I am just damn sick. I had a dear friend give me a like new T/C Seneca 45 ml. You may remember them....cute little rifles that were available in the 70's and early 80's. They look just like the T/C Hawken, but about 70% of the size. I had craved one for years and was elated when I was given this one!Sad to say, but it has been a terrible disappointment to say the least.I knew I was somewhat handicapped by it only being a 45 caliber...iron sights, etc, but that is the way I like my primitive weapons...I shoot a recurve bow, truely primitive muzzleloaders, etc...I like doing it the hard way.

Tonight was the last straw. Three deer this week, three shots to the boiler room and not the first damn deer in the bed of my truck. First shot was a doe, broadside at 90 yards. Good hit to the shoulder. No blood, no deer...searched for an hour and a half. Second deer, 30 yard broadside shot to the lungs. No blood, watched her run off on a "death run" and three of us searched for two hours...not even a hit of blood, hair, etc. Third deer was tonight...nice 130 class 8 point buck...huge body, well over 200#. Broadside, 70 yards. Hit, falls, gets up, falls again, gets up, falls and then runs off. I get blood (finally!)for 150 yards and it is only muscle blood. He was hit solidly in the shoulder. Will continue the search tomorrow morning.

This leads me to one conclusion: Is the 45 caliber, 280-something grain Hornady Great Plains bullet and 80 grains of Pyrodex, just plain not enough to bring down a deer???? I think so, based on this past week. I would feel better if I had missed, or could pin it on something else, but three solidly hit deer, unrecovered, has me about sick. These shots were not rushed! They were all "good" solid shots! I am a very experienced hunter and can't imagine what's going on here.

Going back to my 54 caliber Renegade I suppose, but it kills me to give up on this rifle...it is a beauty, but apparently does not have the horsepower.

Your thoughts and opinions?

Wow, sorry to here that. But I brought down 2 deer last year with my Encore 45 Cal M/L with 195 gr. Barnes Expanders and two triple 7 pellets. Both one shot kills and first deer fell in it's tracks and second got 25 yards from where she was shot.

80 grains of Pyrodex behind a good 385 grain conical should certainly be potent medicine on whitetail - but I can't explain what you are experiencing.

It sounds as if those Great Plains might be a bit too hard for expansion but I would have thought them to be made from pure lead.

quote:

This leads me to one conclusion: Is the 45 caliber, 280-something grain Hornady Great Plains bullet and 80 grains of Pyrodex, just plain not enough to bring down a deer????

It is MORE than enough.

We looked this morning since daylight...three of us and tracked him through some nasty nasty briars, saplings, etc....the rough stuff. We picked up the blood trail and it went on for another 100 yards or so. And then disappeared. From the direction of the blood spray, type of blood, etc it was apparent I hit the shoulder blade and the shoulder blade won this time. Nothing but muscle blood, no stumbling, laying down, bedding, etc...after a 150 yard run down an old firebreak, he then turned left into the nasty stuff and it just dried up. The 100 yards of trailing in the briars revealed he was just walking, in no hurry, but still, all indications showed a non-lethal hit to the shoulder. We searched all over the property afterwards, section by section, to no avail.

I love the Great Plains in my .54 cal Renegade...but in the .45 it is 285 grains and the 80 grain load is a max for this little rifle. Perhaps with a different bullet, the story would have a better ending, I don't know. But 80 grains with this bullet is not achieving penetration worth squat in my situation. Other, more modern rifles can shoot stronger loads, modern bullets, I can't in this rifle. I have severe misgivings about trying this rifle again on deer, as I strongly believe in not "experiminting" to see what works at the possible expense of wounding an animal. I know, 150 years ago little round balls were dropping them right and left. I have no excuses...that's just too much bad luck in one week on good hits to be passed off as conincidence.

Thanks for all your help and suggestions....will let you know how the next chapter unfolds in this little adventure.

This will sound like a very stupid question, but I am going to ask it anyway... Is it possible that your bullet is tumbling, and you are impacting the deer with the bullet oriented at something other than "point on"? I am not familiar with the firearm you are shooting, but if it was designed for round balls and you are shooting a heavy conical, the twist may be too slow. Possibility?

So, how much do you want for the rifle?

Brent

I must have killed over 50 deer with a .45 flintlock and black powder using a patched round ball. I never had to track a single deer.
One thing you have to look at is the Pyrocrap. I had some go bad in storage for a year and it lost all of it's power, even 150 gr's would not equal 80 gr's of black.
If that rifle has a round ball twist, how do you know the great plains boolit is staying stable out at range? I never got them to shoot unless the rifle had a faster twist. If yours is a 1 in 48, they should be fine but if it is slower, you are better off with a round ball.
I always used 90 gr's of FFG in the flinters.
If the Pyrocrap is good and the boolit is accurate, there is only one reason for lost deer---A bad boolit placement. (Maybe due to unstable boolits.) If the boolit is not penetrating far enough, dump the Pyrocrap. I have seen too much weird stuff with it.
There is NOTHING like real black powder! The .45 will kill deer every time.

I would try around 60 grains 777 or 70 gr real black with a 245 gr T/C Maxi. Another bullet that may do well is the 225 gr. copper Powerbelt. with 65-70 gr.

I have the same thought as Brent, how much do you want for it?

jim

It is definitely enough bullet. If a 85 gr 243 bullet is enough, the bullet you describe is more than a plenty. How is the gun printing on paper? I will be the first to say that I am an experienced hunter with some DG under my belt and I sometimes do the unthinkable thing that everyone here seems to be dancing around and not saying. I sometimes miss. I can't explain some of my misses. Shot was easy and looked great at my last sight picture. Still when the results are in, I missed. I did it this last weekend. The deer was at a more angled away position than I thought. I took a behind the shoulder hold and let fly. On finding the blood trail it was definitely gut shot. Oh crap!! Deer didn't travel far but the bullet entered too far back. Off side the bullet exited just behind the shoulder. Dead deer but I did not hit that deer where I thought I did. Gun shot perfectly just I judged it a bit wrong. It may be your rifle or may be operator error, but a 45 cal. bullet through the broiler room of a deer is a dead deer. 200gr, 250gr or 300gr. Check that gun out thoroughly at the range at a number of distances and I will figure something about your load bullet combo throws a wild pitch on occasion. Please do not take offense as none is intended. Good hunting. I hope your new rifle works out. "D"

Sorry for the bad luck on three deer, but the load you are using strikes with at least as much power as a 44 magnum pistol with heavy bullets, perhaps even as much as a 44 magnum from a carbine, so there is no question about it begin enough gun for whitetails within 100 yards.

I agree nordseta....I am just dumbfounded as to the results of my shots. It is killing me because these were well placed shots certainly within the range of this rifle...I just don't know what happened.

I am going to switch a few things up and see what happens. I anticipate trying T/C Maxiballs and will also try some 777 powder, as well as the Shockley's Gold with the Maxiballs and see how things work out on paper. If things look promising, I will progress to the real thing.

I appreciate everyone's comments. Will keep you informed.

That's rough man, I hope you find a load that you feel confident in, and works well for you. Like the others said, that should be plenty of bullet and powder for whitetails. I feel for you man, hope things work out.