ok...ive had this hawkin T/C for a long time and just never got along with it. ive tryed long bullets of just about every kind and weight. powder charges from 45 gr to 130 gr. ive tryed r/b of three dia and patchs of diff thickness with all r/b's. and the very best 50 yard group i ever got was with T/C long bullets of 420 gr if memory serves. this bullet grouped into a very lose 7.5 inch at 50 yards. never close enough for my taste for hunting and very disapointing for fun shooting.

so the question is.......which barrel would you suggest for fitting to my existing T/C hawkins platform. oh and also i want a 60+ twist so as to shoot R/B exclusivly. do the green river barrels do well and also is there some fitting i will need to do for any of the barrels you will suggest? thanks from a very dissapointed BP shooter.

i built a CVA kentucky rifle when i was a kid and loved it to peices ...accurat to 100 yds and killed several oregon western black tail deer. i just want to find the joy and satasfaction i knew as a kid again.

I'd suggest selling your present gun and building an entirely new one rather than trying to replace the barrel. You'll (or at least I would) get better satisfaction out of the entire thing and since you are in the mood for a quality barrel anyway it is not going to be outrageously more than a new quality barrel anyway.

I don't know how much a new barrel will cost but I only paid around $300.00 for my Lyman deer stalker 54 cal. It really shoots with 425 gr Hornady great plains H.P.'s.

I'm not sure what the options are for twist but I seem to remember that there were some models with twist rates for round balls.

check Track of the Wolf's web site, they have the replacement barrels

Green Mountain Barrels have made a drop in replacement for TC Hawkens for years. The TC's are 1 in 48" twist which was suitable for the old Maxi Balls and Maxi Hunters bullets, as well as a round ball. With that twist, 90 grs of 2ffg should be max for accuracy and power. I am surprised that you can't achieve good accuracy with a round ball at ~60-70 grs 2ffg.

The Green Mountain barrels are 1 in 28", more than fast enough for those 420 slugs. I believe they also sell a drop in barrel with 60" twist, which is round ball only.

Good luck

thanks fella's i would like very much to get this barrel to shoot but guess i need to continue the load/boolit combo's to try to find the combo that works. i have run out of steam on this rifle in the past and hid her inside my closet for many years. i remember that no patch/rb combo worked worth spit. i couldnt get it to group inside 1 foot at 25 yards no matter what i did.never seen this with anything in my experience before. ive tryed that combo yellowstone and the best i ever got was 8 inch at 50 yds. this is not even close to the accuracy i would ever consider for hunting with. i know better is possible with a smokepole as i built a kentucky years ago that would print rb's into two inch at 100 yds all day long...that out of a 45 cal low end cva kit. this t/c was a kit also that i built but really all i did was complete the stock and assemble...pretty easy or a "kit". but never got her to shoot woth a damn so am looking for another barrel to try. everybody that handles the green mt barrels is out everytime i look into it . i would try the 58 cal rb barrel as well.......not really interested in 50 cal as i would like to run bound balls to hunt with and these moose here expect 54 and better before they will consent to fall down from that big blast of smoke.

i have a lever gun in 45 cal that if i cant get this to work...i will start the path to holy black inside the cart in this rifle to hunt with.

thanks again fellas...and i dont know if i want to try another kit gun as i own a great plains kit now that i have yet to build...this kit is what i expected of a kit...metal work to do...browning the furniture and the whole works...just havnt gotten the steam up to tackle it yet.

Ted,
It sounds like you have an unfixable problem with that barrel. I realize it has to come from Alaska, but you might send it to TC and see if they will replace it. Maybe pull the breech plug and look for the gremlin inside. I dunno.

However, you're quite right about using a .50 RB on moose. They could be dead for quite some time before they realize it. Also, a .54 RB will weight 230-235 grains. A much better choice IMHO is the .58 caliber. A .570 RB weighs in at 280 grains. Depending on the muzzleloader barrel twist and rifle you can get bullets in the 500 to 600 grain wt. range. Of course I go in for heavy calibers here in Montana and I don't have to contend with some of your behemouths up north. They're big enough around here to cause some moment of truth stress.

I agree with Mark. Get a new gun.

The .50 TC I had back in the early 70's would hold around 1 1/2" to 2", if fed a .495" ball with a .020" denim patch fired with 80gr. 2F - lubed with spit or bear's oil. About 5 or 6 others did exactly the same once we found out how to feed them.

If your barrel has been fired with the phoney powders, ie: pyro and t-7 - it is probably toast.

Shot through both lungs with a .490 or .495" RB, the moose usually drops within 15 yards - depending on how scared he got at the sound of the gun going off. sometimes they might run 50 yards, rarely farther. They go the same distance when double lunged with a .54, or .58 round ball. If you want to have to track them a long way, just shoot them with a slug from a round ball gun. BAD choice. Been there, done that.

guess i been outta the loop for longer then i thought . i started this search for the rite powder/ball/bullet combo a long time ago and as memory serves...i started with the "fake" powders. i never got this barrel to shoot from the start and at sometime i switched to the "real" black powder. dont remember which brand tho as i was prwtty descusted by this point.

point here is ive never heard of ruining a barrel using the "fake" powder. how is this done and why if i may ask? the gun was and is clean at all times. never shot more then 5 shots without swabbing with hot soapy water and following with a oil bath and finally a wipe down before going back to shooting. now if i had ever found the sweet load...i wouldnt have been so anal about my cleaning practice BUT i have been in the quest of finding the huinting accuracy i see and hear from other 54 cal T/C hawkins shooters.

thought about scoping to develope loads but i shoot my 444 and 45/70 just fine with a similar peep sight...and yes it is tight and no movement.

i think i will send it to T/C and see if they will either find the prolem or replace with another barrel.

i am interested in the reasson that "fake" powder will ruin a barrel tho?

I don't know about the latest or later generation of black powder substitutes but I do know that the original Pyrodex developed by Dan Pollock before he was killed was nothing more than black powder with a fire retardent in the mix. It was still hydroscopic. It still fouled, just not as bad, and if left uncleaned it would ruin a barrel just like black powder, especially in humid climate.

I still have most of a pound of Clean Shot Powder in 3ffg. All it states on the label is that it contains no sulfur. Volume for volume loading as in Pyrodex and not even a hint of instructions about cleaning proceedures. I was told this stuff is murder on barrels, but why I don't know. I guess I should throw it away, but it must be a collectors item. I believe they are long out of business.

Maybe Daryl can enlighten us.

"Clean Shot" is now American Pioneer. The Clean
Shot company got sued out of existance by Hodgdon
for using the name "pellets". American Pioneer
now calls their pellets "sticks". They also have
the loose powder. Jim Shockey powder is American
Pioneer powder supposedly better sifted for
granule size, at a greatly increased price.

Thanks for the update. I notice that American Pioneer Powder isn't sponsoring Shockey's preview of the next week show anymore. Just an observation.
I think I will "stick" with plain old black powder. The new clean burning stuff is good for cap and ball revolvers. They are a pain in the but to load and shoot, and 3fffg will foul the cylinder PDQ. Ya really got to like playing with Walkers and '51 Navies.

Yellowstone, if you can find a GM drop in BBL, .58 caliber with the 1x72 twist it is the way to go for RB shooting. It is some kind of powerful and flat shooting.

I have only used Pyrodex and various grades of black powder in my rifles, which are mostly TC. I had a barrel that was somewhat better shooting than yours (5 inches at 100 yards) and TC replaced it without question. I bought the rifle from a used gun rack at a bow shop. I like black better than pyrodex as it is much easier to clean but got great accuracy from both powders. Perhaps the crown on your barrel is damaged.

All of the nonsugar based phoney powders contain percholates - ie; chlorate - the same stuff that made primers corrosive back in the 'old days'. Instead of a tiny bit of cholorate in a primer being corrosive, 17% of the CHARGE of phoney powder is corrosive - it's your barrel - have fun.

If your barrel has the short smooth counterbored muzzle, you may want to examine it closely. A number of those counterbores for the traditional guns were slightly offcenter.

more from an egg suckin barrel. yep you guessed it...im stuborn n dont give up easy.

i cleand the thing till im ashamed of myself. coated it with lead/copper remover, then soaked for 1 hour and scrubbed with bore shine for 45 min with the brass bristle scrubber. then in the house to the sink to scrub some more with very soapy hot hot water.

after this cleaning,,,i took her out again to try some more. loaded pyro select with a 530 rb patched with a thomson preloobed 15 th patch. shot 50 gr of the select and bingo she actually hit where i pointed it. went up in grains at 5 gr increases till i was at 70 grains and still shot very well.

didnt put her on paper then so i came home and cleaned her with hot soapy water till she shone like a miror. days later with a grin on my face,,,i went out to see exactly what kind of accuracy i could get with a hunting load. loaded it with 80 gr select behind the 530 and 15 th patch. she went to shit again. wouldnt shoot for crap and i burned 1/2 lbs powder thinking it was me. nope it wasnt me!! i ,,out of frustration,,loaded back to the 50 gr load and bingo....accuracy was back.

question is...what can i expect for killing power with this round ball ahead of 50 measly gr of powder?

ok ok ok i hear some groans and some huffing and puffing. WHY DONT HE TRY BLACK POWDER?????
well allow me to tell you fellas.......i live in northern alaska and ive searched high and low for the holy black. NON let me repeat NON to be had. believe me i would try it if i can find it.

so there ya have it. any input is apreciated.

quote:

Originally posted by ted fries:
so the question is.......which barrel would you suggest for fitting to my existing T/C hawkins platform. oh and also i want a 60+ twist so as to shoot R/B exclusivly. do the green river barrels do well and also is there some fitting i will need to do for any of the barrels you will suggest? thanks from a very dissapointed BP shooter.

I have an ancient 50cal T/C Renegade that I purchased new. I never thought much of the rifle and used it little as I had several nice customs. I won a Green Mountain drop-in 54cal barrel with a 1-70" twist at a shoot and stuck it in the old Renegade using the factory lock. I was preparing to take this combo on a black bear hunt and decided to vet this rifle at a match using a full hunting load. I needed to change the sights out to a primitive style fixed sight but I used 90 grains Goex 2f with .535 roundballs and homemade patching material. The championship was attended by outstanding shooters from four states. When the smoke cleared, only two men of the many competitors were able to best my scores. In addition, I was told I was the first person in 35 years of competition to cut all my cards without a miss.

Brad Emig built my personal competition York rifle which shoots a match load about as good as it gets. I spent a ton of money and Bad spent a ton of time working on that rifle. With all that said, that ugly looking factory T/C with the drop-in Green Mountain barrel is right on its heels in regards to accuracy. Add to this it took a nice black bear on that hunting trip. Not sure if that barrel is available today, but it would be an excellent choice for shooting roundballs.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/gary2va/4729803799/

Best

quote:

Originally posted by Daryl S.:
All of the nonsugar based phoney powders contain percholates - ie; chlorate - the same stuff that made primers corrosive back in the 'old days'. Instead of a tiny bit of cholorate in a primer being corrosive, 17% of the CHARGE of phoney powder is corrosive - it's your barrel - have fun.

That is interesting considering many thousands of ML hunters, me being one of them, have used nothing but these powders for many years with no adverse affects.

for what its worth,a GM replaement barrel would solve your accuracy problems.

I have a Renegade and two barrels for it both made by TC. One the 54 shoots round balls and the Lyman minie ball extremely well. I shoot 80 grs of Goex 2F under the Minie and 100 grs. of 3F under the round ball. The other barrel ( 50 caliber) is a real tackdriver with 90 grs. of 3F under a .490 RB. In fact it shoots well with just about any reasonable powder charge. Your gun shoots okay with the lighter charges but not the heavier, then you probably have a patch problem. Your patches after being fired should be almost intact. T shirt material won't get the job done with the heavier charges.