Hello Im sure some one here has a few suggestions for a cleaner burn.

I have not shot a muzzle loader in about 20 years and things have really changes from the

old triple FFF days. I sure like the idea of the pellets and such. I picked up a remington 50 cal and would like to start shooting it.

I was hoping some of the newer powders would shorten the clean rigors that I remember from the old days.

Any help is appreciated

Don

Cleanest I've shot is Triple 7, Goex Pinnacle is supposed to be good too, but I haven't tried any yet.

I shoot Pyrodex RS because of the price. I bought a lot of it on clearance at Wal-Mart after season closed.

I have been recomended Black Mag3 by different shooters on this forum. It is quite expensive below is a link to there sight.

http://magkor.com/index.html

Black Mag'3 is the cleanest of any I have tried to date. Following is list of cleanest from best to worst in my opinion:
Black Mag'3, Clean Shot (or American Pioneer which is same stuff) fffg version, Pinnacle fffg, Tripple Seven if you do not get the dreaded crud ring which I do which in my case sends this to the bottom of the list, Pyrodex "P", Pyrodex RS Select, Pyrodex RS, Goex ffg. To date these are what I have tried. I did not find much difference in fouling using either the loose powder or pellets where available. I did find that the finer powder fffg works a little better and is a little cleaner than ffg. Hope this helps. If you have an Omega I would be careful trying Tripple Seven as it does not work well in some Omega rifles (like mine).

Just reread your post and with the Remington you will have to deal with cleaning the bolt to keep it functioning so the amount of blowback and what the formation of it is will be of concern to you. Personally I would try to find the Black Mag'3 or Pinnacle fffg and if that fails try to find American Pioneer fffg. Black Mag'3 by the way only comes as a fine fffg powder they do not make a more coarse version as they found out long ago that the ffg version of the ascorbic acid based powders is not the best for repeatability. If you use the ascorbic acid based powders which the three above are, pack the charge firmly for best results.

777 pellets are great BUT, I couldn't get them to function in a Rem. MLer because they require a good bit of fire to ignite. The rem nipple design lets most of the 209 primer fire escape w/o going through the nipple. I have a relative that had a really nice buck get away from him last season because 777 pellets didn't go off in his rem at the moment of truth. I also experienced several misfire w/ the 777 pellets in a rem mlers while sighting one in one day (even cleaned, it would hang fire). I switched to Pyrodex Pellets in that MLer and it fires instantaneously every time.

777 from BassPro is the cheapest "Clean" powder around here that I've found. You should be able to ignite ff or fff easily in that MLer. I would definitely give some 777 powder a try if you want a cleaner, less corrosive, and sulfurless burn.

777 pellets work great out of my Knight w/ extreme breech plug design. It also works well in the CVA optima design.

Good Luck!

Reloader

In my Rem 700 ML (stainless 24" barrel)I'm using 100 grains of triple 7 FF loose powder, a Hornady "High Velocity" black sabot and a 250 grain TC "Power Tip Mag Express" bullet (bought as seconds).....velocity is right at 2000 fps with 3 shot groups at .75" @ 100 yards.I am using a 209 primer. I have tried lots of different combinations but this is the best and most consistent. My farthest kill with this rifle so far was a whitetail doe at 204 lasered yards.... bang flop!

When I am shooting groups, I run a damp patch (water) through the barrel between each shot and follow that with a patch soaked with cheap brake cleaner (walmart).....I want the barrel completely clean and dry for each shot.....I am not worried about how it shoots the second or third shot......I want the FIRST shot from a cold dry barrel to hit exactly where I aim....STAY away from bore butter or anything like it in the barrel......I use Rem oil or regular gun oil and clean it out completely with brake cleaner before shooting......

If your rifle is new, I'd suggest that you polish the barrel with a tight fitting patch coated with JB or Rem clean bore paste....about 100 passes each direction......

Be sure you disassemble the bolt and clean after each shooting session......if not, you will end up with a rusted mess.

Gohuntin

Mine has the #11cap on it. I always had good luck using them in my Hawkens the should work alright given the fact they dont have to change directions to ignite the powder.

with them i cant see how a guy could get any blowback.

By the way all of you who posted here with your experiance and knowlage

I appreciate it
Don

I use Triple "7" FG in my .50 T/C Black Diamond: 90 grains (Volume) with sabot .452" 250 grain XTP Hornady bullet. Fired by a 209 primer. Triple "7" seems to be the best performing M/L blackpowder subsitute available today.

I wouldn't use a #11 cap with pellets.......in fact, I would never go back to a cap ignition!

The 209 primers are virtually waterproof.....I forgot some in the pocket of my hunting jacket and they went through the laundry.....they still fired! I'll leave the percussion caps for the side hammer guns and use the 209s in my inline!!

I have never had any ignition issues with the musket or #11 caps and find them easier to get on the nipples than stuffing the 209's wherever. To make a waterproof seal just cover the nipple with saran plastic wrap before you cap it.

The first thing written on 777 pellet boxes is "WARNING-For 50 Caliber In-Line Muzzleloaders w/209 Primers".
Pyrodex pellets have a small layer of true black powder on one end to ease ignition by caps and the like. This is just what I know about them.

quote:

Originally posted by rickt300:
I have never had any ignition issues with the musket or #11 caps and find them easier to get on the nipples than stuffing the 209's wherever. To make a waterproof seal just cover the nipple with saran plastic wrap before you cap it.

I have had multiple occurrences of both #11 and musket caps that contained no priming compound.....add that to the fact that they are far from waterproof......and it's easy to understand why I use 209 primers......if you have never had any ignition issues with caps.....you just haven't had ignition issues YET!

Sure seems like a 209 primer is overkill to ignite black powder or substitutes. No way all the flash from a 209 can go through a 0.030" hole so flashes back sooting everything around it......including your scope if your MZ isn't designed to prevent this. In more than one MZ that I have seen converted to 209 primers, the groups opened up.....change back and groups go to normal.

More fire than you need is better than a click with no boom anyday!!

I bought a stainless 700 ML when they were first available.....in fact, I ordered mine from a very large Remington dealer before they were available and had to wait to get it.....I started out with #11 caps and had multiple cap failures with 3 different brands of caps...... ordered a musket cap conversion from Bloomquist before Remington made one and had multiple cap failures......then to 209s with the conversion that Cabelas sold long before Remington made one.....never, not once, have I had a fail to fire or a hangfire with 209s!

Say what you want, but if it don't go bang when I pull the trigger......it is worthless......if that means I have to clean a little more often (I haven't found that to be true).....that is a small price to pay!!

All I know is that the two Whites I own have nipples specifically designed for the #11 caps. And they fit so tightly it is almost impossible to get them off w/out damaging the cap. So at the end of the day I discharge the rifle, and all is well.
A good friend of mine told me that he tried the 209s in his White and had the same experience Hog Wild talked about... the hotter primer blew the groups apart.

And I will NEVER own a mz that uses discs and 209s. Have a couple of friends with them, and they aren't very impressed, either. Nothing personal, guys, but I have been to the range with both guys when they were shooting their Knights, and "No thank you."... I will stay with my Whites and their #11 priming systems.

I have found that the 209 Primers with T/C rifles leave a carbon ring inside the barrel every shot , with # 11 percussion caps no Carbon rings ! I converted one of my inlines to except the 209 and used a thompson center #7805 1/4-28 thread primer adapter no Carbon ring ! but lots of flash at breach leaving white residue on bottom of scope T/C design is flawed for using 209 primers ! Encores are a fine rifle but the flaws outweigh the good with black powder ,horrible dirty after 1 shot at action after several shots the fireing pin won't work ,not a rifle I want for survival situation ! I have a 7mm express for the encore and it's great ! the .50 shoots the first shot dead on after that fouling takes over , stuck ramrods !fireing pin stuck ! filthy breach !ETC. T/C can do better !

quote:

And I will NEVER own a mz that uses discs and 209s. Have a couple of friends with them, and they aren't very impressed, either. Nothing personal, guys, but I have been to the range with both guys when they were shooting their Knights, and "No thank you."... I will stay with my Whites and their #11 priming systems.

Once you get a good pattern down the disc Extreme system is a very easy, clean, and reliable system to have.

I take several of the disc preprimed when I go to the range and they are a snap to load and unload. Not as easy as my Savage for sure but much easier than the Traditions and Remingtons I've dealt w/.

When I'm at home or at the range I take the used disc w/ primers in them and set them on top of a .380 auto or 9mm hull, one quick rap w/ a center punch and hammer and your ready to install another primer. The disc can be used over and over but, I try to take new ones out hunting to ensure a good waterproof seal.

That rifle is more accurate now w/ the Disc Extreme Kit than it was w/ the #11 set-up and talk about hard to get a spent primer of that #11 nipple, no thanks.

Reloader

For me, American Pioneer is by far the cleanest I've ever witnessed. I tried 777 this year as well, and it is clean but still falls behind the Am. Pion.

I'm satisfied with my Knight rifle, the disc, and the 209 primer. I've shot Knights and TC, never owned a White, but one of my mentors said they are the best.

American Pioneer is the cleanest for me...

hodgon customer service tells me that most 209 primers are to hot for 777 pellets. they say that you may loose accuratcy be cause the pellets and bullet may be move before the powder lights. they told me to shoot standard winchester 209's because they have a little less power. they also said they were working on a less powerful 209 made fo 777 pellets.

another thing they say 777 is alot more likely to draw moisture than regular pyrodex pellets.
watch how you store it ,i vacuum seal mine for summer.

Remington makes primers especially for the inlines with 777 and they work really well.

MLKeith,

What is the crud ring with 777 pellets? I had not heard of that? Thanks.

quote:

was

I have tried to reply to duckster three times and I keep getting an error message about no title or something like that. This is the screwest site I have been on. If this one goes through I will be surprised. I will do this one more time and that is it. The 777 crud ring forms in some but not all rifles. My Omega has it bad. It is a hard carbon like ring just forward of the powder charge that makes seating a second shot bullet on the powder charge impossible as it stops short of the powder. If you do not experience this you do not have the ring. In my rifle it takes a brass brush to get it out with the best fix which is the .25ACP conversion.

I haven't seen that, is it visible when looking from the breech, during cleaning?

The 209's may be better but where I am from (Idaho) they are not legal. I use the No. 11's and have had little problem. The way I see it, the hang-ups with the No. 11's are just part of muzzleloading.

I tried the #209 conversion in my Remingtom MLS .50 cal so I could shoot 777 pellets. I had many hangfires and accuracy was shot to hell. I went back to #11 caps and Pyrodex pellets.

The only reason I wanted to shoot 777 was ease of cleaning. Fooey! Pyrodex pellets go Boom! every time I squeeze the trigger, they go Boom! As Reloader stated, ignition is instantaneous.

I have come to the conclusion that I'd rather spend some time cleaning a rifle that went Boom! and killed the deer, then went that didn't and the deer ran off, never to be seen again. They ain't that hard to clean!