I decided early last year to buy a muzzleloader and start hunting with it. After a lot of research which may not have been the best, I decided on a Knight 52. I just want to share my experiences and get some input from those of you who know way more than I do. I have shot it over 800 times in an effort to understand the process. I have shot it with 100 Gr. of 777 all the way up to 150 Gr. I bought the gun to hunt elk with so I have stayed on the upper end of the load and bullet scale most of the time. I am shooting a 375 Gr. Red Hot bullet made by Barnes. Once I learned the importance of seating the bullet consistently things became fun. I shot competitive rifle a good part of my childhood and I can tell this muzzleloading thing can be frustrating. I can now shoot sub 1" groups at 100 yards and 2 to 3" groups at 200 yards. I still get the wild flyer every once and while which at 200 yards may not even hit the paper. I have shot through a chronograph at max. powder and been consistant at 1950 ft. I am kinda locked into the Barnes bullet since no one else is manufacturing a 52 cal bullet that I have been able to find. I am wondering if there are other options to test bullet wise and if there are better or different powder options out there. Anybody out there have any experience with this gun or other ideas they would like to share?

Thanks Mark

Don't know much about the 52, but I do know that many Barnes Bullets like the 'regular" Harvester plastic sabots. It may put a stop to those occasional flyers.

If that doesn't do the trick & you already tried backing off the powder volume by 5-10 grains, then put a dab of bore butter around the plastic sabot before loading.

I think between backing off the powder, trying a different sabot maker or greasing the sabot should help you solve that flyer problem.

http://www.cabelas.com/products/Cpod0012633.jsp

quote:

Originally posted by Triple_Se7en:
Don't know much about the 52, but I do know that many Barnes Bullets like the 'regular" Harvester plastic sabots. It may put a stop to those occasional flyers.

If that doesn't do the trick & you already tried backing off the powder volume by 5-10 grains, then put a dab of bore butter around the plastic sabot before loading.

I think between backing off the powder, trying a different sabot maker or greasing the sabot should help you solve that flyer problem.

http://www.cabelas.com/products/Cpod0012633.jsp

I have read not to lubricate the bore or sabot, now im confused.

Putting a pinch of bore butter on the outside of the plastic sabot is fine.

In my opinion, lubing the bore walls with bore butter is not fine.

That should alleviate your confusion!

I have been using bore butter in my barrels for many years. When I clean my guns I run a patch with bore butter down the barrel and store them. When I get ready to shoot them, I just pour the powder down the barrel and load a bullet and shoot it. Like I said, I have been doing it for many years. I have never had a load fail to fire. I have let the powder sit in the barrel a full week while out hunting and the gun still fired when I pulled the trigger.

Now I do not put a bunch of bore butter on the patch, just enough to leave a light file in the barrel. I have also put a small amount on the skirt of the sabot.

My Encores are getting 1 to 1 1/4 inch groups at 100 yards.

Al my buddies do the same thing with there muzzleloader's It seasons the barrel also.

quote:

Originally posted by Triple_Se7en:
Putting a pinch of bore butter on the outside of the plastic sabot is fine.

In my opinion, lubing the bore walls with bore butter is not fine.

That should alleviate your confusion!

Thanks for clearing up the matter.

Huntelk hasn't posted since, but hopefully he is still around.

I've been thinking about this a bit, and one explanation I have come up with is if the sabot is allowed to soak in a hot barrel it can behave like this.

Also, I've looked at the knight website, and it appears you are stuck with one bullet/sabot combination? I may be wrong, hopefully I am, but I did not see 52 cal sabots for sale without bullets.

With this gun, personally I'd experiment with solid cast slugs. I'm sure Dixie Gun Works would have a bunch of 52 cal moulds, or RCBS makes a rather pricey adjustable one ($72). A more economical way might be to get a LEE R.E.A.L 50 cal slug mould and lap it out a little, according to the box I have they are .517 in diameter. single cavity 50 cal mould is $15, probably less than a dozen sabots.

Thanks for the info. I have looked high and low and unless I do something like you suggested I am stuck. I keep hoping someone will get on the wagon and start producing bullets and sabots, however with the populartiy of the 50 cal, I am more than likely out of luck. I really like the way the gun shoots and the energy it can deliver but it may not have been the gun to buy based on the odd caliber. Thanks for your help

quote:

It seasons the barrel also.

That is not true. TC has totally gotten away from that myth and you should too. The cast iron frying pans have been gone on TC owners manuals for years.

My opinion is that you are doing a disservice to your muzzleloader by letting it get closer than 10 ft. away from a tube of that junk. "Bore Butter" is old news and outdated. That is just my opinion mind you.

Huntelk,

Can you measure one of your sabots with a caliper or micrometer? Another easy thing to do if you can work metal would be to make a sizer die and simply size down some 54 caliber slugs.

I was curious however, how much bigger a 54 cal sabot would be.

LEE makes a 54 caliber minie ball mould for $18, be cheap enough to buy one and cast a bunch of slugs and size them down 20 thou, but I do not know how accurate they would be. My hunch is they'd probably shoot OK to at least 100 yards

Just some more ideas.

I was doing some researching and going through old threads and decided to bring this back to the top.
I have used Bore Butter for over 20 yrs and have had ZERO problems with it. I use it in my muzzleloaders and my BPCR guns.
Reading the older posts about Bore Butter is junk and it doesn't season a barrel.
I found this from T/C website:

6: Is T/C's Natural Lube 1000 Plus Bore Butter really that good? How does it work?
It sure is, and if you've got some friends who are using it, ask them. Our All Natural "Bore Butter" is absent of any petroleum based oil, and contains an ingredient which seasons the bore with repeated use, just as you would season a cast iron skillet. Tar, used to pave highways, is made by heating a petroleum based oil. In other words, heat plus petroleum oil equals tar! That's what causes the heavy fouling when shooting a muzzleloader with conventional petroleum based lubes. The problem of heavy fouling was one not encountered in the old days, as the oils used then were all natural' whale oil, bear fat, deer tallow, etc. Petroleum based oils were not discovered until the mid 1800's, and during the Civil War, fouling did become a problem.

I clean with hot, soapy water and finish with Bore Butter and will continue to use it.

Just my opinion.
Use what you like.

Mark, sorry it took me so long to get this info but here it is. .4745 with less than 1/2 of 1000th difference in 10 bullets. Any information or ideas are appreciated.

Thanks, Mark

Huntelk,

OK, I suppose the bullet is .4745, what is the OD of the sabot? Just for grins, I was wondering if an empty 54 caliber sabot can fit, then you can figure out a bullet that will fill it up.

Also, have you thought about whether or not heat soak may be responsible for your flyers(it softens the plastic in the sabots)?

I don't like to spend peoples money on wild goose chases but Lee makes a .510 sizer die, and the mould is $19

http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=382559

And the sizer which fits in a press is $13

http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=155655

I'm guessing that .510 might work pretty good for sizing anyway, and you'll be able to shoot this gun a bit without it putting a dent in the bank account.

Just a couple of thoughts.

quote:

Originally posted by Ammohouse:
I was doing some researching and going through old threads and decided to bring this back to the top.
I have used Bore Butter for over 20 yrs and have had ZERO problems with it. I use it in my muzzleloaders and my BPCR guns.
Reading the older posts about Bore Butter is junk and it doesn't season a barrel.
I found this from T/C website:

6: Is T/C's Natural Lube 1000 Plus Bore Butter really that good? How does it work?
It sure is, and if you've got some friends who are using it, ask them. Our All Natural "Bore Butter" is absent of any petroleum based oil, and contains an ingredient which seasons the bore with repeated use, just as you would season a cast iron skillet. Tar, used to pave highways, is made by heating a petroleum based oil. In other words, heat plus petroleum oil equals tar! That's what causes the heavy fouling when shooting a muzzleloader with conventional petroleum based lubes. The problem of heavy fouling was one not encountered in the old days, as the oils used then were all natural' whale oil, bear fat, deer tallow, etc. Petroleum based oils were not discovered until the mid 1800's, and during the Civil War, fouling did become a problem.

I clean with hot, soapy water and finish with Bore Butter and will continue to use it.

Just my opinion.
Use what you like.

Thank you. You have proved my point. The T/C website does not list the "seasoning" aspect of "Bore Butter" anymore. They know better now.

Thanks again.