I am going to buy one and wanted to get others opinions of the BP Express Hunter by Ultimate Firearms.

RH1, Great decision!! This gun kills things. I've been shooting a friend of mines for about 3 yrs and it's awesome. It drops deer at 400yds dead! Elk are no problem either. I've been visiting with the sales manager at UF for a couple of months and I'm ordering mine in Feb. They're made to order like taco bell, but much more exciting!!! We've found the best load with 4-50 gr pellets of pyrodex and a 300 gr hornady sst! I'm not going to get into any speech and debates with anybody about this gun. If they want to argue, let them do them do their own thing and we'll do ours. Buy it! It kicks booooooty!!!!!..........wapiti7

Thanks wapiti7. Just the stuff I wanted to hear. I don't want to get into the debates with anybody about this gun either.

Redhawk1,

Have you considered the Savage?

I'd put them side by side in an Accuracy test any day of the week.

W/ smokeless you can achieve greater velocity w/ much less recoil.

Not to mention they are very inexpensive compared to the ultimate.

I strongly question the velocity they claim w/ Pyrodex. They may achieve it by some miracle, I'd have to see the chrony screen to believe.

Good Luck

Reloader

This company has created quite discussion in the past on other boards.

http://www.modernmuzzleloader.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=479&highlight=ultimate

quote:

Originally posted by Reloader:
Redhawk1,

Have you considered the Savage?

I'd put them side by side in an Accuracy test any day of the week.

W/ smokeless you can achieve greater velocity w/ much less recoil.

Not to mention they are very inexpensive compared to the ultimate.

I strongly question the velocity they claim w/ Pyrodex. They may achieve it by some miracle, I'd have to see the chrony screen to believe.

Good Luck

Reloader

I have looked at the Savage, but I can't use it in my State for muzzleloader season. No smokeless powder allowed.

Now I have spoke with Cecil Epp from precision rifle and he thinks I already own the most accurate M/L available, the Encore. It is hard to dish out over $1500 for a muzzleloader. Sure the people at Ultimate Firearms are going to talk up there product and tell you all the good points, but I wanted to know from others that own them if the investment is worth that kind of money. But thanks for the reply.

I bought a BP Express (used) last year and agree its a helluva lot of money for a muzzleloader. However, its a helluva lot of gun! I have not shot it alot yet, but I do know its a tack driver at 100 yds., as lots of other MZ are. I was using (4) 50 gr. 777 pellets and 300 gr. Hornady sabot. Thats what the previous owner shot with success (by the way, he went back and bought another one after trying others). I have a friend that has killed (2) huge Sask. whitetails at 300 yds. with one shot flop/drop kills. I will be doing alot of work with mine at the range this Summer and will chrono with my Oehler 35P. Will report results, but I would be surprised if Ultimate Arms figures aren't approached. It rocks you pretty good out of a 10+ pound rig!

My hole thinking is, my Encore is very accurate to 200 yards with Precision rifles DC 195 gr. sabots, I have taken deer with it out to 165 yards with no problem, is there going to be a $1000 difference?
$1500.00 plus is a big chunk of change to dish out. Also, will the BP Express hold it's value?

quote:

My hole thinking is, my Encore is very accurate to 200 yards with Precision rifles DC 195 gr. sabots, I have taken deer with it out to 165 yards with no problem, is there going to be a $1000 difference?
$1500.00 plus is a big chunk of change to dish out. Also, will the BP Express hold it's value?

No and No, BP guns do not hold value very well.


Your Encore can easily handle three pellet loads and the very minor velocity increase you would gain by adding one pellet to the charge is very minor as well as the trajectory being a minor amount better.

Is a couple of inches at 300 yards worth $1500, that's a question you'll have to answer yourself. (I know it's not to me )

Too bad you can't use smokeless.

You may not be aware but, the Savage does well w/ heavy charges of 777 as well. 140 grains of loose 777 ffg under a 250 SST or a Deadcenter is a pretty flat and swift load out of the Savage. Also a load that shouldn't be attempted in any other MLer. The Savage can handle stout loads of Smokless as well as very big loads of 777 but, the recoil w/ the BP subs is terrible.

I'm curious to know if the guys shooting the 5 pellet loads in the Ultimate are actually getting good groups and How comfy the load is on the shoulder.

Reloader

Thanks Reloader, it is nice to be able to pounce things of others with an open mind.

I thought we weren't going into a speech and debate? All I can say is, if you like to muzzleload, and you like to shoot far, then this gun is for you. Out west we shoot far because there is far to shoot and this gun kicks ass! Thats all I can say! If ya'll are worried about resale and all of that, it'll be like any other expensive gun, harder to sell. But you're buying it to kill like no other will. So it's a personal thing. Anyway, savage guns have and always will suck. They're the blue light special of the gun world. And talk about bad resale?????...........wapiti7

quote:

Originally posted by wapiti7:
I thought we weren't going into a speech and debate? All I can say is, if you like to muzzleload, and you like to shoot far, then this gun is for you. Out west we shoot far because there is far to shoot and this gun kicks ass! Thats all I can say! If ya'll are worried about resale and all of that, it'll be like any other expensive gun, harder to sell. But you're buying it to kill like no other will. So it's a personal thing. Anyway, savage guns have and always will suck. They're the blue light special of the gun world. And talk about bad resale?????...........wapiti7

I just want to make a good decision and get more information before I lay down that kind of cash. Now I don't mind spending money, but I like to make wise decisions. I have a great collection of guns now and have made some rush decisions and regretted it later, but a $1500 mistake is not one I want to make.

quote:

Out west we shoot far because there is far to shoot and this gun kicks ass!

To each their own Wapiti7. I'am glad you've found your personal hunting style.

My western style is a little different, I haven't shot at biggame past 125 yds with a muzzleloader and I can't say I want too...getin' close is too much fun Not to mention I can't amagine carrying a rifle that weights that much, for even a few hours...let alone all day for a week or so, in the steep and deep.

quote:

Anyway, savage guns have and always will suck.

Having never owned one, I was wondering if you could tell me, in what regard do Savage rifles 'Suck' to use your own words? Just curios?

quote:

Anyway, savage guns have and always will suck. They're the blue light special of the gun world. And talk about bad resale?????...........wapiti7

That's a Good One.

Say what you want, Savage's are not my favorite rifles by any means but, they will flat out shoot circles around most other rifles.

I know a gang of guys on another Board that will put their Savage ML10II MLers that "Suck" up against any Mler on the Market in the Accuracy and Strength department any day of the week.

Have a Gooden'

Reloader

This is the reason I hate to comment to anyone , because everyone seems to jump on the "Lashing out" band wagon. I don't know why there's so much hostility, it's like everybody is waiting for someone to post so that they can rip and tear at each other. I hunt in NM,CO and AZ and there is a lot of opportunity to shoot long. If some of you don't like to, don't do it. But my friends and I do. Also, reguardless of whether or not a savage will shoot good or not, they will never be a high-end gun, they'll never be worth good money and they just look cheap! This is my opinion. Anyway, the BP Express is a great gun and I hope that someone else out there gets an opportunity to enjoy one.............wapiti7

quote:

Originally posted by wapiti7:
This is the reason I hate to comment to anyone , because everyone seems to jump on the "Lashing out" band wagon. I don't know why there's so much hostility, it's like everybody is waiting for someone to post so that they can rip and tear at each other. I hunt in NM,CO and AZ and there is a lot of opportunity to shoot long. If some of you don't like to, don't do it. But my friends and I do. Also, reguardless of whether or not a savage will shoot good or not, they will never be a high-end gun, they'll never be worth good money and they just look cheap! This is my opinion. Anyway, the BP Express is a great gun and I hope that someone else out there gets an opportunity to enjoy one.............wapiti7

Thanks, I appreciate your replies. I am still trying to decide if I am going to get it.

quote:

This is the reason I hate to comment to anyone , because everyone seems to jump on the "Lashing out" band wagon. I don't know why there's so much hostility, it's like everybody is waiting for someone to post so that they can rip and tear at each other. I hunt in NM,CO and AZ and there is a lot of opportunity to shoot long. If some of you don't like to, don't do it. But my friends and I do. Also, reguardless of whether or not a savage will shoot good or not, they will never be a high-end gun, they'll never be worth good money and they just look cheap! This is my opinion. Anyway, the BP Express is a great gun and I hope that someone else out there gets an opportunity to enjoy one.............wapiti7

Lay off the Coffee Man, No nobody is lashing out. Heck, you are the only one criticizing other's equipment.

There are many good MLers out there and they are equally capable of the BP Express in all real world cirumstances. Sure the BP Express is a fine rifle but, it has bogus claims just like any other Manufacturer on the market and they darn sure aren't the best out there.

If you want to pay 1500 for a Mler that get's you the very same performance others get from a 400 dollar MLer, Go ahead, whatever floats your boat. Some folks tend to value their money more than others.

Have a Good One

Reloader

RedHawk,

Since you are after some Smoking Performance, Have you considered a custom?

Some of the Custom bbl Makers will make bbls for Mler's as well. A premium grade barrel in the cal, length, and twist you desire will give you what you want and can probably be done for a better cost than a Ultimate.

Say for instance the "Sucky" Savage , You can have Pacnor build whatever bbl you want and convert the ML10II to a smoking machine. If you think it looks cheap, buy a SSS Trigger, an After Market Stock, and there you have it, a custom super power MLer made exactly how you want it. You could build off of a TC Frame......

Just some ideas.

Reloader

I have to agree the brand bashing was started by him. I own some expensive custom barrel cartridge rifles on Mauser actions and also a couple of Savage rifles which shoot just as accurately (maybe a little better) so much for "sucky rifles". I can't use the Savage here either as smokeless is not legal but if I could I would have one.

You might want to get your hands on some BlackMag3 and try it in a stout smokepole like a TC or Knight before you plunck down 1500 bucks .

100 gr (by volume) in my Knight will push a 300 gr SST to near 2000 fps , so I think 2200 is in reach with heavier charges , and Knight will allow up to 150 gr of loose powder .

Even 2100 fps with a 300 grainer is a pretty stout load ; packing nearly 3000 ft lbs at the muzzle......

quote:

100 gr (by volume) in my Knight will push a 300 gr SST to near 2000 fps , so I think 2200 is in reach with heavier charges , and Knight will allow up to 150 gr of loose powder .

Hey SD, you can milk over 2450 fps out of an Omega using 3 Pyro pellets and a 200gr. SST

fairchase

I've tried 3 pellets of 777 under the 200 gr shockwaves . They only got me 2250 fps in my .50 .

In addition , I'm a little leery of that bullet after getting some disapointing penetration on a large buck back in early Dec. It's worked OK for me on a couple of smaller deer , but after that experience , I beleive I will try out something packing more weight in that rifle .

I hear you SD. Those arn't my numbers I'm just passing info along.
I'm too much a fan of big bullets and big holes to worry alot about speed.

quote:

Originally posted by sdgunslinger:
You might want to get your hands on some BlackMag3 and try it in a stout smokepole like a TC or Knight before you plunck down 1500 bucks .

100 gr (by volume) in my Knight will push a 300 gr SST to near 2000 fps , so I think 2200 is in reach with heavier charges , and Knight will allow up to 150 gr of loose powder .

Even 2100 fps with a 300 grainer is a pretty stout load ; packing nearly 3000 ft lbs at the muzzle......

I will pass on the BlackMag3. I use triple7 and it works just fine. There is an article in Peterson hunting mag and they did a comparison of a lot of the BP substituted and triple7 and Pyrodex were the most accurate and had the least amount of standard deviation. As a matter of fact the T7 and Pyro were in the single digits and the BlackMag3 was in the triple digits followed by the newer Goax Pinnacle powders, which did not do so well. Also the accuracy fell in place in relation to the standard deviation.

Reloader, thanks for the suggestions. I am going to work with my Encore for now with my 195 gr. Precision Rifle, DC sabots and my triple7. I am going to try some 300 yards shooting. At 200 I am very confident in my shots with my Encore.

I own a BP Xpress and have had great success with it. I have only hunted with it one season, but it has worked great on hogs and deer. My only complaint with my gun is the Boyd laminate thumbhole stock. It is too heavy and "bulky" for my taste. I am trying to find a synthetic stock for mine.

As for performance, it WILL DO what the company claims. I haven't chronied mine, but the trajectory is greatly improved over my Knight. With a 100 yard zero, my Knight is 11 inches low at 200, but with my BP Xpress, I am only 4 inches low.

These guns are not for everyone, and the price is the limiting factor for most people. If the price doesn't scare you, then I would strongly encourage you to take the plunge. I have 2 Knights, and an Encore ML, but for a non-smokeless gun, the BP Xpress is second to none.

Jeff, thanks...........wapiti7

quote:

Originally posted by Jeff Sullivan:
I own a BP Xpress and have had great success with it. I have only hunted with it one season, but it has worked great on hogs and deer. My only complaint with my gun is the Boyd laminate thumbhole stock. It is too heavy and "bulky" for my taste. I am trying to find a synthetic stock for mine.

As for performance, it WILL DO what the company claims. I haven't chronied mine, but the trajectory is greatly improved over my Knight. With a 100 yard zero, my Knight is 11 inches low at 200, but with my BP Xpress, I am only 4 inches low.

These guns are not for everyone, and the price is the limiting factor for most people. If the price doesn't scare you, then I would strongly encourage you to take the plunge. I have 2 Knights, and an Encore ML, but for a non-smokeless gun, the BP Xpress is second to none.

It is not just the price. I don't have a problem spending the money. If you seen my gun collection you would see I don't skimp on my guns or there optics. I just don't want to pay $1500 to try it out. I may look for a used one and do some testing.

deleted

Redhawk
PM sent.

quote:

Originally posted by Jeff Sullivan:
Redhawk
PM sent.

Sent you back a 3 reply's but you have not answered.

You can trick out your Savage to suit you needs here's a pick of my 10mlII

Redhawk, I'd stick with the Encore. Not that I have anything against the others, (except excessive cost), but not only will it do everything you need it to as a M/Ler, it is an incredibly versatile platform. It's a handgun, rifle, shotgun, & M/Ler all in one and you only have to get used to one trigger for all of them. They're light, fast, and accurate. I am an unabashed fan of T/C products, I own several and there's always room in the gun cabinet for one (or three) more. They hold their value, too.

quote:

Originally posted by Versifier:
Redhawk, I'd stick with the Encore. Not that I have anything against the others, (except excessive cost), but not only will it do everything you need it to as a M/Ler, it is an incredibly versatile platform. It's a handgun, rifle, shotgun, & M/Ler all in one and you only have to get used to one trigger for all of them. They're light, fast, and accurate. I am an unabashed fan of T/C products, I own several and there's always room in the gun cabinet for one (or three) more. They hold their value, too.

I would never get rid of it. I have 4 Encore frames and 5 different barrels.

quote:

Originally posted by smokeeter:
You can trick out your Savage to suit you needs here's a pick of my 10mlII

smokeeter
That is the best looking Savage that I have ever seen. That stock is beautiful. That is also a nice buck, where did you kill him?

smokeeter, very nice buck there.

Well, I decided not to get the BP Xpress. I will stay with my Encore M/L. I am sure the BP is a fine M/L but not worth the $1500 price tag. JMHO.

Thanks to everyone that posted.

Thank you guys, the stock is a straight thumbhole from Richards microfit it is their camo laminate. I have done a conciderable amount of modifications to the Savage, but I find it an enjoyable way to spend some time and the rewards are worth it, this gun will shoot cloverleafs all day long with the right loads.
This deer was shot during the late muzzleloader season in southern Ontario , it was an 80 yrd quartering away shot and the deer was on the run he travelled approx 250 yrd. I shot his mate on the first evening and it was a lasered 199 yrds off of shooting sticks.Both of the bucks were in the 300lb range.