I'm new to muzzle loaders and would like to buy a .72 cal. rifle but am having a hard time finding anyone who makes one. I would love to have a kodiak double rifle sold at Cabela's, but I'm skeptical do to many reviews on regulation problems. So I am now looking for a single shot. I would appreciate help & advice t you could offer. Thanks in advance.

In universe of production rifles, Pedersoli makes a Kodiak SAFARI double in two grades. They may?? also make a cap lock single shot.

Regarding smoothbores, any gun identified as 12 gauge or .75-caliber (Brown Bess) may also be described as .72-caliber.

In the universe of built-to-order rifles, most likely if you pay for it, you'll get it.
***
Not only do I own a pair of SAFARIs - one of which is on the block - I have two 72s being built.

Hope this helps.

Thanks Naphali, who is building your .72's, and how do you like your SAFARI's.

One Safari is "back-up" - unfired, N.I.B. in my safe. The first time I took the Safari I hunt with to the range it was as it comes from Pedersoli. I shoot a custom-designed 775-grain bullet. I started with 150 grains FFg, first shot bruising my shoulder from clavicle to below my elbow.

My hunting Safari I had gunsmithed by Kris Bonner, Accurate Arms in Missoula - Pachmayr English-style simulated leather pad, fitted stock, trigger job on right lock, Brockman's wing-protected adjustable aperture rear sight replacing Pedersoli's rear sight abomination. After healing, I began "adjusting" the charge until I regulated both barrels to 110 grains FFg. Recoil would be brutal without its stock work. Rifle shoots cloverleaves from an unsuported bench rest at 50 yards. The rifle is accurate to more than 85 yards. I have not shot beyond that range because where I hunt 85 yards is about maximum range, and the rifle shoots within three inches at that range.

I have owned both grades of Kokiak double rifles, the low grade being a .58-caliber that I disposed of. While both grades are surprisingly accurate and capable of being regulated, the quality difference between low and high grades is substantial. Higher grade is definitely worth its premium.

Were you to buy a Safari, I strongly recommend you replace the rear sight with a single leaf, or, better, an aperture sight mounted at the breech end of the top rib as I had done via Brockman's. I also recommend having a pad installed if you want to take advantage of heavier loads than Pedersoli's lawyers want you to use.
***
Before I recommend my gunmaker, let me get a rifle back and have tested it. Having typed that, Joe Williams made my two stainless steel cut-rifled barrel blanks, 1:72 inches, with either choke bore or taper bore; I cannot determine which.
***
One thing that has been a pleasant surprise is that the rifles are so well built that I have no need of a back-up. One of them is unneeded.

Nilgi, if you can sort out the transport issues, Glen McGill of Oudtshoorn, Republic of South Africa, is making some lovely large-bore English sporting rifles. (http://www.gunsports.co.za/)
He is just wrapping up work on mine, a flintlock with a Chambers round-faced English lock and a Joe Williams (Oregon Barrel Works) 1:100 Forsythe-style roundball barrel designed to perform with 150-160 grains of powder.
I will post photos once I get it it to the States.
The .72 Kodiak doubles are a lot of fun. I shot mine with both roundball and a .729 835-grain conical from an NEI mold. The conical over the max charge was certainly an attention-getter in the recoil department, but slower shove of black powder and the considerable meat in those double barrels made the gun quite manageable.
I think Naphtali has a great idea in suggested an aperture rear sight for the Kodiaks.

quote:

Originally posted by Bill/Oregon:
. . .
The .72 Kodiak doubles are a lot of fun. I shot mine with both roundball and a .729 835-grain conical from an NEI mold. The conical over the max charge was certainly an attention-getter in the recoil department, but slower shove of black powder and the considerable meat in those double barrels made the gun quite manageable.
I think Naphtali has a great idea in suggested an aperture rear sight for the Kodiaks.

Bill:

Several questions pertaining to the 835-grain bullet.
1. What is its overall length, plus the number and size of driving bands?

2. What lubricant do you use?

3. What is the propellant and its [approximate] range of charge weight?

4. Please identify O.D. of each driving band, from front to rear/bottom.

5. What are bore and groove(s) I.D.s of the Safari that uses this bullet?

6. Please describe your loading process for barrels - that is, must you hammer the bullet to breech seat it?

7. What testing, if any, did you do to verify that recoil was not jarring the bullet in barrel #2 forward? This was my major concern during my bullet-load development.

8. What is the bullet's alloy, if not pure lead?

Naphtali, the bullet was from NEI mold 732-835, No. 399, a variation of the classic British Fosbery "cotton spool" slug often loaded in Paradox guns. The batch I had all came from a commercial caster named Wayne Doudna, I believe. I don't know the alloy, but they are pretty soft.
The bullet is .935 from base to nose and has a .729 base band and a .734 driving band, with one very deep lube groove.

I used home-made lube applied by hand (two parts beeswax, one part Murphy's Oil Soap and one part neetsfoot oil (not compound), if I recall correctly). Powder was Goex FFg, starting charge of 120 grains, final charge of 150 grains.
I did no testing of bullet movement because this slug needed a pretty whack on the starter with the palm, or with a leather mallet to engrave the driving band. After that, seating was firm but normal.
I believe the groove diameter of the Kodiak was around .729, but I sold it years back to a chiropractor in Oklahoma.

Nilgi: I love these big bore muzzleloaders. Another less expensive route would be to find a reproduction U.S. Model 1842 Musket with a rifled bore. These are .69 caliber, and I think you could get the huge Lyman .69 minie bullet going quite nicely in a trimmed down "sportered" version of this old warhorse and be in it well under $1,000 including mold.

quote:

Originally posted by Bill/Oregon:
Naphtali, the bullet was from NEI mold 732-835, No. 399, a variation of the classic British Fosbery "cotton spool" slug often loaded in Paradox guns. The batch I had all came from a commercial caster named Wayne Doudna, I believe. I don't know the alloy, but they are pretty soft.
The bullet is .935 from base to nose and has a .729 base band and a .734 driving band, with one very deep lube groove.
. . .
I used home-made lube applied by hand (two parts beeswax, one part Murphy's Oil Soap and one part neetsfoot oil (not compound), if I recall correctly). Powder was Goex FFg, starting charge of 120 grains, final charge of 150 grains.
I did no testing of bullet movement because this slug needed a pretty whack on the starter with the palm, or with a leather mallet to engrave the driving band. After that, seating was firm but normal.
I believe the groove diameter of the Kodiak was around .729, but I sold it years back to a chiropractor in Oklahoma.

Thanks for the information, Bill. Bullet, lubricant, lubricating technique, loading - and on, and on - are significantly different from what I do. The only intersection of commonality I can confirm are our Kodiak Safaris. What kind of two-shot accuracy did you obtain at 50, 75, and 100 yards/meters?
***
Question: Does the chiropractor lend the Safari to prospective patients, metamorphosing them from "prospective patient" to "patient?"

Naphtali: Best I could do with the conicals was about four inches at 50 yards. Never really tried them at longer ranges as I had a limited supply.
Here's a 20-year-old photo of me putting one of the lighter Kodiak .58s through its paces. Fun rifles!

Bill, the picture of you in that hat reminds me of one of the first things I see in the morning shortly after getting up! :-)

Biebs, there are a number of interpretations of your post, some of them potentially disturbing ...



That said, EVERYONE needs to have a foreign service helmet for those days when we feel a bit silly.

This was linked to me today.

About '04 I had Ed Rayl of WVa. make a .72 cal, 38", 1:38" barrel for me. 1 1/8" oct. The bore is beautiful. The outside finish was very rough. I've been stuck on getting a stock initially shaped and haven't been able to get further with this project I'd dearly love to finish up.

Also, www.octobercountry.com in Oregon builds bp rifles up to 2 bore last I knew. They're quite pricey, but, you could have it made to your specs I'm sure.

Dixie sells their Scissors mold for RB's custom sized to your desires.

I had a buddy bore out a Lee 1oz 12ga slug mold from the bottom but, forgot to have him cut grooves for lube. This can't be used I'm sure w/o changes to adapt for them. Full .735" dia and depth makes a 1160gr RN slug that just happened to by accident end up with a nice 3/8"dia x 1/8" deep HP. As I cast this w/o the sprue plate on the mold, the nose of the pro pot was down into the mold and started to set up. So I twisted it to form the HP. Looks mighty sharp.

Just to assist on loading I had Rayl cut a relief bore to accept the ball/slug then they're easy to start. He also upon my asking to be safe "what's the max charge for this so I don't over do it?" "Figure as a max: 1400gr slug and 250gr FFg. BUT, start down around 90gr and work up to YOUR recoil capability and he'd bet I'd be way less than this max." I'm sure of that!

Hopefully this bit of info will be helpful to some of you. I've regretfully passed the slugs out and no longer have even one left. The Dixie RB mold was cut to .715" and has never been used yet as the gun has never been completed.

Wish you well, and good luck with your desired rifle.
George

I don't know if he's still building rifles but Charley Moore of The Appalachian Rifle Shop in Oakland, MD built the barrel for my 14 bore. Not only is he's a black powder big bore nut but also a very talented machinist and rifle builder. His rifles look good and perform too!

quote:

Originally posted by PWS:
I don't know if he's still building rifles but Charley Moore of The Appalachian Rifle Shop in Oakland, MD built the barrel for my 14 bore. Not only is he's a black powder big bore nut but also a very talented machinist and rifle builder. His rifles look good and perform too!

PM sent.

quote:

Originally posted by Bill/Oregon:
Naphtali, the bullet was from NEI mold 732-835, No. 399, a variation of the classic British Fosbery "cotton spool" slug often loaded in Paradox guns. The batch I had all came from a commercial caster named Wayne Doudna, I believe. I don't know the alloy, but they are pretty soft.
The bullet is .935 from base to nose and has a .729 base band and a .734 driving band, with one very deep lube groove.

Bill, that wide groove on the Fosbery bullet is used to hold it in place in the case. The Fosbery bullets get lubed but only lightly and on the surface, not with a big blob in the groove.

talk to Colin Stolzer here. He's the gunsmith building up thru 2 bores, single and double rifles.

Rich

quote:

I have owned both grades of Kokiak double rifles, the low grade being a .58-caliber that I disposed of.

I bought a ".58 cal Kodiak Double Rifle " from Cabelas when they started selling them ( 20 yrs ? ).

The Barrels started to separate,.. after about year two of shooting ( Bad / Poor Soldering of Barrels ? )

Edit: Photo

It's been sitting in my Gun Safe. I wouldn't reccomend it to anyone


I really like the look of this " Underhammer Faeton ".

My eyesight is really starting to go

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PAPI