First if all I hunt with a TC Hawken 54 cal
I am wondering about the market now days in the long range performers for the MLers
What Muzzleloader would you consider the top of the long range shooters?
Don’t turn this into a hunting ethics thread I am looking for information for long range shooting, not hunting. Thank you for your help.

The gibbs is probably the top gun right now I think. I have a fast twist .458 I built this last summer. While I plan on using it for hunting, and I know you are not talking about that. I do use it for target shooting. It is my favorite gun to shot for target. It actually shoots smaller groups than my son's Weatherby mag.
It is a green mountain 1-18 twist 32" long barrel on a TC Renegade. It has a Lyman 57 SML peep sight and a Lee Shavers globe front sight with a level.
This gun will shoot 1.5 inches and under at 100 yards with a paper patched bullet made with a LEE 459-405 HB.
I shoot this set up for target out to 300 yards with good success. I have not had the chance to shoot any groups past 100 yet. I just started to paper patch and since it got cold I haven't had the chance to shoot.
I have about 600$ into this rifle and a gibbs is going to cost about 1600. I have heard of one guy that shoots 1000 yard matches with a rifle much like mine.
This is what the rifle looks like. Ron


This is the paper patched bullet.


This is one of the last groups I shot at 100 yards. Ron

We shoot the Ultimate Firearms muzzleloaders. We can consistantly shoot good groups at 500yds and further.
wapiti7

Any good muzzle loader will shoot very far even with a round ball. The problem is ball or boolit drop, knowing the exact distance and setting the sights. Using a light, fast bullet with a sabot makes it easier because the drop is less. Once you get beyond a certain distance, you still need to know either holdover or sight settings. Those are the things that make long range hunting hard. The long, heavy, bore size boolit will still shoot farther and hit harder then the light sabot but my God, the trajectory is unreal.
1000 yd's and more is possible but the boolit might be 60-70 or more feet above the line of sight. I know my 45-70 sighted for 75 yd's is 26 feet low at 500 meters.
I consider muzzle loaders and BPCR's the archery of the gun world.

bfrshooter, I think he is talking about shooting targets. I would think that with today's laser range finders and the fact he is going to be on a rifle range I can't help but think he is going to know his distance. If he uses adjustable peep sights he should be able to dial it right in. I do it all the time with my guns.
Quigley_Sharps, Are you looking for a more traditional gun or do you want a bolt action scoped rifle shooting sabots. I forgot to ask before. I assumed you wanted a traditional gun. Ron

I know, just trying to show they work great for long targets but not so good for long hunting. Some of those things are amazing at long range.
I always wished I had a specific target rifle and would like to see all the specs that are built into the ones you fellas are using. Barrel length, twist, weight, boolit weight, powder charge etc.
I still remember some of the bench rifles in the Log Cabin years ago. I never had the money to buy one.

Ron
All im looking for is a long range front stuffer shooter with scope. It doesn’t matter beyond that. As long as it groups very well.

I have my traditional 54 Hawkins for hunting. I will be competing locally with a long range front stuffer.
Thanks for all the great info so far guys.
wapiti7 what kind of groups are you getting at 500? And what load are you using?

Ultimate Firearms muzzleloaders and the Savage smokeless come to mind. I have also done some 200 yard shooting with my Encore with 120 gr. of loose triple 7 and 250 gr. T/C shockwave bullets.

Quigley, take a look at www.whiterifles.com... I have a friend in Idaho Falls that took a pronghorn at 304 (lazered) with a White Whitetail in .504. He posts on this site as Blank. Ask him...
I have several of the Whites, and although I haven't had the opportunity to work with them in several months (I am working in one state, and the rifles are in another...), I have shot several groups of 1.25" at 100 without scaling powder, weighing bullets or anything else. The White is made for heavy conicals, and I really think if you get one you will really like it.

You might PM Underclocked, too, and ask him what he thinks. Richard posts on here as well...

Thanks guy's great looking rifles.
who is the leading barrel manufacture for Muzzle Loader rifles?

Leading in terms of volume (US made) would probably be Green Mountain.

If you are interested in a White, I know of a few for sale at the moment for some exceptional prices. The man has quite a collection and is selling most, it would seem. He primarily has 97s and custom Super 91s.

Long range (500 yards or so) is something I haven't even attempted but the rifles would be up for it. I did practice one year out to 220 yards simply because I wanted to be able to take a deer out to that distance, just once... and I did.


Among the traditional, it looks like Idaho Ron has a nice setup but you might also want to look to Pedersoli for the Gibbs, Whitworths and Tryon rifles. http://www.davide-pedersoli.com/img/Arms/S.225.jpg By the way, Doc White had Whitworth in mind when he built his inlines.

Here is a pic of a custom Super 91 very similar to a couple of those I mentioned above. This one happens to be in .410 (and no longer mine). The ones for sale are either .451 or .504 caliber.

Richard, please PM me with the information. I am looking for a .451 White. Thanks in advance.

coming at you. I've dealt with the man before and he is true to his word. But he sells exactly what is described, no more and no less, so be clear as to what you are buying (by that I mean any included accessories). The guns he is offering should all be top shelf.

Thanks for the help. (I responded to your pm with the information you requested...)

I have a Knight LRH that I bought new last fall. I have it shooting great out to 225 yards right now. I think I can extend that distance out to about 300 yards in the coming year.

The Gibbs is a dandy. I have also heard some good reports about the "Ultimate". It is too pricey for me.

IMO I could shoot my Knight LRH out to 500 yards also-If I wanted too. I personally believe somewhere between 200 and 300 yards is the limit for ethical shots with an MZ on game.

Please understand that I did not say it was impossible to shoot farther than 300 yards. And I did not say the rifles would not kill game at distances past 300 yards.

I cut my shooting off at 300 yards because of my 45-70 Sharp's rifle. I can shoot a long way with my Sharp's. The problem with shooting over 300 yards is the time it takes the bullet to travel that far. It is too easy for game to move slightly while the bullet is in flight. So if you do a lot of over 300 yard hunting, you WILL eventually make a bad hit. Tom.

Well you kinda awnsered your own question. Bench guns in any form will shoot just as good if not better than most modern stuff. Alot of old records fell only from the introduction of the .222 rem; before that the records were mostly held by muzzleloaders.
I sold my bench gun about 7 years ago. It was an underhammer gun that was copied from a Horace warner gun. It could shoot a 10 shot string in the low 3's at 600yds if I did my part. I think it is actually doing a bit better with its present owner( never could shoot for s*%t). It was 37lbs; 56 cal and shot a paper patched 685grn bullet.

turfman, What was the twist on that rifle? How much powder was the load? Thanks Ron