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Figured I'd post this before one of you guys did! CVA has an electronic ignition out- http://cva.com/products/rifle_electra.htm Our new Electra™ rifles are like no other muzzleloaders on earth, featuring the patent pending ARC™ Electronic Ignition. The ARC™ Electronic Ignition is completely sealed from the elements – there’s not even a flash-hole. No parts other than the barrel have to be cleaned of fouling – ever! Ignition is absolutely instantaneous. The trigger pull is incredibly clean – because the “trigger†is really an electronic switch. And since there is no pressure explosion, as there is with primer ignitions, there is no accuracy robbing displacement of the charge – allowing full and consistent burn of the powder charge at the bottom of the barrel. One 9-volt battery will reliably fire the rifle at least 500 times, and the battery will last 600 hours (25 days) – and that’s if it is left turned on! The Electra is the ultimate muzzleloader in ease-of-use, rapid reloading, ease-of-cleaning and never-fail reliability. And all Electras are equipped with a premium Bergara Barrel – for unmatched accuracy. It'll be interesting to see how these shoot, how quick the ignition is, how does it deal with fouling, etc. Other than saving the price of caps, what advantages does it have? Anyway, hope we can keep the discussion civil!  for every hour in front of the computer you should have 3 hours outside | ||
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The battery will never fail sitting at home......it will be when sitting out on stand with the wind howling and trees popping from the cold.....oh yeah...and it will be the buck of a lifetime. When you pull the trigger.....opps,I mean switch....grin...... NOTHING will happen, its called murphys law and it really plagues electronic items just when you need em' most. I guess it will tend to make things.....more.....  sporting .......laffin' Hows that for a good creme pie lob?woods Savage ML'er....... a New Generation Traditionalist....... Thanks to Henry Ball | |||
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Is there a reason why firearms manufacturers keep coming up with the answer to question the shooting public has NEVER asked? Don't limit your challenges . . . Challenge your limits | |||
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The question is implicit in plastic stocks and stainless steel barrels, receivers drilled and tapped for scope mounts, plastic 209 primer holders, special 209s for muzzleloaders, 25 ACP conversions for 209s to fight the dreaded crud ring, speedbreeches for easy cleaning, unblackpowders for less cleaning between shots, smokeless powder muzzleloaders for fouling free shooting altogether, etc, etc, etc... As CVA assures us "The Electra is the ultimate muzzleloader in ease-of-use, rapid reloading, ease-of-cleaning and never-fail reliability." They're going to sell a boatload of them. | |||
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Ahhhhhh.....big difference......the public has asked for and responded to by purchasing, the above mentioned changes. One needs to only look at the sales of modern ML'ers with these options to realize there is a huge market and demand for options that really make the ML'er easier and better to use for hunting. If this thread is to simply become a platform for general bashing by those you want to stay in the past and primitive hunt.....than at least understand that the buying public will always dictate what is on shelves and developed for the current ML'ing market. Scopes - stainless - 209's - laminates & synthetics - and cleaner burning powders will continue to dominate the ML'er market.....its what hunters want. Simple market demand.....like it or not  But.....the electronic ignition has failed already in the centerfire market and proved to be something the shooting public didn't want.......hence it will almost certainly die the same death.......it makes things less user friendly and complicated....and worst of all, less reliable. And thats not what the hunters want......newest developments bare this out in sales.
This quote makes it clear why a given offered option offered for a firearm will succeed or fail guys. Its not what the minority wants, or the way they think everyone should hunt.....its what the majority wants, the way they want to hunt.....and most important.... what they ask for ! Don't hear any majorities asking for a primed cartridge or an electric trigger yet, just a way to keep it cleaner and less corosive, maybe a bit more accurate and with better range, and by all means more reliable. The ML'er manufactures have a pretty good idea what the buying public wants and will buy.....just got a feeling its not a battery powered trigger  Far as the stainless/synthetic scoped sabot spitters, with a taste for less corosive flavored propellants......well......accept or reject......they're here to stay, and going strong  pass the smokeless.......woods Savage ML'er....... a New Generation Traditionalist....... Thanks to Henry Ball | |||
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True, but the main reason people buy these newfangled innovations is because they want their ML to perform as close as possible to their CF rifles, and be able to hunt during the muzzle loading or primitive seasons. Not because they love muzzle loading weapons (in most cases). Unfortunately, these "improvements" which have doubled & tripled the killing range, are removing the justification for these special seasons; which may render them useless. That is, unless the owners prefer them to their modern rifles during the regular season. This, I doubt will happen. There is, and always will be, a segment of the hunting population who prefers a different hunting/shooting experience than a modern scoped, plastic stocked, 209, sabot shooting etc etc muzzleloader. They are the ones who enjoy the experience of using a historic shooting system & the challenge of a close hunt. While they may not be in the majority, they will be a niche market that will never be sold on an electric ignition gun. Just as they refuse to use the other modernized, mass market modifications mentioned above. BTW, the majority isn't always right. They elected Bill Clinton.. twice, and what's the most popular show on TV... American Idol..? Rest my case  . How long is the extention cord that comes with that gun? .Before you get your panties in a wad, I'm not against modern ML's. I just would hate to see them destroy the special time that black powder enthusiasts have to hunt with similarly equipped hunters. Maybe they should designate the seasons for "ML weapons" & "primitive" weapons as some have done & others are considering. I don't hate inlines. I even shoot an inline pistol in ML competition (modified Yazel) and have won the sate shoot with it last 3 years. But, it uses percussion caps, 3f Swiss powder & a patched round ball  )Now if they could make a capacitor discharge flintlock....  "You can lead a horticulture, ... but you can't make 'er think" Florida Gardener | |||
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Don't mean to bash. While I prefer my roundball rocklocks I sometimes hunt with my 209x50 Encore which has never been fed anything but pellets.
Electronic ignition in centerfire rifles has failed so far because it's more expensive and offers very little by way of increased performance for most shooters. Electric ignition in muzzleloaders stands every chance of being less expensive in the long run and offers the very real prospect of being easier to maintain.
When the first modern inline was offered no one had asked for it. Most folks didn't know quite what to think of it. It's inventor's created a tremendous demand by offering a simpler to use and easier to clean hunting implement. | |||
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My exact point made above......the demand quickly follows after reliability - ease of use - low maintance - and increased range.
Not the case at all......the justification for these extra seasons is herd control and money to the state. These reasons will always be there......... the sky ain't falling and neither are the ML'er seasons going away. 
Heck I bet a lot of the majority will never be sold on an electric trigger either....I'm not. Better start carrying a pocketful of batteries and a trigger warmer up here 
Hey no wads here (pardon the pun) I'm not against any style of ML'er at all.......just guys like you that finish their statement by making the season exclusionary to themselves and others that use the same type ML'er. Its ML'er season and if the regs allow us non primitive hunters......get used to it, the majority isn't going anywhere. Its not the type of ML'er I'm against......its those that try to impose their brand of hunting and equipment on the rest of us that makes me pick up another pie  Keep them pies a flyn' He He...... The market will always be driven by demand and clearly shows where the interest lies. I will go on record as believing the electric ignition will fail. The "primitive" seasons are in no danger....how many have ceased to be because of inlines? The ML'er experience will continue unabated due to more hunters getting involved all the time. Most states have figured out a way to make extra $ off it. Hunt as "primitive" as you want........just don't point and holler when the guys who want to shoot cleanly and at distance sound off. Now.....pass some more pies and smokeless  woods Savage ML'er....... a New Generation Traditionalist....... Thanks to Henry Ball | |||
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No one is trying to "impose" anything on you. Why is it when someone suggests a seperate primitive season for primitive weapons, you act like someone's about to steal your toilet paper (old Bob Dylan saying) ? No one really cares what you shoot or whether you shoot anything. Go back & read it again.If it (ML season) was just for increased harvest (herd control), they would simply extend the seasons, bag limits, etc for the modern gun hunters, which is what those guys are arguing for, and getting some sympathetic ears. They have a very valid point. Why should they have to stay out of the woods during ML season when people are using 200 yard rifles in those "primitive" hunts? In a way it would be ironic if the wildlife managers went along with them and just did away with ML seasons altogether. Any guess on how many people would use modern MLs when their CF rifles are legal?  What the modern long range ML rifles (including electronic ignition) will also do is get the attention of BATF. They already have. And this, in a shooter friendly administration. When Hillary gets in with a democrat congress, watch out. The regulations will be flying fast & furious. Same for the advances in airguns. "You can lead a horticulture, ... but you can't make 'er think" Florida Gardener | |||
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ML'ing season is another tool for game managers plain and simple.....every case I see there is an additional revenue generated for the cash strapped game agencies to benefit from. Extending the CF season would not generate further revenue, so it makes no sence from a $ standpoint...its really pretty simple. Inlines aren't taking away your season or causing you to not be able to enjoy your primitive ML'ers at all. Your claims aren't valid and quite simply aren't happening as you keep claiming. How many ML'er seasons have been eliminated because of Inline ML'ers? Come on lets see the list of states dropping a money making enterprise because CF hunters are complaining. Truth is ML'ing seasons are growing in popularity and participation.......state agencies are making more money and everyone but a vocal few seem OK with this.
Why are you insuinating with your statement that inline hunters (them) are somehow going to destroy your special time? Where is this happening? What states has it happened in? Lets see some proof of this "danger" ........if it is indeed happening. I would hate to see a time come when as a ML'er enthusiast I wouldn't be able to hunt with similiar minded ML'er hunters because of my choice of propellant, projectile, gun style, or because my gun is stainless and synthetic. I hunt in every ML'er season we have and seldom ever run into anyone hunting with your mindset. No one is worried about this sudden loss of season or increased restrictions that you keep bringing up. In fact I've only met one hunter since we've had a ML'er season that felt like you.....and this out of maybe 80-90 guys I've met at the range, came in the gunshop, or have run into in the woods. The majority of ML'er hunters are inline hunters and they aren't causing any one to loose their ML'ing season. I happen to prefer to hunt with a modern low maintance, clean shooting, ML'er that will reach out and take deer at distance......and like you enjoy to hunt with like equipped hunters....so do I. If I have an advantage over some one with open sights and shorter range.....they have chosen to hunt this way....as I have chosen to hunt my way. woods Savage ML'er....... a New Generation Traditionalist....... Thanks to Henry Ball | |||
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Never said they were.. duh. You seem to have a problem with reading comprehension. What I said was the technology, such as electronic ignition, is blurring the distinction between ML firearms & modern cartridge weapons. (not the hunters) While I don't think it has resulted in a removal of ML seasons which you seem to think can't happen. (and you may be right) The argument made by the modern gun people is being heard. I believe in MS it (that argument) was responded to by allowing some breech loading cartridge rifles to be used in the ML season. It's just a matter of time that more modern cartridge rifles are allowed in what used to be ML seasons in other states as well. ATF has also been looking at ignition systems and talking about regulating ML's with a modern (209 etc) system. One of the good aspects of muzzle loading sports is the lack of ATF involvement. They are justified in looking at it now as technology increases the effectiveness of these guns. There are clearly 2 separate groups of muzzle loader shooters. Those who are true enthusiasts, shoot muzzle loaders because they love them. When they go to the range they shoot them. When they hunt, they shoot them. Even in modern seasons they usually use their muzzleloaders. They are mostly traditional ML shooters, but some use inlines. Then there is the group who just use ML's to take advantage of the ML seasons. They try to take advantage of everything that increases the kill range etc of the weapons. These are the likely market of the electric ignition folks. (which is what this thread is supposed to be about) There are really no similarities between the 2 groups other than the ammo being stuffed down the front of their guns. BTW, the latter group is the one that will be affected the most from a modification of ML seasons to allow cartridge guns to be used like MS. (I hear there are a bunch of inlines for sale there )The real ML enthusiasts will continue to hunt with their smokepoles all season just as they always have. I hunted with muzzleloaders way before there were ML or primitive seasons.Before you try to demonize me for making this distinction, I don't really care what their motives are. I welcome all who use front stuffers. Even those (like you) with smokeless powder and always have. As a gunsmith, I work on a lot of them . I would still like to see more "primitive weapons" seasons like they have in some states, which allow traditional muzzleloaders & archery equipment. Not in place of the existing ML seasons, but in addition to them. This would raise additional revenues for states. I don't see why you feel threatened by this proposal, but you seem to. As for the majority ruling (the market). That is not, and never has been the case. If it was, we'd only have one choice. What the people who are marketing this electric gun are trying to do is appeal to a small niche of "techies". Those who just have to have the latest or most "modern" in their guns. They probably have a target goal, at which point they cosider it a success. Maybe 1000 units a year will make it a success. That's how the market works. Same way with anything. They target a product at a specific segment of the market in hopes of capturing that revenue. I hope they do well with it. "You can lead a horticulture, ... but you can't make 'er think" Florida Gardener | |||
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So now you have admitted your special season isn't in any danger other than what your own posts have alluded too.
Until we see it happening....and it isn't at this point, I would say its not a danger or point worth discussing, as your posts keep trying to imply.
The ATF has looked at several different aspects of ML'ers in terms of regulation......none have been implemented or appear to be in the process of being implemented...... again more gloom prognosis........
Yes there are two differing groups of ML'er hunters out there......both are to be respected and allowed to hunt by their chosen method without being accused of bringing doom and destruction to our sport. The thread including my first post was about the electric trigger......it was after several posts that proceeded to bring in the basic modern ML'ing guns and equipment and then accused them of threatening to bring an end to our ML'ing sport. Than my post content did change to one of basic factual defence, and asking for basic factual proof of this impending doom. You have failed to provide this so my job is done....defence rests
I don't "demonize" anyone......but I do dispell fear conjecture and unreliable statements that attempt to put some type of blame on that inline majority of ML'er users you describe above.
Yes there is a big similarity........if they are both allowed to hunt in their chosen way they are both supporting their state wildlife agency and neither group is harming the others position. Thats a position you fail to except. I could care less if my state allows someone to use another style of firearm during ML'er season.....it doesn't effect me. I'm very happy with my savage and would continue to enjoy ML'ing season and my choice of firearm. Thats another thing you apparently have problems with or you wouldn't feel the need to keep hammering inliners for endangering "your" season. Its everybodys season that chooses to hunt in it......
I not only don't feel threatened by it I encourage it! I would love to see all states have an additional primitive season.......they tried to implement one up here in my state but wanted it ahead of all the other deer seasons so the bow hunters shot them down. They refused to take any other time slot after bow season so they didn't end up with a primitive season....I was sorry to see that.....was hoping they would get another season for deer hunting added.
The majority very much dictates what survives in the market.......and they are very responsive to things that make their ML'er cleaner, more maintance free, and more reliable. Hodgdon, Dead Center, Barnes, and many others will attest to this. OK I'm done now....have the last word if you care too. My posts have shown to all you are merely spreading doom predictions that haven't and aren't happening. We all share the ML'ing sport and no one is destroying the sport for others. When you have any real proof these predictions of yours are happening.....let me know.........till then the sky is still over our heads woods Savage ML'er....... a New Generation Traditionalist....... Thanks to Henry Ball | |||
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Well, I gave you an example of it happening, but as usual, you refuse to acknowledge it. In MS, the modern hunters got them to allow cartridge guns during the ML season. The reason they allowed it is the very good argument that the high tech ML's are just as effective as some cartridge guns. The hunters there are now out buying NEF 45-70's to hunt the "primitive" season with .And yes, ATF is still looking at regulating modern ML's. This, in a very shooter friendly ATF. We've seen their attitude change dramatically with the leadership in DC. You might still want to get a course in reading comprehension though. You continue to mischaracterize my posts. I've never forecast the seasons being removed, just that I've seen signs that the argument allowing modern guns to be used,is beginning to be heard (see above example). When that happens, do you really have a ML season???? Do they still have a ML season in MS ? It makes absolutely no difference to me. I use mine year round on my lease & on public land during the ML seasons.  "You can lead a horticulture, ... but you can't make 'er think" Florida Gardener | |||
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everyone seems to misunderstand your posts, brayhaven. must be all of us. here's a few things i find humorous. - the proposition that primitive means short range and inline means long range. this is laughable. - the proposition that primitive means good hunting skills, and inlines mean lesser hunting skills. (kind of like saying that the guy that drives a 57 chevy is a better driver than the guy that drives a 2007 buick). - the proposition that inline hunters can kill out to 200 yards easily. i'll wager dollars to donuts that the majority of guys couldn't even hit an 8.5x11" target, let alone put it in a 6" kill zone, at 200 yards, with ANY muzzleloader. furthermore, we're seriously deluded if we believe that any more than, say 10% of ALL hunters have even fired their muzzleloader at a distance of 200 yards. 10% might be generous. and i learned a long time ago that those who say long range killing is easy have never actually attempted it. i have a thompson center omega for black powder subs, and a savage for smokeless. both guns shoot within 200 fps of each other, with my current loads. i hunt general firearms season, as well as muzzleloader season with them, forgoing centerfires for deer nearly altogether. if it loads from the muzzle, its a muzzleloader and ought to be legal during any muzzleloader season. electronic ignition has been discussed for months on other boards. my opinion is that the market will kill it, because it offers no better ignition than other available ignition sources, and actually adds a source of failure. here's what primitive hunters fail to admit. the only thing that modern muzzleloaders get you is reliability. that's it. a sealed, reliable ignition source. distance? nope. better machining and material allow for higher proofs, and thus, heavier charges(for all guns). and well designed bullets, coupled with an appropriate rifling twist. conical bullets, or bullets that are long in relationship to their caliber, have higher ballistic coefficients, and fly further than round balls. that's where your distance comes from. speaking of primitive, just when did we realize that, ballistically speaking, conical bullets greatly out-performed round balls? 1840's? shortly thereafter, we found that rifling helped as well, and our civil war soldiers in the 1860's were lobbing minnies out 300 yards. not a bad effective range, don't you think??? anyway its as simple as that. reliability is the ONLY inherent advantage - bullet design and ballistics take care of the rest. i chuckle when i think about the idea that self imposition of potential failure means that you're a better hunter and able to get closer. my un-prepared brother must be a great hunter - though he doesn't muzzleload much, and doesn't shoot many deer.. | |||
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 No response required. Don't you have some homework to do now "You can lead a horticulture, ... but you can't make 'er think" Florida Gardener | |||
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Hmmmmmmmm........theres that reading comprehension shot again.......I was done with you... but maybe you want to back up and change your opinions some more, or better yet lets look at what you're really saying on this thread. You said in your above responses that you were worried that the states would eliminate ML'er season in favor of allowing the CF hunters to harvest the additional deer that ML'ing season was accounting for. I read it quite plainly and can quote it for you if you've forgotten......now when I ask for some examples of where this has happened in the entire country.....you can't produce a single instance. OK no facts so we're done....but wait a minute.....now you give Ms. as an example when all they did was loosen state regs to allow black powder cartridges. They did not remove or do away with ML'er season....you can still traditional hunt....I can inline hunt....nothing is taken away or eliminated at all. I told you several times last month on the smokeless thread on this very site that regs were loosening and the example you give does an excellant job of proving my words to be correct (Thank You by the way). I don't lack reading comprehension...in fact I understand your hand wringing and flip flopping tactics all too well. You can't produce anything factual to support your claims so you just keep adjusting and altering the claims YOU NEED to LEARN HOW to FACTUALLY DEBATE without ducking and dodging soo much. Get back on your meds and take a couple deep breaths........your're getting dizzy and confused apparently. I debated these same red herrings you use 6 years ago on another site with a tradionalist.....you know what? THEY NEVER HAPPENED 6 YEARS AGO AND THEY WON'T HAPPEN NOW! So decide what you want to debate.......get some facts that support YOUR contention....not the guys point your're debating and come back and give me a shout. Till then YOU'RE the one that has some homework to do.............
Modern cartridge guns and blackpowder cartridge guns are quite a bit different and you seem to be blurring the distinction a bit. Modern hunters got them to allow cartridge guns.....or is that blackpowder cartridge guns ?.....now would that be writing comprehension on your part.....or maybe just indifference....or out and out confusion...duh? 
Nows heres your earlier post......now do you even make any distinction what CF's that are going to be legal?.......whats this about doing away with ML'ing season?......thought you wern't making that claim.... yet there it is in your statement above.......do you really have a handle on the difference between modern gun hunters - CF rifles - blackpowder cartridge guns - or do you just use them all interchangably ??????........you are a confused and confusing individual to be suggesting anyone has a reading comprehension problem when you don't even seem to know what your're claiming or what firearms you're even discussing. Come back and post when an inline hunter actually ruins anything that effects you. You know....one of them triple range terrors that your're so bothered by...... You know a good friend reminded me the other day (and hes a traditional ML'er hunter.....as well as a friend.....GASP), all these precieved advantages of one gun over another are just that, precieved. FINDING the deer to shoot is the hard part, not shooting it. Instead of worrying about locating that big buck, so much time is spent worrying about what the other guy is shooting...... woods Savage ML'er....... a New Generation Traditionalist....... Thanks to Henry Ball | |||
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Talk about flip-flop.. Just couldn't stay away could you "Woody" . You can't stand it that I showed you an example of what I was talking about. It wasn't a debate anyway. I merely expressed concern that the technology would remove the justification for separate ML seasons. Which it clearly has in MS. You're the insecure one who felt a need to "debate". Read this carefully. When you allow cartridge rifles to be used in a muzzle loading season, you no longer have a "muzzle loading" season... duh. (define muzzleloader) That's what's happened in MS and is being considered in other states. It increases participation, revenues, etc, just like crossbows do in archery season. Remember when the archery folks said crossbows would never be allowed in archery seasons ?? Now you're saying it's ok if they're black powder cartridges, or were at one time??? Do they have to use BP in them for you to approve? ? Next they'll allow shotguns, because they were originally black powder. No reason not to. Then they'll put a timeline on it like pre-1900 cartridges, which brings in a bunch like 30-30's etc. It's either muzzle loading or it's not. My point is well made by the (MS) allowance of cartridge guns and it's a justifiable allowance, due to the technology of the new long range ML's. This brings me back to my original point. I see a blurring of the distinction between muzzle loaders & cartridge guns due to the newer ML technology. You tried to obfuscate the issue by accusing me of attacking inline hunters, which, of course, I never did. On the contrary, I welcome all ML shooters, no matter what they shoot.I showed you an example of what I was talking about and now you refuse to accept the facts. MS no longer has a ML season. How many inlines do you think are selling there now ? End of discussion. Greg "You can lead a horticulture, but you can't make 'er think." | |||
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No Bray......I couldn't stay away and let you think you could spread unfactual posts without being made to explain yourself......sorry to keep using bandwidth to correct these rantings but oh well...... I can't believe you support my contentions and than say it proves your contentions, NO ML'er season was removed....read that, than go back and read it three more times....now take an hour and let that sink slowly in. It is very much a debate....and one you are steady loosing.....one is never insecure in a debate if they have facts to back their statements up with......you on the other hand have no facts except those that back up MY statements. Read it again....they have not eliminated ANY ML'ing seasons....anywhere. Now go have a nice day Savage ML'er....... a New Generation Traditionalist....... Thanks to Henry Ball | |||
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Hey Mark, I saw an ad for it in the NRA American Hunter with the same Marketing verbage. Since I don't know very much about BP, it is all interesting to me. In fact, I've been wondering what the actual Breech Plug would look like. Does anyone know if it resembles a "Sparkplug"? Surely there is some kind of insulation between the Anode and Cathode portion, or I don't see how it would work to produce a spark. Haven't seen the schematics of the Firing Circuitry, so this is all speculation as well. If they used a simple "Capacitor" type Discharge, then the actual amount of Spark should be very consistent from shot to shot. Even as the Battery ages, it will simply charge the Capacitor to a specific Voltage level, but that level should remain constant as long as the Battery is able to provide the charge, though it might take a bit longer to do the charging. Since the Breech would be totally sealed, that seems like an advantage to me. Is Greg filling in for George Roof? | |||
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I guess when you've lost the point, the only recourse to some folks is to attack the other person in the discussion. . My point, which you continue to ignore, is that by allowing breech loading weapons in a muzzle loading hunt, it is NO LONGER a muzzle loading hunt. Why is that so hard for you to understand? You demanded an example & I gave you one. As other states see this as a revenue producer that increases participation, they will follow suit. They will still call it a "primitive weapons" season & sell licenses for it, but it will no longer be a ML season (or a primitive one). Read this: MS NO LONGER HAS A ML SEASON. They can call it what they want but the fact is, it's a ML & breech loader season now. What part of that do you have trouble understanding?? Greg, "It ain't ignorance so much as a lot of folks knowing stuff that just ain't so" Josh Billings | |||
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When a season is called a ML'er season by the state......and it is.....and they allow me to use a ML'er in it.....and they do.....than its a ML'er season despite whatever you may want to call it. What part of that do YOU have trouble understanding? I see why no one bothers to answer your posts....its a practise in patience beyond what most are capable of......... woods Savage ML'er....... a New Generation Traditionalist....... Thanks to Henry Ball | |||
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Well now we're getting someplace. . You don't really care whether it's a ML season or not as long as they call it one, even if you can use any gun to hunt. OK, that clears up why you failed to comprehend what I was saying. even though I reduced it to the comprehension level of a lobotimized earthworm . Thanks for the clarification. People don't answer my posts because I didn't enter into a debate. Just posed a personal concern, and would have let it go, but you felt somehow threatened by it & attacked me for bringing it up. I've never had a problem with people understanding what I wrote before and don't now. I have a degree in journalism & English and have published over a hundred artcles since the mid 70's. I've had a few folks contact me off list, asking why I bother with you. I guess, as you say, it's patience. But I have a lot of that too. I also raise & train mules. It's a great prep for dealing with folks like you Greg http://members.aol.com/brayhaven/bj.htm Home of the best ass in America | |||
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Brayhaven I know Woodseye and you have to understand he can start more krap then a five gallon pail of Exlax. I do agree with his points for the most part but you are wrong in one area! Mules are easier to train then Woodseye, I am still trying to get him into the big bore world and it is hopeless. As to the range of the inlines, a traditional gun like the ones on this sight far exceed the modern inlines. They use real black powder and up here in Maine are legal for deer, (At least for now) Check this out, the rifled versions are good out to nearly 1000 yards on 55 gallon drum sized targets. www.buckstix.com/howitzer.htm It is not what you hunt with, it is how you hunt that matters! | |||
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Judson you obviously didn't see my earlier post: https://forums.accuratereloading.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/3821043/m/846100016/p/4 And guys remember, criticize the post, not the poster..... I need a warm fuzzy emoticon for in here I think.... <G> for every hour in front of the computer you should have 3 hours outside | |||
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Electronic triggers will fade away..... ML'er seasons are safe and in no danger..... Black powder cannons will eventually be outlawed everywhere...... Throwing custard pies and playing with rubber swords will always be fun.....  woods Savage ML'er....... a New Generation Traditionalist....... Thanks to Henry Ball | |||
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