I am about to buy a muzzleloader for a friend. It will be either a Pedersoli Pensylvania (only availiable in .45 or .32) or Kentucky .50 cal.

I would guess that the .50cal is going to be more suited for big game hunting, but the Pensulvania comes with set trigger and I'll guess again will be easier to shoot accurately due to this and the lower recoil.

Most shots would be around50m and under, all would be under 100m.

Does the .45 have enough punch for deer and pigs?

I'd think so, but I don't know much about muzzleloaders.

Any advice is appreciated.

45 Ca. is fine for deer and pigs , the important decision is what rifling is in the barrel 1 In 48" is great for round and conicals , 1in anything over 48" is only good for round balls so the .50 is needed for killing power a 1 in 28"or 32" is the best for conicals, round balls will not shoot accurately , Use 3f powder and get the velocity needed and cleaner burn

The 50 cal is the most common used and components are easily available. I would check the hunting regulations in the state the rifle is being used for.

Most places .45 is minimum for deer and .50 required for anything bigger.

You can hardly go wrong with using a larger BP rifle than required.

EVERYONE I know without exception who bought a 45cal wound up replacing it with a 50cal later on, so I'd suggest getting a 50cal as a minimum.

I live in PA and wanted a 54 because I consider even 50's with roundballs to be a bit short on killing power, (I like exit holes) but since PA changed the rules for the january flinter season and no longer mandate patched roundball I'll get a fast twist 54 instead.

AllanD

If you're hunting deer and pigs, avoid the .45 like the plague.

I have a Pedersoli Kentucky flintlock and I don't like the stock. I has a hump in it that pounds my cheekbone with all but the lightest loads so it's very uncomfortable to shoot.

I'd go with the fifty. There is nothing the 45 will do that the 50 won't do better. I've seen problems with 45 round balls with less then good shot placement. You can adjust powder levels and bullet types to control recoil for an new shooter. Do not teach a beginning shooter to use set triggers. Too many problems for a beginner. Sam

The Pennsylvania isn't availiable in .50, hence the choice. I may end up buying the Frontier in .54 later on but for the moment we are sticking to this.

Thanks for the advice, I think we are going to have a ball with this gun!

As to the set triggers, I believe in them a lot.
It may be a little complicated but you can alwasy use the first trigger setting for practice, then the set trigger for the shot on the hunt.

Will post how it all goes.

If you are an experianced shooter set triggers are OK. My comments were directed to new shooters. Trigger control is important for a new shooter learn. Light triggers encourage a new shooter to jerk the trigger when the sights look right. It's harder to use also if your fingers are cold, maybe that's not a problem where you hunt.

You original post mentioned that most of your shooting would be around 50M. At that distance a set trigger would be of little advantage on deer sized game. Using set triggers it is more difficult to "silent cock" a rifle when game is close.

I would recommend you practise a lot more with the set trigger if that is what you intend to shoot deer with. You want your practice to reflect your hunting as close as posible.

I'm not opposed to set triggers. It's just I have seen people have problems with them in hunting situations without a lot of practise.

Ohiosam speaks wisdom. I have a few comments to add on the issue of set triggers and safety.
I like set triggers a lot, but I only use them on the range, shooting targets, never when hunting. This is most especially important for a new shooter/hunter as the light weight pull of the set trigger will go off when "barely touched" by a shooter full of adrenaline. (Just shouldering the weapon is enough to set it off with a finger reaching into the trigger guard while you are concentrating on a moving deer.) Maybe, if you are hunting from a stand and have plenty of time to make your shot at an unspooked animal standing quietly unaware, and hundreds of rounds of practice with the rifle, that might lessen the danger to an acceptable level for you, but not for me. I've shot a lot of deer, and not once have I used the set trigger to do it, nor been tempted. It just isn't necessary. I would not consider hunting on the ground with anyone who was foolish enough to use it, either. There's a damned good reason not to have a trigger on a hunting rifle with a pull of less than 3-4lbs: it's just too easy for an accidental discharge to happen, even with an experienced shooter. As a Hunter Ed instructor, I know from personal experience that few hunters have any concept of muzzle control, even after patient instruction, and many are downright dangerous when they get a little excited. It's not worth the risk.
As to what caliber, I'd go with the .50. The .45 will do the job, but you have a much greater choice of projectiles for the bigger bore. You can start off with light charges and work your way up to hunting loads while you are finding the right projectile/charge/propellant combination that will work best in your rifle. Every rifle is different, and while someone else's experience with a similar model may give you a general idea of what will work, only actual experimenting will tell you what you need to know, and the process of working up the load will give you the needed familiarity with it.

Versifier,
You said it better then I did. I do use a set trigger hunting. I have a .32 cal squirrel rifle that I use the set trigger on. I have never used one deer hunting. However I can imagine situations were I might.
Sam

I have killed alot of deer and more than a few squirrels with a .50 TC Hawken.
I have have never shot the rifle without using the set trigger, ever. In all the hundreds of rounds fired over the years at paper, or game, I have always used the set trigger. Its just natural for me. My Set trigger is sears off at 20oz.
If you use the set trigger every time you use the gun it becomes second nature. For goodness sake learn how to unset the trigger safely and return the hammer to half cock, so that if you decide not to take the shot you can make the weapon safe agian, before you take even a single step.

To: Versifier and Ohiosam:
What did you grow up with for firearms? I was pretty much raised with muzzle loaders with set triggers. I can see your points very clearly about not using a set trigger or getting used to one for hunting if you grew up with modern (cartridge), single trigger, hunting rifles. Where I grew up in Central NY it was Muzzle Loader or slug gun for deer. We all hunted with ML's so its what I grew up with. The only single trigger I had for years was an old Remington 511-X. Everything else was ML's.


My father has used a .45cal for the past 20 years or more. He kills deer with it every year, never seen one get away; but he does pick his shots carefully.

At 50M, either the .45 or .50 is slam dunk on deer. Not even and issue. But the .50 is more versitile for big game.

Obviously I'm from Ohio, it's also a shotgun state. My choices when I started deer hunting was either a smoothbore shotgun or a muzzleloader. I used my shotgun at the beginning but wanted more accuracy. I have a little of the attitude that REAL guns have rifleing Shot my first deer with a ML when I was 19 or 20, probably shot over 20 deer with a ML(don't really count). I hunt with a group that puts on drives, when I started hunting with them about 1/2 of the 10 regulars used muzzleloaders all the time. I've probably been involved with well over 150 ML deer kills in the last 27 years. I'm sure some here have more experiance then I, but I've seen enough to form a few opinions.

All the hunters I knew that used .45's have switched to .50's. A .45 round ball will kill a deer, but has some trouble with shoulder bones and "texas heart shots". I'm building a .40 flint lock and intend to shoot a deer with it but will have to be very picky about the shot. If asked by a new ML shooter today I'll recommend a 50 and a sabot.

As far as triggers, cripness and lack of creep is more important to me then weight. The way I hunt I prefer not to use the set trigger when hunting. Most shots are close range and many are running shots. When the deer are close it's quieter and simpler to hold the front trigger back and cock the rifle. If the deer is running I want a trigger I can feel when I squeeze. If I saw a standing deer at 150 yards and tried a shot I might use the set, but probably would forget I have it.

Besides MLs I used to have a commercial Mauser with set triggers and also have a Sharps reproduction with set triggers. There is a definate "COOL" factor to a nice rifle with set triggers. I use inlines more now, but still occasionally use my Renegade. I also use a rifled shotgun(BPS), and killed one deer with a pistol(.44 Contender). If you us set triggers and they work for you great! The original question was about a beginner, then later he mentions practising without the setting the trigger then setting it when hunting. That is what I was talking about.

I shoot a Knight 45 & have yet to have a cripple & I've shot my share of Deer & Hogs. My Knight will about drive nails out to 150 yards, more acurate than I thought it would be. I'm not bashing a 50 but a 45 is still a hell of a round.

Are you shooting sabots, conicals or round balls? I directed my comments toward RB. Since EXPRESS was talking tradional style rifles I thought he was likely to shoot RB. I stand by my comments that 45 cal RB can have trouble on poor shot placement. I also stand by my comment that anything a .45 can do a .50 can do better. With sabots there is less difference but there are more options in .50 cal projectiles. And yes I own both.

Well, we got the rifle, a month or so late but it's here. I only got to spend one day with it, then I had to leave for some business.
In the end I got him the Pedersoli Pennsylvania in .45, it's a nice gun, seems to balance well, surprisingly light and seems accurate, shots touching at 25 yards.

The gun is a hoot! Initally I didn't think it was going to have enough whach for pigs and fallow deer, which tend to be pretty tough beasts, tougher than pigs in many cases.

What surprised me initally was how quiet and how little recoil it has, it wasn't until I tried shooting it out past 100 meters that I was pleasantly surprised that no, there wasn't any visible lag between report and impact and yes, it did some remarkable damage.

For the moment all I've tried is 45 grains of FFFg which I think is quite light but for getting used to the rifle will be fine, and I am now very confident it will kill enphatically at reasonable ranges.

I've heard of starting anywhere from 45 grains to 90 grains! So I rekon I'm right at the bottom with this one. When I get back I'll run some rounds through my Chronograph and see what we're getting. What should be the max speed for a 133gn round ball?

I am considering getting a .54 cal for myself, but first want to see how this performs.

Where is a good source for some sabot slugs for this rifle?

I think if I remember right 70 grains seems about right for max velocity in my .45. More then that and you'll just be blowing unburnt powder out the muzzle unless you have a very long barrel. It's been a long time since I've chronied any Black Powder and even longer with round balls but I think it was around 1600fps. I'll admit I havn't shot my .45 much in several years.

If you cast your own bullets the Lee REAL bullets are a pretty good choice for hunting if they will shoot in you rifle. Lee makes both 200 and 250gr REAL molds in .45 cal.
http://www.trackofthewolf.com/categories/partList.aspx?...ubID=126&styleID=980
For Sabots check out Hornady.

Rusty, I grew up with bolt action .22's and centerfires. I was in my mid-twenties when I started muzzle loading. I still hunt with the T/C .54 Renegade I bought way back then, though now it sports a Green Mountain barrel. My hesitancy and opinions about set triggers are mostly due to my experience as a Hunter Ed Instructor. It takes a lot of practice and years of experience (which it sounds like you have plenty) to safely use light set or "hair" triggers in a hunting situation. So many novice shooters and hunters mount their rifles with a finger in the trigger guard despite warnings, patient instruction, and/or jumping up and down and screaming at them. I cannot in good conscience consider sending anyone into the woods using one unless I know for sure that they will have been putting in the range time with someone who has enough experience to make sure they get the proper training. And you know, even with almost thirty years of shooting mine and thousands of rounds fired, I still wouldn't trust myself with the set trigger when the buck comes walking through or jumps up in front of me and my adrenaline starts flowing. My T/C has a great trigger that feels just like the one on my .308 and breaks at just about the same point, and I am so used to both of them that I can concentrate on what I'm shooting AT instead of what I'm shooting with. In other words, I know my own limits and I am comfortable working within them.