savage&ac...ay&thread=1116722376

This load should not be used in ANY OTHER rifle,
and should be used only by those who have become
familiar with duplex loads.

A few years back my partner and I were drawn for a NM MZ bull elk permit. Prior to this I had only shot a MZ less than 10 times and had never owned or even loaded one. After tons of resurch we bought Encore 209x50 magnum MZs.

As I did not have a computor then or the benafit of the internet and could only find one manual written by Toby Briges(sp?) we went through a stiff learnng curve. After many hundreds of rounds of 150 grains of pellitized RS Pyrodex, MMP/Knight sabots, and 300 grain XTPs we finally mastered our Encores.

I was amaized at the accuracy capabilities of this MZ out to 150 yards with the excellent iron sights it came with, and with a scope the accuracy out to 200 yards. But man I am hear to tell you we went nearly nuts gtting there. What saved our collective bacon was a website known as http://www.prbullet.com. We used there loading and in-between shot cleaning technique and it made all the difference in the world for optaining CONSISTANT accuracy.

After more than 750 rounds this is what we found to be true as far as drop with the Encores.

Sight in 3 inches high at 100 yards:
<>Dead on no drop at 150 yards.
<>7 inches of drop at 200 yards

My 3 favorite loads:

120 grains 3-F 777
Hornady High Pressure Black Sabot
Hornady 250 grain XTP
Hornady 240 grain XTP/MAG
Hornady 300 grain XTP and XTP/MAG.

I would love to give Hornady Shockwaves a try, but I have so many XTPs, and thay shoot so well I just cant give them up. I have do doubt that with a GREAT DEEL OF PRACTICE and under PERFECT no wind conditions with a high BC MZ projectile like the Shockwave shooting out of a 10MLII could push the max range to 300 yards. But with my above loads 200 yards is about max fo me.

Posts like this always seem to wind up contovercial. But I like to add that snipers on both sides in the Civil war (now THATS a contradiction in terms) often made kills way beyond any practicle modern day ML hunting ranges, and that was with by todays standardes would be quite primitive side hammer MLs with equally primitive optics no less, when compaired to my Encore. It would be like compairing a Roman chariot to a Corvett.

I would strongly reccamend you go to dougs message boards, or SAV10ML.com to resuch Savage 10MLIIs. I wish thay were available when I bought my Encore as I would have bought the 10MLII insted. If ther is such a ting as a true viable 300yrd ML the 10MLII shooting smokeless pwdr is it.

Anyone feel free to correct me on this, but I beleive the best prices for the 10MLII are at http://www.natchezss.com

Hi Guys!

Thanks for all of your tips, I just bought a Savage ML-II SS Camo!!!!

I will start a new thread as I have a couple of specific questions.

Thanks!