I have an inline, 50 caliber muzzle loader with a 1:28" twist and am wondering which would be a good bullet for elk and which would be good for mule deer. I have been shooting the Hornady 300 grain 44 HP/XTP caliber with sabot. I have them going around 1800 fps. with a 125 grain load of Pirodex. Then I shot some 200 grain TC Shock Wave bullets, again with 125 grains of Pirodex. Both seemed to shoot pretty tight, but the TCs had a lot less recoil. I guess what my question is, if 165 grains of bullet are good enough for elk coming from a 30-06, why should you need more lead from a muzzle loader. And if that is the case, what bullet would you recommend. I would like something cheap enough and with enough reduced recoil that I can shoot a lot at the range to make up for any poor marksmanship.

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if 165 grains of bullet are good enough for elk coming from a 30-06, why should you need more lead from a muzzle loader

It's largely a question of ballistic efficiency. A 180 gr spitzer in a 30'06 ranges pretty well. A 180 grain 50 caliber is a roundball, which gives up 1/2 its velocity and 2/3 its energy by the time it crosses the 100 yard line. An inline using .429 pistol bullets delivers performance between that of a 44 magnum carbine and the 444 Marlin. A 200 gr bullet is on the light side in a 44. I've seen folks doing good work at 100 yards with sabot'd 300 gr Hornadys in their fifty caliber inlines. They say it makes a fine deer load at iron sight ranges (no scopes for our M/L season). A 50 using bore diameter conicals works more like a 45/70. I've never used anything lighter than a 295 gr powerbelt conical in my Encore 209x50 (but all my M/L kills have been with roundball flintlocks) and would try something heavier were I ever to hunt elk with an inline. If you're troubled by recoil try cutting your powder charge pack to 100 grains or so, try 250s instead of 300s, and have your gun fitted with a better recoil pad.

Here is a summary of what I have read on this subject from different sources:

1) The 30-06 uses much higher velocity to produce more hyrdrostatic shock that helps produce quick kills. Don't know if it's true, but I read somewhere that below 2400 fps MV there is a significant reduction in hydrostaic shock.

2) The 50 cal muzzleloader is a different situation. Lighter bullets may not penetrate adequately in certain situations (elk shoulder shot). Of course this also depends on bullet construction. Is the shockwave a repackaged barnes bullet?

3) Where you are it's safe to say you may get longer shots. In a ML, the bullet weight is a Rabbit vs the Tortoise situation. The lighter bullet has faster muzzle velocity, but loses velocity and, more importantly energy, faster than a heavier bullet with a higher ballistic coefficient. So, a 300 gr bullet may be going slower at the muzzle, but will more likely than not still have adequate energy at 200yds, where the initially faster 200gr bullet may not.

4) Practice to your hearts content with the 200gr bullet and maybe use it on mule deer. Be sure to know the different POI for the 300gr and use that on elk. You may want to consider a 300gr shockwave (if they have it) or one of the heavier barnes bullets. I use the barnes 285 spitfire for hunting and the hornady 230gr XTP ($20 for 100 plus sabots) for practice. Just be sure to know the different POI! At the range recoil can be fatiquing, but while hunting you will not notice it. Good luck.

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I guess what my question is, if 165 grains of bullet are good enough for elk coming from a 30-06, why should you need more lead from a muzzle loader.

Sectional density meaning relative length for caliber equating to adequate penetration.

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Originally posted by quarterbore:
I have an inline, 50 caliber muzzle loader with a 1:28" twist and am wondering which would be a good bullet for elk and which would be good for mule deer. I have been shooting the Hornady 300 grain 44 HP/XTP caliber with sabot. I have them going around 1800 fps. with a 125 grain load of Pirodex. Then I shot some 200 grain TC Shock Wave bullets, again with 125 grains of Pirodex. Both seemed to shoot pretty tight, but the TCs had a lot less recoil. I guess what my question is, if 165 grains of bullet are good enough for elk coming from a 30-06, why should you need more lead from a muzzle loader. And if that is the case, what bullet would you recommend. I would like something cheap enough and with enough reduced recoil that I can shoot a lot at the range to make up for any poor marksmanship.

300gr Barnes Expanders stabilize out of my 1:28 twist and perform exceptionally well. I do not see myself going back to a pistol bullet in that rifle again. As far as low recoil and cheap, look at a Savage shooting the Barnes .458 SSP. This will be my route for next year on big game that bites back. I'd wager that w/ the right smokless charge that it would be dandy on elk, in fact, it would probably be dandy on African plains game as well.

GVA

Thanks for the advice so far.
After posting my question I started to think about the energy produced by a given weight of bullet. If E=MC2 (squared) then if I have a heaver bullet but it is going slower then the energy is reduced. If it is going slower by half then the energy is reduced by a whole bunch.
The guru at Sportman's Wearhouse says that the longer the bullet the tighter the groups with that 1:20" twist. (He has the same model rifle that I do.) He told me that I shouldn't be shooting pistol bullets anymore. (And he was the one that put me up to that in the first place.) He also says that anything over 100 grains is a waste of powder for that lenght of barrel.
So, where can I get a good deal on power belts?

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The guru at Sportman's Wearhouse says that the longer the bullet the tighter the groups with that 1:20" twist. (He has the same model rifle that I do.) He told me that I shouldn't be shooting pistol bullets anymore. (And he was the one that put me up to that in the first place.) He also says that anything over 100 grains is a waste of powder for that lenght of barrel.
So, where can I get a good deal on power belts?

If you heard it from any salesman at SW I'd let it go in one ear and right out the other.

I think you will be disatisfied w/ the PBs. They are very soft and probably more suitable for Mulies and Whitetails. There are piles of elk taken with them in CO every year mainly because they are legal and sabots are not. My CO guide says the PB performance is spotty on elk. If you decide you must use PBs, you probably should use the heavy versions.

If your 300XTPs are grouping well, you should have no problem taking either of those game animals. If you want great accuracy and flatter trajectory than the XTP, try the 300 grain SST from Hornady or the 300 Shockwave (both the same bullet).

Good Luck

Reloader

You have tension going on here: you need a bore-size conical in Colorado, and in a .50 cal ML rifle like the Savage that .458 Barnes SSP will be rattling down the barrel on firing, if it doesn't fall out first. Colorado also requires a .50 for elk, and the bullet can't be longer than twice its diameter.

In the "No Excuses" conical that translates to his 460 grain bullet.

You can't legally shoot saboted pistol bullets like the Hornady 300 in Colorado.

I used the 348 grain PB last year, but I am looking for another bullet this year.

jim

Jim, I responded to his first post on this discussion. I completely missed where he asked about elk in Colorado.

GVA