it will take three t7 pellets and a 300 grainer with ease wich in fa ct is the load i use i would stay away from the cva stuff its toatle crap. to put it bluntly. much better spending you money on barns or nosler or hornady deer bullets.
Posts: 2095 | Location: B.C | Registered: 31 January 2002
Thanks, We have been using both Pyrodex and t7 for sighting in the rifles with the 245 Power Belt bullets, and knew you could use three Pyrodex pills but did not know about the t7. Do you have a preferance? Is one faster or more accurate than the other?
square shooter
Posts: 2608 | Location: Moore, Oklahoma, USA | Registered: 28 December 2003
I used the 348 gr .50 PowerBelt for a Colorado deer hunt: they don't allow sabots in the ML season, which eliminates Barnes, Nosler and Hornady pistol bullets.
They shoot well with 100 gr H777 (FFFg) by volume. I have not tried going higher since this load and bullet work so well.
jim
if you're too busy to hunt,you're too busy.
Posts: 4166 | Location: San Diego, CA USA | Registered: 14 November 2001
Originally posted by lb404: Can you use three 50 gr. pellets of 777 in an Encore 50 cal and a 245gr. Power Belt without incurring high pressures?
the skirt of that Powerbelt may not like the 777 three pellet heat -- also the T/C Encore may not like the Powerbelts period. Some T/Cs do - some don't! That Powerbelt bullet is tested with CVA rifles. The best accuracy coming out of Omegas & Encores is (in most cases) with T/C-packaged bullets.
That Encore was primarly designed & developed with Pyrodex 2-3 pellet loads. If things don't work-out with 777 pellets. try the Pyrodex next.
Thanks all, I have a load with three pyrodex and the 245 powerbelt that shoots into an inch at 100 yards. I was looking for something that burns cleaner than Pyrodex. Is T7 cleaner that Pyrodex?
square shooter
Posts: 2608 | Location: Moore, Oklahoma, USA | Registered: 28 December 2003
Originally posted by lb404: Thanks all, I have a load with three pyrodex and the 245 powerbelt that shoots into an inch at 100 yards. I was looking for something that burns cleaner than Pyrodex. Is T7 cleaner that Pyrodex?
Use three pellets of 777. POI should be relatively close to the Pyrodex impact - should the Powerbelt skirt take the added heat of Triple Se7en. Just swab after every shot with that much powder. 777 is twice as clean as Pyrodex. But you may find most of the 777 residue near the breechplug -- creating a crud ring there. A 2-1/2" patch or bigger wrapped around a bore brush works best to remove it.
Thanks again. The interesting thing that I have discovered is that my rifle shoots better with a fouled barrel. If I shoot one shot to smoke the barrel then shoot three shots without cleaning between, the groups stay about 1 inch at 100. If I swab between shots it opens up to about 2 inch group. I have done this on six occasions and had similar results. When I hunt, I load my rifle and discharge it before going out into the field. I then load it back up and am ready to go. The Power Belts bullets are much easier to load in my rifles and seem to give better velocity as well. Have you noticed any difference in 209 primers. Remington clean bore verses the Federal or Winchester brands??
square shooter
Posts: 2608 | Location: Moore, Oklahoma, USA | Registered: 28 December 2003
lb404, I went to the range this weekend to try a new load in my Knight Disc extrme. I had a heck of a time last year trying to sight it in with 777 pellets finally took 2 50gr. for 2" groups. Sat. I tried 777 loose 100 gr and what a difference 1" groups at 100 without a problem.Just thought I'd tell you my experience with 777.
Rob
Posts: 1111 | Location: Edmond,OK | Registered: 14 March 2001
Originally posted by lb404: Thanks again. The interesting thing that I have discovered is that my rifle shoots better with a fouled barrel. If I shoot one shot to smoke the barrel then shoot three shots without cleaning between, the groups stay about 1 inch at 100. If I swab between shots it opens up to about 2 inch group. I have done this on six occasions and had similar results. When I hunt, I load my rifle and discharge it before going out into the field. I then load it back up and am ready to go. The Power Belts bullets are much easier to load in my rifles and seem to give better velocity as well. Have you noticed any difference in 209 primers. Remington clean bore verses the Federal or Winchester brands??
LB, My encore needs to be little dirty too to shoot good. Try spitting on a patch and running it through the barrel between shot groups. I also use Wipe-out for blackpowder, it seems to work good for 777 and gets a lot of the plastic residue out of the barrel from sabots or powerbelts. I use 777 loose powder, but only 120 grains behind a 250 grain Barnes MZ, 150 is just too erratic. It is accurate. I go to the range just before season, shoot my encore, clean it, shoot it again, then put it away for opening day (usually less than a week). The 777 doesn't foul like original pyro. When I get to my lease to hunt, I load it. If you discharge in your hunting area you might spook some animals. I shot a 350 hog and a buck last year, and because of lazyness did not clean my Encore until August. There were no ill effects to the barrel or the plug. I have been shooting and hunting with black powder rifles since 1982 and believe that the 777/Encore combo is the best for me. You may also want to try remington 410 primers or the new kleenbore primers, my groups shrunk a bit, a got a little more consistent when I switched to these.
Posts: 175 | Location: Oklahoma | Registered: 11 January 2005
I personally only load any caliber 2-X-the caliber as Maximum 45=90 grains Max etc If your looking for metal fatigue and loose some body parts load heavier ! NOT ME !
Posts: 497 | Location: PA | Registered: 24 May 2005
Originally posted by DanM: Not wanting to stir the pot but Hogdon states not to use more than 100 grains for 50 cal, regardless of what the rifle is rated for.
That isn't strictly true: Hodgdon has never suggested that three pellets is unsafe in any Thompson or Knight Inline. They would be quickly sued if they did.
THey also don't care-- they sell more pellets, which is precisely what they seek to do.
Mr. Wakeman I really injoyed your site , Thank you for all that info ! One thing really bothers me ! CVA rifles ! out of all the rifles sold only a scarce few were known to have ruptured and mamed their shooters ! Could it be that those people who were injured were over loading and dropped 4, 50 Gr pellets or even more to cause their rifles to explode ? Like the fellow with wife ! Chatting away and not counting ! being a show off as I have witnessed at the club range I belong to ! Look Ma No Hands Now look No Brains ! is what happens when being Mr Macho for wifie ! I have been at several loading tables at Cowboy Shooting clubs and witnessed loading miscounts , That even the Referee missed ! but another loader called them out at the same table ! I'm not being critical of your views of CVA or am I trying to defend their rifles ! Just don't seem to fit that out of probably 100,000+-? guns only a few blew up ! concho
Posts: 497 | Location: PA | Registered: 24 May 2005
Sorry I cant recall the exact facts, but I am reasonably sure that 50 grain pellets of 777 in fact do not weigh 50 grains. If I recall the info I read they are something more like 35 grains in weight. But I could be wrong on this as I have never shot pellitized 777 and only use it in powder form and in 3F-777.
I shot something like 200 or so loadings untill it became evident that using 120 grains by volume of 3F-777 gave me my most CONSISTANT accuracy with Hornady HP sabots and 300grn XTPs. At loadings of 125 grains my groups began to open up, at 130grns it became noticably worse, at 140grns accuracy became totally unacceptable, and I never went above 140 grains of 3F-777 for that reason.
This was in a Encore 209x50 with Hornady HP sabots, and 250 and 300grn XTPs.
I also found out AFTER I did my load development with the 3F-777 that Hodgdon recammends you reduce your max loadings of 777 by 20% from what was the max loading of any other BP sub you were previously using. So in my Encore 120grns would be a max loading. I dont know if that max load of 120 grains is true or a case of hodgdon playing CYA.
Originally posted by concho: Mr. Wakeman I really injoyed your site , Thank you for all that info ! One thing really bothers me ! CVA rifles ! out of all the rifles sold only a scarce few were known to have ruptured and mamed their shooters ! Could it be that those people who were injured were over loading and dropped 4, 50 Gr pellets or even more to cause their rifles to explode ?
There were so many CVA problems with their inlines, that every single inline branded CVA made in 1995 through 1996 was recalled.
All of them. Every single rifle over a two year period was apparently defective, and CVA went bankrupt to avoid further losses. No one need say they were defective; CVA said they were.
Does anyone believe there is such thing as a "voluntary" recall?
Not much has changed since that time that I'm aware of. Who do people think "CVA" is?
I am new to muzzleloading and just bought a new T/C. Is three Triple 7 pellets with musket cap safe in the T/C Black Diamond? I see some data that indicates that but does not list it specifically.
Don't forget that there are 2 different kinds of 777 pellets . There are the regular ones and the Magnums. DO NOT UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES TRY 3 MAGNUM PELLETS !!!
Elite Archery and High Country dealer.
Posts: 931 | Location: Somewhere....... | Registered: 07 October 2002
yes you can use 3 777 pellets no problem. as someone said earlier, they are 50gr each by volume not weight, so you're fine. i understand your powerbelts shoot fine, and if you are only punching paper, they are good bullets. with a light pb though, don't be surprised if they fail you on an animal. never again will they go near my barrel. if the t/c shockwaves are too hard to load, you can try the ez load sabots and see if that helps. i shoot 120gr of loose 777 and a 250gr shockwave bullet into 2" at 150 yards. plenty good for my deer hunting.
This is where is gets really confusing.....regular Pyrodex pellets are a true 50 grains by volume but T7 pellets are not.
As loads of 120 grains of loose T7 are considered maximum......they knew that people were used to three pellet loads and would undobtedly do the same with T7 so they just downloaded the T7 pellets so that three are roughly equal to 120 grains.
Randy needs to get into this one as I'm one of those old farts (along with D.B. Cooper) who still enjoys the charcoal burners. The NMLRA has a bunch of fact sheets on SOME of this, but none of the "grain" measures were weighed back when. It was always "volume" and some of that was a bit spotty (Like a 'thumbs worth' of black powder in your palm was a good load) I do know that T7 tells you to that their pellets are EQUIVALENT loads and should be used that way. They also advise you that if you're using loose powder, the volume is not the same either. Help me out here Randy.
George, all bp and bp subsitutes are still measured by volume and volume only...nothing has changed there and the only real fly in the ointment is the T7 pellets and they are still measured by volume.....it just that they are not a true 50 grains by volume for the reason I outlined above.
Not sure I'm an old fart but I'm getting close but the only time you'll hear about weight measurements for powder with muzzleloaders is with smokeless style muzzleloaders like the Savage burning smokeless powder. Then you most definitely measure by weight and not volume.
Understand and agree with all that, but Randy or DB might know how that came about. A "grain" has always been a weight measure. The trick of setting a musket ball in your cupped hand and pouring powder until it was covered was used often, but I don't know when the "conversion" took place.
Actually, I'd guess quite the opposite.... that a grain was a measure of volume long before is was a measure of weight in the world of powders. I suspect the conversion took place when people started loading smokeless powder and realized how inaccurate the volume measure was for smokeless. BP and its substututes are fairly uniform in chemical composition and the particles are all realitively the same shape where the composition of smokeless is a chemical jigsaw puzzle and the particles are smaller than bp and anything but uniform. A much more precise form of measurement is also required for smokeless....more precise than measuring in a cupped hand anyhow. But I sure could be wrong.
