Ok...well it looks like my wife and kids have bought me a Hawken percussion in 50 cal from Cabelas....would have preferred a 54, but...oh well!

My only muzzleloader has been a 50 cal flintlock, that I use exclusively for shooting at paper. I would like to use this new percussion as a hunting rifle. From what I've read conical bullets are best for hunting. Do you use patches for the conicals the same way you would for round balls? Should I use sabots?

Are there any other suggestions??? I plan on using this rifle on our small california deer.

Thanks for the help!

Steven, if your rifle is 1:48 twist, it would be considered medium twist. Fast twist[1:20 - 1:32] would be used for conicals or sabots, while slow twist[1:60+] would be for balls. Longer bullets need faster twist to stabilize and fly properly. Try some lighter weight conicals - 400 grains and less, and try some sabots. One will probably shoot more accurately than other. Patches are for balls only. Start with 80 grains of 2f. This would be the minimum, but effective charge. Above your post, click on 'Find', type in twist rates, how much powder, best sabot, best conical, etc.

I've taken 9 elk now with a TC Hawken using round balls. The longest any has ran was 10 yards to a fence over the fence and maybe another 30+ yards after that. Don't underestimate the killing power of a pure lead round ball. On all but two of the elk the ball went completely through. These were all cows but compared to a deer there is no comparison.

quote:

Originally posted by Steven30127:
Ok...well it looks like my wife and kids have bought me a Hawken percussion in 50 cal from Cabelas....would have preferred a 54, but...oh well!

My only muzzleloader has been a 50 cal flintlock, that I use exclusively for shooting at paper. I would like to use this new percussion as a hunting rifle. From what I've read conical bullets are best for hunting. Do you use patches for the conicals the same way you would for round balls? Should I use sabots?

Are there any other suggestions??? I plan on using this rifle on our small california deer.

Thanks for the help!

Try some balls and a few different conicals. if sabots are legal in your area, try them too. Whichever is the most accurate is what you want. They all kill deer stone-dead.

Shoot a patched round ball and 70 to 90 grains of 2f or 3f blackpowder and you will kill any elk that walks, let alone deer. The patched round ball is deadly. Been there, done that--a lot, on deer.

For small deer pretty much anything works, as mentioned. For hunting I use the Lee "REAL" slug, they load easily enough- or at least 3 will before I need to swab which is plenty for hunting. So as mentioned just find what shoots best in your gun and you'll be fine.

Ok...so I'm at the range the other day (working with my centerfire...Hawkens is in the truck, but I don't have the munitions for it yet. I start talking to a guy there and he suggests I use Hornady Great Plains bullets (385 grain for my 50 cal) with 150 grains of pyrodex. That seemed a little excessive, since everything I'm reading suggests that the pyrodex load should be closer to around 100. Does this make sense to any of you, or is this guy trying to get me killed??? Also...if the pyrodex comes in 50 grain compressed pellets how do you minimize a load to say 90 or 110??

Second question....I went onto the pyrodex manufacturers web site and read a little about pyrodex pellets...they state that they were developed for in line ML's. Does this mean that I should not use them in my Hawken?

well...I did a search and it looks like the pellets are really for in line.

(now I'm really concerned about this guys recommendation of 150 grains!)

Ok...Last question (I hope!!!)....what type of powder would you all recommend for this wight of bullet (385) ffg or fffg ?

Well...did a search, and found out that the pellets don't work in my hawken...I think this guy may have been full of crap!

Ok...last question (I hope!!!) using these 385 grain bullets would it be better to use ffg or FFFg???

2 F has been the rule of thumb for anything over .45 cal.I would start off with that and see how it works then go from there. the 3 F builds more pressure for the same charge.

Most likely, your Hawken is 1/48" twist. It will handle round ball with patch with 70-80 grains of black, I shoot a 370 grain bullet with 90 grains of FFFg. That load will really get your attention. I can't imagine shooting 150 grains of any powder behind that big conical. Forget the pyrocrap pellets. JMO

Steven, pellets work better with 209 primer. All of the info. you've received here is good. Use 80 to 110 grains 2f - Pyrodex or 777. Start with 80, move up 5 grains at a time. Measure by volume only. One load will be more accurate. As I said earlier, 80 is plenty - but 90 may be more accurate. Just have to play around with it some. Run 'spit patch' between shots, clean GOOD when finished. All black powder and substitutes are corrosive.

Steven,

The guy is probably an inline guy. A lot of inlines now tout that they can shoot 150 grs of pyrodex pellets behind a sabot. That may be where his mind is stuck. I doubt he's trying to get you killed. I definitely would NOT shoot that hot a charge from your hawken, especially with a conical.

When I had a .50 TC hawkens rifle, I used to shoot a Buffalo Bullet Co. conical of 385 grs behind 110 grs of FFg real black powder. It was a STOUT load. I had to use a felt wad between the powder charge and the conical to keep the base of the bullet from melting as it went down the barrel. The accuracy difference was noticeable, without the wad, I had to back the powder charge down to like 85-90 grs, but with the wad, I could run 110 grs. It used to "bounce" the hammer back up to half cock under recoil.

I now have a TC blackmountain magnum in .54 cal. It's rated for 150 grs of pyrodex, but I don't run it that hard. I normally stop at 80-90 grs with a Great Plains bullet of, I believe 425 grs. Most of my ML stuff is still packed from the move, so I can't go check to be sure...

Stick to the loose powder, as you've already surmised, it's easier to vary your load, and I think your ignition would SUCK trying to use pellets. I've never tried it, even in my blackmountain mag, which uses musket caps instead of regular caps, I don't see how you could ignite the pellets.

To help put loads into perspective, remember the original 45-70 load by definition was 70 grains of BP and a 405 gr bullet. I rarely shoot over 80 yards in a hunting situation where I am, and I find that 85 grains of 3f with a 320 gr slug is an effective load to shoot from a tree stand, but I could probably go down to 50 gr and still be effective.

If you can get THE Holy Black Powder forget that pyrodex ever existed.
Pellets inc ease the cost also.

FFFG Black powder 50 cal PRB with 40-90 grains for target loads and 80- 100 for other things.

PRB is NOT a long range solution, but then the goal of a BP hunter, is to see how close he can get to the quarry, not how far away he can shoot game.