Hi Brent,
Go back and read my post. I never claimed I could shoot a 1/2", I said plenty of people are doing that. I have 3 sub 1" MLers but I've never shot any better than a .8".
And where did you get the 500 grain bullet from? I've never shot anything larger than 300 grains and favor the 250 grainers. As you can see by the picture owensby posted he is shooting 195 grain Barnes bullets. Great target by the way!
I'm not sure my guns are capable of 1/2" groups, nor probably will ever find out. I use the range to research loads and bullets for hunting and I strive for the 1" group. To me that is all the accuracy I need from a hunting rifle and once I've achieved that in a load I start adding velocity until my groups go over 1" and call it good.

One or even occasional 1/2" groups of only three shots is not 1/2" moa. Heck that is done with roundballs and flintlocks. I've done it. But to produce it on demand, every time or nearly everytime is another matter.

As for the 550 gr bullets, I swage them myself; see
http://www.iastate.edu/~codi/PPB/PPB.html The BCs on these bullets, high as they are, are in no way similar to the BCs of modern centerfire bullets. The BCs of those teeny 195 gr bullets would be under 0.3, probably under 0.25. Hardly long range material.

In the bp cartridge game we have a a little challenge out there for all those that think they can shoot minute of angle or better. 4 groups of 5 shots each. All groups under 1" at 100, or 2" at 200. Nationally, only two people have documented proof of doing it.

I have shot many 1-hole groups with all kinds of rifles, but that doesn't make those rifles or me sub MOA shooters. If I could do it all the time, I'd win every match on the planet. I shoot a lot of matches and I know what it takes to win.

Brent

Omega,
I sure wish you lived in Iowa, I'd be more than willing to wager a decent amount to see you shoot 1/2" groups with a muzzleloader at 100 yds.
First you wanted to wager to see it done now you have done it yourself,
As I said it has been done with different muzzleloaders and more than once.It does happen every 3-shot group or 5-shot but it does happen enough to say that the rifle is pretty accurate.I have one that on ocassion will shoot 1 in at 200 yds,and has done it more than once.The bottom target is with a 250 gr bullet,5-shot @100 yds

I save good targets too, but do you save the not so good ones? What do they look like?

If you do that all the time, then you are the greatest shot I know, and certainly National champ material if you show up at Friendship for the championships.

The point is, accuracy is not measured by your best groups, but something more like your average groups. I don't claim to be MOA accurate even though I shoot a fair number of MOA groups. That's because I willingly admit to many > MOA groups as well.

Like I said, I'd be happy to loose to you, just to see it done.

Brent

As I said,I only shoot to please my self,not interested in shooting compition,or against anyone else,Really to old for it.I do shoot at least once a week and sometimes 2or 3 times.I have seen guys that are really good shoot one hole groups @100 yds one day and couldn't come close the next day,would you say their rifles weren't accurate?I shoot regular rifles too and they group very well too.The first muzzleloader I shot was back in the 1940's and it was a flintlock,but not a reproduction,and have had several side locks through the years,and after a lot of trying this and that and a lot of practice they shot just as good with round balls and conicals.I don't keep all my targets,wouldn't have a place to store them all,but do keep the ones I shoot while working up a load and some of them sure aren't 1 inch groups let alone 1/2 in groups.
Omega: the encore has had a triger job(2 lbs)oversized hinge pin ,and free floated as best I could,its a wood stock.It will shoot little groups with the 195 barnes and 200 sst's with 105 grs of pyro-select.Haven't really tried any heaver bullets because I like shooting the bullets around 200 grs.
The target with the knight was with a 225,PB bullet and 110 grs of pyro-select,in a knight disc 45 cal.I took a deer with it the year before last @155yds,dropped where it stood.Then sold it to my brother and he took deer with it using 195 PB bullet and 110 grs of pyro-select,He put his scope on it and I zeroed it in for him shot enough groups to get less than an inch @100 yds with his combo.He took 2 deer with it this year.
The 5-shot group was with a savage using 44.5 grs of N110 and a 250 shockwave bullet.THe savage and the knight only had triger jobs on them which I did myself.other than that they were out of the box.
Have a ruger 77/50 and have shot less than inch groups with it,and a 45 cal. encore wich I have had for 2 years and have not got a desent 2 in group out of yet.

I think the fact that there are 3 different makes of rifles involved shows that you know a little bit about what you are doing and are a heckuva shot! What is your furthest kill shot?

Years ago,I shot a 11point buck way out there,didn't have a range finder back then,was using a T/C secnaca in 45 cal/70 grs black powder and a T/C conical.aimed a foot over the bucks back and it dropped where it stood,thats what you call a s--- shot.Just got real lucky.using the same rifle but with a scope on it shot a 4 point @125yds (range finder yds)in the throat.Another one of those shots.then the one at 155yds with the knight 45 cal.those were the longests shots yet.Have taken 1 to 3 deer per year (except 1991 and 2001 didn't get to hunt because of sickness) since our state has had a muzzleloader season.
Plan on getting longer shots in the future with the savage,I know its good to 200 yds.Leaving for a hog hunt tomorrow hoping to get a shot at one with the savage.
I think we got off the question a little,comparing the T/C hawken to modern muzzleloaders.at one time I had one of those to,only thing wrong with it it was a little heavy,but if you have a scope on it it will shoot as good as the inlines,really depends on the shooter and what he wants to shoot in it,If I am not mistaken it has a 1;48 in twist so you can shoot conicals or round balls in it,have 2 friends that shoot the hawken one shoots round balls and the other shoots conicals,they kill deer,but really haven't seen them shoot,so don't know what size groups they get.When the sabots first came out I met a guy in Virgina shooting them in his hawken,according to him they shot good.I remember him showing them to me and it was the first time I had heared of a sabot.