I'm thinking about getting a muzzleloader for deer hunting. I know nothing about them. What effective range could one expect from a muzzle loader? What would be a recommended first buy that would be reliable and get the job done? Thanks for any responses to this post.
Val

First, are you interested in a traditional styled gun or a modern one?

I'll give you two recomendations (1 style each):

Traditional:
Lyman Great Plains Rifle in .54 (or the hunter version in .50 for conicals) GPR w./roundballs aprox 75 yd range depending on your skills, while the Hunter version aprox 100 yds again depending on your skills.

Modern:
T/C Omega
Range 150 yds+ depending on your skills and the load used in the rifle.

As with all things, a man must know his limitations. A modern inline, using a 150 gr. powder charge is easily capable of taking deer size game at up to 200 yards. However, this is contingent on the fact that the shooter can hit a deer in the vitals at that range. Most of my shots at deer, over a 32 year time line, have been under 75 yards. I have taken a total of three deer at ranges over 100 yards. A modern gun will drop them like a bad habit if the shooter does his part.
As to which gun. I have fallen in love with my Encore 209-50. I use "only" 100 gr. loads (2 Pyrodex pellets) behind the Power Belt 295 gr HP bullet. I have come to expect a one shot kill every time. What's more, I have yet to be able to recover a bullet. A hit behind the shoulder has passed through every time. No deer I have sot with this load has taken more than 10 steps after being hit.
Hope this helps you.
Good hunting, and good luck with whatever you choose.

I myself want to try it this coming year . i myself like the mountain rifle types T/C CVA lyman etc . i like keeping it traditional, i have a T/C flintlock i love to shoot but i dont want to hunt with it. However two guys i know bought a new england huntsman for $128.00 in walmart up near Kingston NY they both love them and they said accuracy is great at there 100yd range . I believe there .50 cals I think its a great price for a beginner , and you can go from there.

Savage has the strongest and one of the most accurate out today. You will be able to make shots out to 250-300 w/ smokeless.

The best thing about the Savage is you dont have to clean it immediatley after shooting.

Good Luck!

ps-- If you would like more info on the savage and its capabilities, just shoot me a pm.

Reloader

I've always been a traditional fan myself. Nowdays I shoot a Lyman Great Plains Hunter in .50 caliber. My first was a Kentucky long rifle in .45, it was a good starter for me in 1975. Accurate as hell. The ole .50 I shoot now is quite the shooter also, it's been sighted in at 50yds. and 100yds., course I've never shot a deer past 50yds. with it. But it's good to go if I had a 100yd. shot arise. If I recall correctly, my longest shot was with a .58 Hawkin at 40yds., last years buck was at 20yds.. As for reliability, the ole Lyman sat through half a day of rain last year on opening day, didn't get a shot, left it loaded overnight and dropped that buck the next morning. Can't ask for more than that!

Hello!


I make muzzleloaders for a living and I have for many years.
I have learned a lot about them.
The 2 things to consider are these:
#1The skill of the shooter (and his ability to judge range)
#2The quality of the rifle.
The facts are these........

Timothy Murphy killed General Frasher in the American revolution at very long range with a flintlock

Snipers on both sides killed their enemys at 600-1200 yards in the American Civil war, with muzzleloaders

The British team lost the 1000 yard competition to the American team, By ONE point, shooting Rigby muzzleloaders.

The point is.....don't believe the "modern wisdom" (you need to buy a plastic sabot shooting rifle and only shoot to 100 ards or less --- blah blah blah)

I will grant that the average shooter today shouldn't shoot much past 100 yards on deer, but that's because He is not someone that lives with his rifle every day, and does not have the skill to make longer shots. You can see this by just taking the scope off the modern rifles, and letting them shoot them with iron sights without a bench rest, and see how well they do with a super accurate 270, 30-06, 243 ect......... Irons and shoot from a "field position"

In 98% of the cases, it's not the gun......it's the man.

With all that said, if you are the kind of man who can really shoot, or you can take the time to learn, you can be assured that a GOOD muzzleloader will kill deer out well past 200 yards without any problem at all. I have killed several deer and antelope at "longer ranges" (175-225) with my flintlock. I would not take a LOOOOONG shot just because of respect for the annimal. I know that if I wound, there is a good chance that I may have a long tracking job, and I always want to kill clean. I do shoot quart oil bottles with My flintlock on my 300 yard range, and I can hit them about 1/2 the time, and hit close enought to them to make then jump about 1/4 more. (this IS from a rest)
Men who say this can't be done have just not given it a really good try........with a really accurate muzzleloader.
Or....they don't know their history.

Nobody asked but, what is your budget? This makes a big difference. Are you leaning towards a traditional appearance or do you just want to take part in the special season in your area? What are the rules in your area (especially important if you were in PA or some such)?

I'm primarily interested in taking advantage of the muzzle loader expanded hunting season. In addition it looks like they would be fun to shoot. I enjoy going to the range and shoot my modern hunting rifles as well as my Milsurps. A muuzle loader would add another dimension.

That Savage that was mentioned looked awesome. Do you load it the same way as some of the traditional muzzleloaders?

Thanks for the informative replies.

Val

Val,

The first thing to look up are the hunting laws in the states where you may hunt. Some allow almost everything and others do not.

For myself I never took to black powder. Others have mastered it and my hats off to them.

I got a Savage 10 ML-11 a couple of weeks ago and first of all it got on the paper right away and had no misfires! I have taken to it and I will use it in extended seasons this winter.

This Savage is very heavy, expensive for what you get and not without many flaws. But the design is interesting and it functions. Perhaps something better will come along soon. There is a lot of interest in smokeless muzzle loaders right now.

You load it just like other ML's. There are no "pellets" for it so one must pour powder down the barrel. Otherwise it's about the same except for the smell, dirt, smoke and rust.

The Savage may also be more powerful than other ML's. I am not certain of this but it's quite a cannon.

Comparing a Savage using smokeless powder to a muzzleloader using black powder or a substitute is not a fair comparison.

Also, use of smokeless powder in muzzleloaders in most if not all states is illegal. Using it in ANY muzzleloader except the Savage specifically designed for it is exceedingly dangerous.

I have used the encore 209x50 and now have a TC Omega which I like a lot better. With the TC Shockwave sabots and two fifty grain 777 pellets, I would be comfortable to 150 yards.

last season, with it I was 5 for 5 but the longest shot was 94 yards.

Get one and have fun.

Tom aka rinkydink

Even though smokless powder is not legal in some states, you are not likely to be prosecuted for using it. I had a talk w/ WFD and they said as long as you were hunting in the designated ML season, had a ML liscense, and were obeying all ethical practices, that they would not even think about what powder you are using.

In most states the law is written: "Black powder or a Black powder substitute is permisable" My "Black Powder Substitute" is IMR SR 4759. If it went to court, they wouldn't have a leg to stand on. Now, if the law specifically bans smokeless, thats a different story.

Another arguement is that 777 and pyrodex are smokeless powders too. It says on the can "Smokeless Powder" I have heard this has been changed but, I have not seen the change yet.

I can shoot 140 grains of 777 in my Savage (Only in a Savage!) and get velocities close to smokless but, why bother, I can do the same w/ smokeless and avoid the mess.

Reloader

"Comparing a Savage using smokeless powder to a muzzleloader using black powder or a substitute is not a fair comparison."

Sure it is. Good BP gun with conicals will smoke a Savage at long range. A front stuffer is a front stuffer, even if it's a S/S Inline W/ Scope and laser range finder, bipod and built in wind meter.

Come now Brent, you having a bad day? You are quite correct regarding the airplane analogy but I think you missed my point. I stand by the first sentence, but admit my tongue was firmly in my cheek on the second. thought it was obvious, guess not. Actually, I've never seen a wind meter on an inline.

For the record, there was a war game played out near the end of the Viet Nam thing that pitted a battalion of Army choppers against a squadron of Air Force F-4's somewhere out in the desert southwest. Issue was whether the choppers could survive in an environment of air parity as opposed to air superiority. Final score was Army 12, AF 0. Times have probably changed given the look-down shoot-down missles of today. The problem the jets had was one of manuverability. Don't be too quick to dismiss David in favor of Goliath, or real muzzleloaders in favor of sabot shooting inlines.

I checked CT & VT and it seems that smokeless muzzleloaders are legal there. I have not looked up CA where Val is.
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I am wrong about the Vermont muzzleloader law. It states that blackpowder or a proper non smokeless substitute must be used.

These Savage MLs are great.

I have left mine loaded for weeks and it would also be right on the money.

Reloader

Nutcase,



I guess if you consider using smokeless unethical, you better use a flint-lock ML and some real black powder too.



If you use an in-line and Pyrodex, 777, Cleanshot, etc., you are hunting exactly the same (Ethically) as those of us using a Savage w/ Smokeless powder.



Reloader