I am coping and pasting a couple of things I wrote. If you have any questions feel free to ask. Ron
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This is a tutorial on making a Hot Rod Renegade or Hawken.
The first part of the process is to acquire a good donor rifle to get your parts from. A guy can order parts from a company like “track of the wolf” but ny the time you get all of that together you are into it a great deal of money. I start out like I said by finding a good donor rifle. I like the double set triggers but The Renegades with the single trigger were called the Renegade Hunter. They are also a great rifle but they just don’t have the adjustable trigger.
The Renegades are a 1” across the flats. The Hawkens are 15/16 for rifles up to 50 cal. Past 50 cal the Hawkens are all 1” across the flats. When buying your Green Mountain barrel you will need to figure out which barrel you need. I like the fast twist barrels for shooting conicals. So for a Renegade you would order a 1-28 twist 1” across the flats.
The Green Mountain barrel is not a true drop in barrel. Most of the time the under rib will make solid contact with the end on the stock. A couple of things can be done to correct this. You can cut a short piece off the under rib or you can use a file and remove a small amount of wood off the tip. I chose to remove the wood.





After that the barrel should fit on the stock. The next thing that might give a guy a bit of problem is the hammer. The hammer must strike the nipple square. If it doesn’t the caps will not go off as well as they should. Misfires will happen because the cap is not hit right. The hammer should look like this. I used a torch to heat this one up to make it strike correctly.



If a guy wants to install a set of Lyman Peep sights bending the thumb part of the hammer is a good idea since it allows for more room to cock the gun.





If a guy wants to add a Uncle mikes Swivel to the under rib to allow for a sling a couple of things need to be done. The Uncle mikes has a screw that goes through the under rib and into the barrel of a TC rifle. The Green Mountain only has threads in the under rib. So what you need to do is use the Green Mountain screw but you need to drill the end of the swivel stud open just enough to allow for a small screw driver. Use care when drilling this it is easy to mess this up. also like I said before use the smallest drill that you can and only drill through the top part.





Now the whole thing fits together, and it all looks great. Now take it all apart again remove EVERY screw from the under rib and clean it with mineral spirits. Also take the screws out of the lug that the wedge pin goes into and clean them as well. After they are all clean reinstall with either nail polish on the threads or light duty lock tight.

Now to install the sights. First remove the old sights.

Putting a Lyman 57 SML peep on a TC has two options. One is some of them were already drilled and tapped for the sight, I have seen several. Option #2 is drilling the tang your self. I have done four now and if I can do it anyone can.
What I wanted to do was give you the idiots view of how to install the Lyman 57 SML sight. I took one of the plastic cases I got with one of my Lyman sights and made it a sight installation kit.
It has a # 29 S drill bit, S stands for short in the Brownells catalog.
Also the kit has an 8-32 tap.
And it has a small Tap Wrench.
On The TC’s, and the Cabelas Hawken the sight base is too thick where it meets up with the wood next to the tang. I have seen this problem solved two ways. I have seen guys remove the wood and the way I do it. I remove some of the aluminum from the base so it will sit down all the way without touching the wood. I take the slider out of the base and gently sit the base in a vise and tighten it down. I use an Angle grinder to remove the metal. You can also use rat-tail files and bastard files. After I am done taking the metal away it looks like this.




Now to put the base on.
I start out by removing the rear screw and I set the sight base on the tang and then I put the screw back in but not tight. I line the sight up, and use a small punch to go through the front screw hole in the sight base to make a dent in the tang to start the hole to be drilled.
You can also put masking tape on the tang and draw a line through the holes. This will give you your strait line to make sure that the hole is drilled in a strait line with the other two holes in the tang. Then put the base on like I said above and mark the spot to be drilled.
Then I take the tang off the stock and lock the tang into a vise. Make sure you are drilling straight down. Then I use the tap to make the threads. Make sure you have the tap lined up like you just did the drill bit. Start the tap in, go a little ways and back it up. Then go forward again and back it up. Do this several times until the threads are cut. You MUST back up once and a while or you will break the tap. Also make sure you apply lube to help the tap cut.



After I thread the screw hole in the tang I install the tang on the stock. I put the rear screw into the sight base, but not tight. Then I use a small shim to raise the front of the sight base. I used galvanized metal that was .0035 “ thick and a little narrower than the sight base. I didn’t like the way the sight tended to “lean forward” on the tang. After the shim the sight to me tends to move more vertical. After I got the shim under the screw I lined the hole, added lock tight to the screw and installed the 8-32 screw to the front of the sight base. Here is what the sight base looks like installed.







A picture with the slider installed. Notice I added white paint to the 0 to make it stand out. Also I took the scale off the slider and used a drill bit to increase the length to give me a little more range.



Sorry about this picture being a little cockeyed.








OK, What happens if I screw up and drill the hole in the wrong place?
Well several things can happen.
1— If the hole is drilled left or right of the centerline the windage will not move at the right angle.
2— if the hole is not drilled with the right amount of distance between the holes it will not sit down right. Even to the point of not being able to install with this hole.

If you drill in the wrong place DON’T WORRY!!!! Anything can be fixed.
First if you have a welder weld the hole closed. If you don’t have a welder most towns have a place that can do this. After it is closed smooth down the weld with a grinder and a file. Round two. Really watch what you are doing on round two. Check everything several times and drill again. After the hole is drilled in the right place and the metal is filed or grinded down. Apply cold blue to cover up the repair.
I have messed up plenty of times. In the end it is not that hard to install these sights.. Make sure to check everything and don’t get in a rush. I know I have probably forgotten something. If you are going to try this for your self and have any questions feel free to ask. These last pictures are my latest rifle. I used a spacer under this sight to give me some extra yardage. Ron

Ron: Great explination of how you set your rifle up, especially for the sights.
Have you ever tried the TC Peep sights? I was wondering how they compare to the Lymans for hunting?

I have a Renegade set up with the Green Mtn shorter LRH barrel and really don't like the way I have to use a very short front blade with the peep. I was thinking a longer barrel on another renegade would allow for a higher front blade.

I have only used Knight lead sabots in this barrel which do a job on deer, but the paper-patched slugs look pretty interesting. How hard do they load? (push with a short starter or smack with your hand and a short starter)

The TC peeps are not field adjustable. SO like on my guns I use the range finder and range it at 125 yards. I set the sight for 125 yards. If the range finder says 89 yards like on my antelope hunt I set it for about that give or take a yard or two. This is what I like the most about the sights. I don't hold over or under I aim dead on no matter the yardage. The paper patched bullets have resistance but are easy to push down the barrel. I have never had one slide out. That CAN'T happen. Ron

Very interesting. So I assume that you have preset marks on the sight for your elevation?

Ever try newer powders? One gentleman at my range actually uses 777 in his T/C with musket caps. I have gotten rid of my 777 and switched to B209 or Shocky's gold in my in-lines.

I tried the T7 but didn't have as good of groups. The P is the best I have used so far. Ron

Good looking rifle! I use the same peep on my Hawken with a GM barrel. How does she shoot?

God Bless, Louis

This is a group from the hawken.



This is a group from one of the renegades.



this is from my other renegade.

Years back I took an old Renegade that I'd purchased long before and installed a GM round ball barrel, primitive sights, and I hand tuned the lock. I rebuilt this Renegade for an upcoming bear hunt. I was able to quickly work up a hunting load, but I was short on time and needed to vet this rifle before the trip. I was shooting muzzleloading competition back then and was also preparing for the state championship that was being held the weekend before my hunting trip. In competition I was shooting a custom Emig York Rifle, but I had packed the Renegade in hopes of getting some free time to shoot it a bit.

Well on a last second whim, I decided to park my competition rifle to shoot this Renegade in the Championships. I was more interested in the hunting trip so I went ahead and used my full charge bear loads for the competition thinking that I'd get a good vetting of the rifle. I was normally a top shooter, but this competition had top shooters from four states and I wasn't expecting much with the hunting rig. To my shock and amazement I took 3rd Place from the field of competitors. I was only 1X from second and 2 points from 1st. That clunky little hobbled together Renegade shot darn near as accurate as my very expensive custom built York rifle. Don't underestimate one of those old T/Cs.

Here is a picture of a few of the many targets shot off hand with this Renegade that weekend. Not sure if it had been done since, but up to that point, that was the first time in 30 some years of competition that anyone cut all four cards without a single miss. Great rifle!



To add icing to the cake, I went on that spot and stalk bear hunt and managed to double lung a nice 350 pound black bear at 40 yards.

Best

Ron, Gary: Very inspiring posts. I had a .50 Renegade and hung a Green Mountain .54 round ball twist barrel on it, and dang that rifle would shoot. Miss it. Might have to do her again ...

Am looking for someone to build me a ML similar to Ron's...anyone got any suggestions???

Everything is pretty much outlined. I would be glad to help you by answering any questions either by email or phone. Ron

Got my donor rifle in-hand, GM barrel in the mail.

Alright. We will walk through this. I am here to help. Ron

A question for those who have any kind of rear sight on a hook-breech rifle, NOT mounted on the bbl:
Do you remove the bbl. for cleaning..??
IF you do...is it necessary to re-zero after re-assembling..??

No you don't have to re zero after taking them off. I have several set up with tang sights and they all stay sighted in. ROn

Great posts! You are inspiring me to stay with my effort to refinish a take-off Renegade stock and mate it with a GM barrel and parts from a second Renegade. I got distracted but need to get it done and go shoot.

While these rifles do shoot very well there is also a cool factor with them.
Stay with your project and post some pictures when your done. If you need any info feel free to ask. Ron

Thanks for the tips Ron!

I am on the border of doing some bidding on Gunbroker for a Left Handed Renegade as I would like a Percussion .54 that shot Conicals, and also having a .58 Roundball shooter.

I just need to hold out a lil longer to see if a good quality one shows up.


In your first post you mentioned a Hawken. I am guessing Green Mountain will also sell their barrels to work with those? There was a guy at the last gunshow I went to that had 3 of the T/C Hawkens on his table...all in RH...and one of them was in .54. The cheekpiece on the wrong side and the $395 price tag kept me away on the used rifle...but I think if he went down some I'd be interested.

What is a good price for a used Renegade/Hawken? I've seen Buy It Now's from $200-$500.


Justin

I don't know if Green Mountain makes a left hand barrel or not. Lee makes a neat bullet for a .54 cal. It is a hollow base mimie that measures .533 I think. If you wrapped two wraps of 9# onion skin you would have right at .54 and it would be snug enough to keep the bullet on the powder. I have one of these moulds but so far I have not made any yet.
The green mountain 1" barrel will fit either the 54 cal Hawken or the Renegade. the .45 and 50 cal Hawken both use a 15/16 barrel and they make them too.
You can get a pretty nice Hawken or Renegade for under 200. A real real nice one would be 300. Mint never been shot would be 395.

Just an update ron, i bought a lh .54 renegade two days ago off gunbroker. Ill update with pics when it arrives!

Very good. Keep us posted how your doing. Ron

About 5 years ago I drew a Tule Elk tag in CA it was a M/L tag 5 issued for the Owens Valley.
Having owned and shot alot L/R M/L's target rifles I wanted a hunting rifle with the capabilities of my L/R Gibbs rifle give or take the shortcomings of the peep sight.(250yd.max)Also having owning and shooting Sharps cartridge rifles I new there were barrels out there that could be adapted to a percussion lock and fast twist 45 cal barrel(1'18 45-70 spec's.)
I bought one of the Green Mountain drop in barrels for the Renegade I had just purchased.A brand new never fired Renegade for $400.00.my experience with drop in barrel was exactly like Idaho Ron's.I chose to trim the rib right up to the wood.I used the T/C peep sight, the shop I bought the rifle in drilled and tapped the holes.
I have 4 moulds for 45 cal (.458)from 405gr-560gr.I bought 2 Lee bullet sizers and lubed and sized .458 bullets to .451-52.I settled on a Paul Jones 520gr. Creedmoor bullet 85gr.Swiss 1.5ffg.tamp powder after dumping with a fiber wad then a lubed felt wad then a fiber wad then seat the bullet.This would give one ragged hole @200yds.from the bench.For hunting I blunted the nose of the Creedmoor bullet to get a big fat meplat.It took me 12 hrs. to kill my elk,one shot @125 yds to the chest never took another step.
I have been warned by David Minshall, expert L/R M/L shooter. He indicated the T/C Renegade and Hawkin are not designed to handle heavy powder and bullet loads.The rifles are some what weak in the wrist area.I have limited my loads to 80grs.Swiss 1.5 ffg and the Creedmoor bullet.I size this bullet all the way down to .448-.449 for a Gibbs L/R M/L.This bullet will shoot in 3 rifles I own as cast and sized.
The use of the lubed felt wad really helps on fouling control.I can get 3 accurate shots with out wiping before fouling is an issue with no detrimental effect on accuracy.
I applied the same technique with a Austin Halleck .50 cal in-line M/L and a custom made 50 cal conical bullet from Paul Jones,the expense and effort was very much worth the effort.

Finally made it out today to shoot the .54. This thing is very fun to shoot! The scope was as expected...junk and broken I believe. The rest of the range session I was shooting open sight. I don't see how people are shooting clover leafs at 100 yards with one. I see more practice in the future...

The big thing about shooting small groups is the quality of the sight. Stock TC sights are not going to shoot consistent small groups. They are just too large to aim small. Now the peep sight and globe are a different animal all together. The insert I use is the Lee Shavers inserts. These are used in BPCR long range shoots. My son shot his rifle for the first time in two years. His first two shots were touching at 100 yards but 3" low of dead center.



He was bummed out that it shot 3" low. I said boy you just shot two shots almost inside each other. The 3" low doesn't mean a thing. Your mule deer won't know the difference if your aiming dead center. I shot a great 100 yard group out of my hot rod hawken.



This was a 316 gr 45 cal minie sized to .446 and paper patched then sized again to .451. No wad was used with this load. the powder was 80 gr of pyrodex P. Ron