Got 100 Remington Kleanbore Muzzleloading Primers for Christmas and shot about 20 today and was shocked to have one compleatly blow backwards in/half in my Traditions Lightning Fire inline .50 cal and several seperated slightly in my Knight .45 cal disc rifle. Ever had anything like this happen?

Yes I have had all of them do it with as little at 80GR. T7, 2f. the Remington STS seem to not do it as much and the CCI's were second best.
I have a post some where here with a picture. I will look for it.

Al

This one is a CCI and the first 209 primer I ever shot with a ML



Al

Happened to me too. Nearly everyone I fired did this. I contacted remington. They claimed to have never heard of it happening. They did refund my money though.

You are getting to what amounts to too much headspace but instead of on a cartridge case, it is on the primer. Most of those inline bolts go foreward to fire and there is only spring pressure against the primer which will blow back and dump the cup. The flash holes are larger then the hole in a nipple, letting too much pressure back out. The quest for hotter ignition has it's price!
It is NOT the fault of the primer, it just does not have the support.
You are only getting away with not blowing up the gun because of the lower pressures, try that in a smokeless cartridge gun and you would be asking for severe injuries.
I would not call the situation safe by any means though because of the possibility of gas leakage. Blame the gun maker, not the primer maker.

Remington is full of crap. It happens on all "non-closed" breech systems because of what BFR stated. The Remington 700 ML is exactly the same way. Ask the Remington guys next time they tell you that why they have a flash cover with a vent hole over their plunger. Any of the guns that use that spring plunger to ignite the primer is going to have that to varying degrees. The T/C closed breech systems in the Encore and Contender prevent that from happening.

bfrshooter and George have it right. Nothing wrong with the primers, it's the gun. I have never had that happen in any of my Encores and I use the Kleen Bore primers in my Encore Pro-hunter.

I've never had it happen in my Knight Disk Extreme. There's nothing holding the primer into the plastic disc except a little friction, I would think if what was stated above is true, then the 209 should blow right out of the disk !!! I use Winchester Muzzle loader primers and Triple Seven primers.

Yes the guns could play a role. I have had the problem with both a savage and a traditions. Funny thing is only the remington primer has this problem. I will stick with my cheap cci 209s. They hold together everytime. Also accuracy seems to be better when using the ccis. I also have stopped using triple seven so I don't have much of a need for the remington primers. I know the feelings of some but I have been very happy with American Pioneer Powder. It works good enough for me and cleanup is breeze.

quote:

Originally posted by bowhuntrrl:
I've never had it happen in my Knight Disk Extreme. There's nothing holding the primer into the plastic disc except a little friction, I would think if what was stated above is true, then the 209 should blow right out of the disk !!! I use Winchester Muzzle loader primers and Triple Seven primers.

bowhuntrrl, the disk rifle's bolt holds the disk and primer in place, the face of the bolt is up agents the primer. This does not allot the primer to move. In other muzzleloader's that have a pull back firing pin, the spring action forward strikes the primer causing ignition. The pressure on the primer is bushed back agents the spring action allowing the primer to get distorted. So you won't experience that in your knight rifle.

Is this problem possably unique to bolt MLs? I have fired well over 1000, yes thats over 1000 209s while in my Encore 209x50 and never had aprimer problem of any kind.

This is not intended to be a promotion for Encores just an observation as food for thought on ML designs and primers.

Art, it is the sliding bolt systems that can "bounce" when igniting the main charge. Many of them do just this. You Encore is a "closed breech" system where the primer is stabilized by the breech plate closing firmly behind it. It will never happen on the Encore, and is unlikely on the Knight Disks as Redhawk describes.

I've got an Omega and a Knight DISC rifle and shot almost 100 Kleenbore primers and have not had a one do that. I agree, it can't be the Indian or the arrow, it's got to be the bow...

I got some Kleanbores from Wal-Mart on a close out. I thought that I was getting a bargan. They didn't separate on me but they did shoot sparks everywhere and got soot all over the place, even on my scope. Then about one in ten misfired. The only good thing was that they reduced the crud ring from the Pyrodex.

I got some Winchester primers for muzzleloaders and they improved my shooting a lot.

Good luck.