Does anyone use Lil Gun or IMR 4198 in their ML10??

I have tried repeatedly to get IMR 4227 to light off and have had very bad luck with it. I'm doing OK with the faster powders, but it seems we could get good velocity with slower powders and lower pressures to boot.

Ideas??

problems with imr 4227 thats kinda odd are you making shure your gun is completly dry......as in absolutly no oil anywhere when your shooting


keep on looking at the variouse message boards and youll find the info needed also have you though of calling savage and asking 1 of there tech guys.

Lowrider 49,

There has been lots of folks that have had problems lighting 4227 w/ any consistency and that's the last thing you want to happen w/ a buck in the sights.

Can you get IMR SR 4759 in your area? I've shot several powders in my ML10II and I keep coming back to 4759 for accuracy, speed, and consistency.

If you do want to go to a slower powder, I would recommend Accurate XMR 2015 BR. It is a very accurate and dependable powder in the ML10II and alot slower burning than Lil' Gun and 4759 but, it still produces good speed.

Lots of folks over on the Savage Board have had great results w/ 2015. 2015 is easy on sabots too so, pressures are probably not very high.

If you'd like a spread sheet w/ Data on various powders, shoot me an email ronald.savage@gsa.gov

As to Lil' Gun, I've tried it and found it to be very inaccurate and hard on sabots. I also heard it was dangerous because of inconsistent pressure spikes.


I have had good results w/ Lil' Gun in Duplex loads, I'll give you that data if you'd like.

Reloader

Reloader,

Thanks for the info. I'll run down some 2015 and give it a try. I just pulled out my bow to start practicing, so it will not be long before it is time for ML practice!!

Do you have any particular loads that work best?

Thanks!!

SR 4759 !!!!!!!!! never li'l gun..and 4227 will,even under ideal circumstances misfire....sr 4759 is the one true garaunteed.

Lowrider,

Go to the loads section on the left column of this web page under "Normal Loads":

http://www.sav10ml.com/pages/main.htm

Around 70 grains od AA2015BR should be very safe w/ the 250s.

Good Luck!

Reloader

Or 47 grains of 4759 behind the 250,and 43 behind the 300

Charger, Those sound like pretty warm loads, what kind of sub bases are you using? What kind of Accuracy?

Reloader

Just the mmp high pressure sabot. Sub moa

Below is some different targets shot with different powders and amounts.Check out the red dot on the left,second row 1/2 in at 200 yds.
My go to load is 4759@ 47.5 grs,and 250 sst or shock wave.Sabot that comes with them and wlr primers.Don't get these groups every time but get several of them.
Fartherest deer this past year was 234 yds,dropped where it stood.

Owensby,

Wow!!! I'm impressed!!!! Looks like I'm going to try your formula first. I'd be happy with groups 10x that big...5" at 200!

My only confusion is the primers...are you really using Winchester Large Rifle?? My ML 10 II will only take 209s. Do you have a conversion of some sort on yours??

Thanks for the data and efforts to post the photos...I can't do that either!

I've done some serious experimenting on this and found winchesters to be dirty and too much force..Cheddite 2000's have worked better for me,but I havent converted the gun in any way...The big thing with these while benching is loose the ramrod,and allow to cool to ambient between shots

Sorry should have said win 209.I use then or Fed 209 in all my loads.
Have found that the 4759 powder works better in summer and winter than the other powders I tried.
Shot some 250 xtp's yesterday with the 47.5 gr load and they shot very well out to 200 yds but not as tight as the sst's.

Guys, Lets not get lowrider going down the wrong path to start w/.

Out of the two ML10s that I currently shoot one will only get to 42 grains of 4759 w/ bare sabots and the other will only get to 44 (and that's if the temp is cool out). W/ any amount above the two listed loads above both rifles will absolutely shred the sabots. I would never want that to happen to anyone while in the field.

Lowrider, If you haven't done alot of shooting w/ 4759 I would suggest using a sub-base if you plan on going above 42-43 grains and that's if your gun will let you go that high.

Those are some great groups Owensby, I wish my rifle would let me go that high w/ bare sabots. I blew a few sabots w/ 44 grains this weekend and had to start shooting w/ the MMP subs. Luckily groups and impact stays almost the same w/ or w/o.

Reloader

Thanks guys!!

I got mine for my birthday 2 years ago and was so frustrated with trying to light off 4227 that I put the gun away and shot my Encore 45 cal with 777 and a 180 gr. I shot 4 deer with it and it worked great. A few weeks ago I thought I would try the ML 10 again and hopefully with 4759 it will be magic. I can't find any locally, but I'll find some and let you know how it works. I'll use the MMP black sabots and stay around 40 grs to start....the older I get the more of a wimp I am with recoil anyway.

I did try 35 grs of 2400 and a 240 gr .429 slug in a green Knight sabot. seemed to work OK, but I did not chrony or shoot much paper to really get an idea. It did shoot clean though with minimal recoil.

Intersting comment on win 209s. I use them almost exclusively in AA skeet loads and never thought about them being dirty. I'll have to try something else and see if they are cleaner.

Thanks again folks!!!!

quote:

the older I get the more of a wimp I am with recoil anyway.

Cutting plastic and copper is two different birds..Propelling 300 grs out of a gun that uses plastic as a bearing surface is cork gunnish compared to cutting the same grains in copper..This to is why you have to stay away from 4227 as it requires being held in place for a heat and pressure build,which you can get with copper,but not consistantly with plastic

Reloader,that is a very good point and sure glad you brought it up,wouldn't want anyone to get hurt.I just checked the loads on http://www.sav10ml.com and they only go up to 43 grs of 4759.If anyone wants to see the loads they are listed on that site.
The following is not to argue loads,just for information.I have an older model with the false muzzle and a newer model in ss.both shoot this load and in 3 yrs have not had a problem,I sress that I have not had any problems.Muzzleloaders and pressure work different in them just as pressure works differently in reg rifles.So if anyone uses my loads please work up to them.
The worst powder in relation to temperature was N110,the 5 shot group in the pic was shot in 38 degree weather but when it got warm it started shreading sabots too.
Shot yesterday ,think is was in the low 80's,trying out some 250 xtp with the 4759 gr load,this was the first time I had tried them and 4759 actually got some good groups @100 and 200 yds,but they dropped too much and spread out all over the paper at 300.
Have fun and be safe