I know most people use sabots in their inlines, but will a 1:28 twist rate also stabilize a solid lead projectile, like the TC Maxi-ball? I just plink, and there is no need to use a copper jacketed hollowpoint on an apple.
what options are there besides the Maxi-ball, if that is even made anymore?

thanks,

Paul

The twist will but what rifle do you have? Some rifles do not like to shoot solid lead bullets. Like T/C Omega and Encore with QLA barrel ends. You can even shoot lead balls with a patch if you keep the powder loads fairly light. The problem wih the faster twist barrels and patched round ball is that with high power loads the ball and patch will slip the rifling and not be as accurate. There are sum buffalo bullet selections also.

Paul,
I shoot buffalo 245gr. balletts through both of my thompsons , a new englander (sidelock),and a firehawk (inline).They are both new enough to have the QLA system.I have found them to be Just as accurate as a sabot,at any charge. However MLKIETH is absolutely right...Neither of mine like a soild lead bullet at all!!and my inline will only fire patch and ball accurately at a reduced load , 45gr-60gr. . With 50gr it is Absolutely deadly to squirells.
The only solid bullet these Thompson centers will shoot with any accuracy,and this is still not great(5" group with the sidelock,open sights. 2 1/4" from the scoped inline)@ 100yds off the bench.is a 285gr. power belt.but they are pretty high,price wise,I would'nt consider them a plinking bullet.
Those balletts I mentioned are considerably cheaper.Here in Mo.you can usualy find them at wal-mart for $8-$10 per 50. Oh, and they are pre lubed, Just load and go. Fouling is light.About the same as a sabot.

What kind of rifle do you have?
In any case , a few hours at a target range with a selection of different bullets will tell the tale.
Also dont forget to bring along the loose powder.Its easier to work up pet loads with loose. For me anyway.
By the way ,a 1:28 twist rate will adiquately stabilize a big bullet up to about 350gr.After that your twist rate just wont cut it.
I personaly would pick solid bullets in the 245gr.up to around 325gr. and the 325gr.may be to big for your twist rate to shoot accurately.
Accuracy with 1:28 and larger bullets will useualy come with a slightly reduced powder load 80gr-90gr. . For both of mine it was 87gr of plain old pyrodex RS.(loose,obviousely)
I should also tell ya that I tried different powders as well.for me green mnt.was no good with the big slugs.but it might work with yours.so you should definetly work with a selection of powders as well.
And hey feel free to try bigger bullets ,cause every rifle is different.For example some older thompsons within my family will shoot anything you want to feed them,and my father has an old tradition series 1 Hawken and it to will shoot with any size bullet you drop in it.
So keep in mind this info is from my personal experiance with new T.C QlA muzzleloaders. Hope this helps you out.




"Big bullets...For those who like to eat right up to the hole"

Thanks for the replies. I am getting my first inline today - I have narrowed it to the Knight Revolution, TC Omega , or NEF Huntsman. I will hold and fondle each today ( so far have only seen them online) and decide more on how they feel than the specs. All do, however, have the same twist rate. I am looking to keep my bullet costs per shot low of course. Maybe the TC cheapshots, but I will also have to look into those ballets, have never seen them before - who makes them?

thanks,


paul

quote:

Originally posted by Paul Franklin:
I am getting my first inline today - I have narrowed it to the Knight Revolution, TC Omega , or NEF Huntsman.

Remember, if you buy the correct NEF frame you can later have it fitted with centerfire rifle and shotgun barrels.

In most cases the Huntsman (which is no longer made but some are available still) is usually only able to accept shotgun barrels not centerfire rifle as the frame is not the stronger one. The only Huntsmans made with the stronger frame were combination packages with a centerfire barrel already fitted.

Forgot to add that you can buy a cheap centerfire rifle and send for a muzzleloader barrel from the guys that make smokeless barrels for them so then you can shoot black, substitute black and smokeless powders in it.

OK, I got my first inline yesterday - went with the TC Omega Z5, it just fit best on my shoulder. Now I am really confused. I know the information is out there on the net, but it is so widespread that I can not find one concise source. I went with this
- loose 777
- TC Cheapshot sabots
- starting at 80 grains.

First 5 shot group, offhand, 20 yards went 2 inches
So far my thoughts are this
1) this is fun
2) cleanup is easier than I thought
3) that old saying that centerfires kick and blackpowder pushes is BS, this thing kicks. I can't wait to go to full charges.
4) to really work up loads will take a lot of time and a lot of dough
my questions are
a) what are ballets
b) what are the reasons to use 777 vs Pyrodex
c) if I am happy with the 777/cheapshots, is there any reason to change for just plinking fun? Is there anything that might perform the same, but less cost per shot?
d) is it OK to clean from the muzzle end - with centerfires I was taught that this will ruin the crown, but I guess there is no real crown on the Omega, isn't that the QLA thing?



thanks,


Paul

T-7 is a fast burning synthetic; consequently it "kicks" harder than slower burning real black or the ascorbic acid based powders like Shockeys gold, American Pioneer, or Black Mag'3. They will give more of a push than the sharp "kick" that T-7 gives. Next, the QLA is intended to make loading the bullet easier. If running a swab between shots like most do there is no alternative but to use the muzzle end. When finally cleaning the rifle the breechplug should be removed and cleaned and then the barrel can be cleaned from either end. You can plink with patched round balls but you will have to keep the powder loads light with the faster twist barrel that is on the Omega. T-7 is easier to clean than Pyrodex or Black Powder but in some rifles it makes a crud ring just forward of the powder charge after the shot. Personally in my Omega I find the ascorbic acid powders are the cleanest and Pyrodex shoot the most consistantly accurate. Full power loads will likely shoot less accurately than 100gr. powder or less loads. 150gr. of powder is not only punishing but unnecessary unless you are hunting Cape Buffalo or practice enough to make 200+ yard shots on Elk.

"The BALL-ET is a half ball and half bullet, pre-lubricated and ready to use right out of the box. It has more energy than a round ball, easier to load than a sabot and has a higher velocity than a conical. Exceptional accuracy can be obtained in both fast and slow twist barrels. All this, combined with a very light recoil. The BALL-ET is ideal for target shooting...." from http://thunder-ridge-muzzleloading.com/buffalo.htm#ballet

777 is far less corrosive than Pyrodex (but is still corrosive). Thorough cleaning is mandatory with either powder. 777 is also a bit more energetic per volume.

You might try patched round balls with low powder charges (50 grains or less). Another possibility would be buying lighter weight conicals from a place like Bull Shop ( http://bullshop.gunloads.com/index.html )

There is a crown but it is at the bottom of the QLA. I don't like barrels with a QLA or similar. http://www.websitetoolbox.com/tool/post/dandtcustomgunworks/vpost?id=2045528

You can buy (or make your own) an inexpensive bore guide to help eliminate damage to the crown and rifling. http://www.cainsoutdoor.com/cart/asp/select_item.asp?item=18701 Cain's is a good place to pick yourself up a nice range rod. If you are using only the supplied ramrod, I strongly suggest you consider a range rod. Their Super Rods work well as range rods. Lots of "stuff" there.

Wow, thanks for the links - lots of great information there.


paul

Paul,

To get your costs down you should try buying a bullet mould and cast your own. LEE moulds can be bought for $15 or so, then you need a pot and a ladle. The ladle is another couple of dollars and the pot can be a small stainless steel cooking pot purchased from Goodwill. Once you get the hang of things you can cast several hundred bullets in a couple of hours and that can keep you shooting for a while.

What is a good source of lead? Can I melt it in the pot with just a propane torch, or even on the gas grill? I know my wife would not allow me to use the kitchen stove!


thank you,


paul

Paul, you could collect scrap roofing and/or plumber's lead. Those are both generally of nearly pure lead - compared to wheel weights which will be of a harder alloy. Boatyard ballast lead or X-ray lead from a medical facility are also good. I would highly recommend you melt, flux, skim and clean any scavenged lead outdoors and pour it into workable size ingots.

You need to read up on casting, keeping in mind good ventilation is a must and the more you can isolate the process from other people - the better.

Old cast iron skillets or pots are good for melting and a propane torch or gas grill should be enough of a heat source. You can probably get creative with materials on hand and come up with a ladle of sorts, a stirring utensil, ingot moulds (corn muffin moulds make for nice ingot moulds), some gloves, rags, a drop box or pail...

You would be well advised to read more in the casting section here and elsewhere before starting.

I have been shooting home cast 44 cal bullets made from wheel weights (240 grain Keith style)in a Harvester sabot, and have been having good luck with them. I am shooting them out of an Omega with 90 grains of T7.

Once you are set up the bullets are basically free and the sabots are 7 or 8 bucks for 50.

I have a nef huntsman with a 1:28 twist that I sometimes practice with a patched round ball and 50 gr of pyrodex. Works ok. I also have a traditional style 50 cal with a 1:32 twist and I cast my own 320 gr conicals from pure lead and use 100 gr of pyrodex. Both provide me with a lot of enjoyment.