This country is in a divorce crisis in its current era. The root cause for divorce is the lack of ‘loyalty and devotion.’

The most loyal and devoted generation to this country that I have ever witnessed was The Greatest Generation of Americans — the people who stomped out Naziism. They proudly professed their loyalty and devotion to this country at every opportunity and thanked God for the privilege to be a part of it.

The concern I have for the longevity of this country has zero to do with fringe groups…it has EVERYTHING to do with the loss of loyalty and devotion to this nation.

Nationalistic pride was celebrated openly by the generation who quelled Naziism and Imperialism in WWII —— in fact I would argue it was the driving force for them.

If you want this country to survive WWIII…we had better start looking for a bit of Nationalism.

Maybe that regain in the qualities of loyalty and devotion will correct a lot of other evils at the same time.

Charles Lindbergh was a "Nationalist", at least it sounds like he fits your definition. He didn't try to stomp out Hitler, he praised him, just like many of your "friends" praise Putin. https://www.britannica.com/bio...erica-First-movement

There were a lot of really "devoted" and "loyal" misguided people in MAGA hats storming the Capitol on January 6th. Those become meaningless words when they are misused.

By the way, I've been married more than once, how about you. Time to climb down off the cross.

Are we talking about divorce or are using divorce as a metaphor or allegory for what you percussion as Citizens who have divorced themselves from American Values?

I strongly reject the metaphor if so.

One and first marriage here being 12 years. If she divorces me or does, I will never again.

I would hate to have to wake up every day with the attitude that many of the far right on here have that the sky is falling, the best days are behind us, the collapse of society is imminent, another world war is right around the corner, it's all downhill from here, I need to go out and bury some more food in the backyard, silent black helicopters are hovering over me, etc. . . . talk about waking up on the wrong side of the bed. Sheesh.

Here's an article that I find confusing and imformative at the same time.

I've been looking for the appropriate thread to post it.

This is how Christians think.

From the out, looking in, think DJT. Is he a wolf or a bully sheep?

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news...4341a18352a18e453e18

Not all who harm the church are wolves. Some are renegade sheep.
Opinion by Religion News Service • Yesterday 4:05 PM

Yet when the war started, Lindbergh was begging to be allowed to fly and fight the enemies of the US.

It isn’t quite so simple.

I think Lindbergh was somewhat influenced by the unfairness of the armistice and later Versailles treaty, and then saw how Germany went from a wasteland to a prosperous and (outwardly) happy land as compared to the continual issues of the rest of Europe. I think part was also the Lindbergh had done well, and was very adverse to communism and the Nazis pre war were “the only ones taking the red menace seriously.”

That doesn’t justify the innate issues with Nazism, but can explain why they had an appeal to others from a distance. Goebbels was good at what he did…

Nationalism as an identifying force can be used for good or ill. It allows a disparate group to overcome tribalism and local interests only, but at the expense of possibly overriding some subgroup that doesn’t quite fit the national image.

I don’t deny that (with some exceptions) that the vast majority of the democrats are nationalists, but do I agree with their view of what our country should be?

That’s the issue.

Whether or not you agree with specific policies has nothing to do with one’s nationalism.

Both sides use the canard that the opposition is “unamerican” to denigrate the other side to get more votes. The truth is America is as a nation what its population is and agrees on.

It is summed up as my nation, right or wrong, is still my nation… and it’s up to us to fix what is wrong, and protect what is right.

quote:

Originally posted by Kensco:
Charles Lindbergh was a "Nationalist", at least it sounds like he fits your definition. He didn't try to stomp out Hitler, he praised him, just like many of your "friends" praise Putin. https://www.britannica.com/bio...erica-First-movement

There were a lot of really "devoted" and "loyal" misguided people in MAGA hats storming the Capitol on January 6th. Those become meaningless words when they are misused.

By the way, I've been married more than once, how about you. Time to climb down off the cross.

Is Melania wife #4?

I should have never used marital divorce as an analogy…it was in poor taste…my bad.

But I can attest to WWII veterans. Battery F of the 131st Field Artillery 2nd Battalion or “the Lost Battalion of World War II” was from Jacksboro, TX. Five of the members from that group were close family friends one their wives was one of my grade school teachers. This not to mention family members in other aspects of WWII. Jacksboro, because of the Lost Battalion was a very patriotic and nationalistic town. The vast majority of of those guys lived in Jack County TX until they died. A couple were very close to me growing up.

I can tell you that group was the most loyal and devoted to country group of men to ever live. They never missed an opportunity to praise the country and thank God for allowing them to be in the greatest country on earth. They were loudest singers of the National Anthem and loved to recite the Pledge of Allegiance. They were strong men. What they endured in prison camp was horrendous.

Guaranteed if ME were around them as a group…he would label them as Christian Nationalists…even though they sacrificed hugely to quell Naziism and imperialism of 20th century.

There is little to nothing in modern popular culture that isn't about self, the individual, the degradation of other, greed, narcissism, personal advancement.

I don't think I see much media that promotes duty, sacrifice, service, humility or commitment and I don't believe the media prioritizes issues and topics very far outside majority public opinion.

There is absolutely no question about it…this country was stronger and less divided when it was more nationalistic…when we stood together on the foundation of the country—something we used to all stand up for.

Hate to say it but I agree.
Most no longer know their neighbor in urban settings.

quote:

Originally posted by Scott King:
There is little to nothing in modern popular culture that isn't about self, the individual, the degradation of other, greed, narcissism, personal advancement.

I don't think I see much media that promotes duty, sacrifice, service, humility or commitment and I don't believe the media prioritizes issues and topics very far outside majority public opinion.

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:
There is absolutely no question about it…this country was stronger and less divided when it was more nationalistic…when we stood together on the foundation of the country—something we used to all stand up for.

[FLASH_VIDEO]<iframe frameborder="0" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/Hm4_rXQAyLM" title="YouTube video player" width="560">[/FLASH_VIDEO]

Charlie Daniel’s charted more songs higher on the pop chart than he ever did on the country chart. Although Devil went Down to GA did go Country No 1.

quote:

Originally posted by Scott King:
There is little to nothing in modern popular culture that isn't about self, the individual, the degradation of other, greed, narcissism, personal advancement.

I don't think I see much media that promotes duty, sacrifice, service, humility or commitment and I don't believe the media prioritizes issues and topics very far outside majority public opinion.

You just described what the left has been working towards for decades......


.

quote:

Devil went Down to GA did go Country No 1

Maybe it's just me, but I would assert that having a band of demons is grounds for disqualification in a fiddle context....

Michael Cleveland on fiddle puts those demons to shame

https://youtu.be/MFHVOuKS8-8

Met him several times at Northern Missouri bluegrass festivals. Blind, and a real superman. Lived on his fiddle, carried it to lunch. He played a stretch with Rhonda Vincent & the Rage.

I think that at least twice in my adult life America has unified and stood for the call to duty and sacrifice and it was squandered both times.

I looked it up last night, but don't remember exactly at the moment, hundreds of thousands of Americans were serving as a volunteer army during the Gulf War and millions of Americans served since 9/11. Here we are today after all that, it appears more fractured than ever.

Boarkiller and I used to disagree about the need for a Head of State/ Figurehead/ "Ruler" to lead our nation, and as I look around I think we still do need one. I look around when out on the street and I ain't sure my fellow American seem capable of, "Live Free or Die!".

Back to my original thought, I think that the Gulf War and the War on Terror were both good opportunities to take advantage of the unity then being felt by Americans. When we already were holding hands and rallied to a cause would have been a great time to forge further and stronger bonds and loyalty.

Crap.

The so-deemed pandemic was an opportunity.

The so-deemed climate crisis, another op.

The species extinctions, another.

We all know what happened.

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:
Guaranteed if ME were around them as a group…he would label them as Christian Nationalists…even though they sacrificed hugely to quell Naziism and imperialism of 20th century.

That's something I never thought about.

I think it's strange that you make that claim.

For one thing Nazism was real and a threat. A lot of the stuff you believe is a threat is made up shit.

In fact, I wouldn't even be here if my father wasn't a survivor of WWII. He was a Christian, for sure, but NOTHING like the Christian Nationalists today.

quote:

Originally posted by Scott King:
There is little to nothing in modern popular culture that isn't about self, the individual, the degradation of other, greed, narcissism, personal advancement.

I don't think I see much media that promotes duty, sacrifice, service, humility or commitment and I don't believe the media prioritizes issues and topics very far outside majority public opinion.

Is it conservativism or liberalism that in recent years have enthroned individualism?

And dethroned the social contract?

We have the re-branding or sale of Jesus as our personal friend with ads during the super-bowl. Millions of $ from far-right Christian Nationalists.

Nothing there re, duty, sacrifice, humility or commitment as virtues.

Jesus gets us is the message.

So, don't blame mainstream media.

Also:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/life...4f8fa2f4c43fb8be4e53

Men, the 'epidemic of loneliness' and how it got this bad
Story by Patrick Ryan, USA TODAY • Yesterday 10:22 AM

quote:

Originally posted by Magine Enigam:

quote:

Originally posted by Scott King:
There is little to nothing in modern popular culture that isn't about self, the individual, the degradation of other, greed, narcissism, personal advancement.

I don't think I see much media that promotes duty, sacrifice, service, humility or commitment and I don't believe the media prioritizes issues and topics very far outside majority public opinion.

Is it conservativism or liberalism that in recent years have enthroned individualism?

And dethroned the social contract?

M.E., you know how much I like you, but,......

There isn't a modern tune on the radio , be it country, rap, rock or other that doesn't extole narcissism. There isn't an advertisement on the internet or in print that doesn't promote self, consumerism, materialism.

I watched a movie the other night that was about a relationship and it's extensions based on lies! I was genuinely surprised and put off. The main characters lied to each other out of habit, their extended family lied about and to each other out of convenience and habit, it was portrayed as The New Normal.

Would you agree that our Representative Don Young held on too long to his seat out of a sense of self importance and narcissism? Biden, Pelosi Schumer and McCain should have stepped aside years before they did.

Come on Man! Like the Nazis and Tojo, even 20th century Communism, terrorism and specifically Islamic Terrorism were real world threats that Americans initially united against. There were further alliances to be made in that time that were squandered.

quote:

Would you agree that our Representative Don Young held on too long to his seat out of a sense of self importance and narcissism?

Yes.

I think you and Lane are saying we need a National boogie or some sort of threat to unite us.

Somehow that would fix tunes on the radio, narcissism, consumerism, materialism, greed, scapegoating, and let's throw in conspiracy theories. And also promote duty, sacrifice, service, humility, and church attendance.

Am I understanding that correctly?

Try to anticipate where I might go with this. So many paths.

quote:

Would you agree that our Representative Don Young held on too long to his seat out of a sense of self importance and narcissism? Biden, Pelosi Schumer and McCain should have stepped aside years before they did.

Don't leave out that fossil Grassley.

quote:

Originally posted by Magine Enigam:

quote:

Would you agree that our Representative Don Young held on too long to his seat out of a sense of self importance and narcissism?

Yes.

I think you and Lane are saying we need a National boogie or some sort of threat to unite us.

Somehow that would fix tunes on the radio, narcissism, consumerism, materialism, greed, scapegoating, and let's throw in conspiracy theories. And also promote duty, sacrifice, service, humility, and church attendance.

Am I understanding that correctly?

Try to anticipate where I might go with this. So many paths.

No that's not correct and I think you are making it up as you go.

I think that modern popular culture is an indicator, nothing more or less. I think Americans buy/ support/ like/ what appeals to them and the narcissism in media is getting the American dollar.

I don't know what we need to unite the nation, I certainly hope it's not a catastrophe. I think that good leadership is a step in the right direction, a Roosevelt or Washington, JFK or Reagan. I also think smaller scale leaders share much blame. Rather than tearing down others preachers, governors and mayors could encourage their constituents to serve, vote, help, assist.

quote:

Originally posted by Magine Enigam:

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:
Guaranteed if ME were around them as a group…he would label them as Christian Nationalists…even though they sacrificed hugely to quell Naziism and imperialism of 20th century.

That's something I never thought about.

I think it's strange that you make that claim.

For one thing Nazism was real and a threat. A lot of the stuff you believe is a threat is made up shit.

In fact, I wouldn't even be here if my father wasn't a survivor of WWII. He was a Christian, for sure, but NOTHING like the Christian Nationalists today.

When the men of the Lost Battalion were running the town Jacksboro in its hayday as an oilfield town…you would not have dared to drive a Volkswagen, Toyota, Nissan (Datsun back then), Honda, or even a Mecedes there and that did not change almost until the 1980’s.

The Greatest Generation were Nationalists to the core all with strong Judeo-Christian values and the majority — Christians.

Lane, you have your history wrong.

World War II started on September 1, 1939 when Germany invaded Poland. England declared a day later.

The United States didn’t join until over two years later with the attack on Pearl Harbor on December 7, 1941.

Roosevelt, seeing the danger of the Nazis, did everything in his power to get America involved. Gallop polls showed the majority, until Pearl Harbor, were against involvement. And do you know who the biggest isolationists were? Yup, you guessed it: It was the conservatives.

You entire premise shows an utter lack of scholarship.

I know/knew everything in your post and it is 100% correct.

But it also has exactly zero to do with any of my points — if anything it strengthens them.

The Greatest Generation was so nationalistic in loyalty and devotion to the USA they were reluctant to enter WWII until attacked. They were all about taking care of things at home.

But when attacked they again were so nationalistic that they dropped everything to kick-ass and they did. They also held a grudge against Germany but especially Japan for a longtime — furthering their nationalism.

The Greatest Generation were nationalist and composed of mostly Christians — simply fact.

And, they were largely responsible for quelling Naziism but especially imperial Japan.

In the hometown of the Lost Battalion of WWII where many of them lived through the 1980s…there legacy lasted a long time.

https://www.dictionary.com/e/p...tism-vs-nationalism/

Patriotism vs. Nationalism: What’s The Difference?
Published August 23, 2022

(excerpts)

However, fascist regimes have merged the fervor of nationalism with the notions of superiority, especially when it comes to ethnicity and religion.

It can also result in isolationism, or “the policy or doctrine of isolating one’s country from the affairs of other nations by declining to enter into alliances, foreign economic commitments, international agreement.”

The Greatest Generation were more than patriotic.

They were nationalists to the core.

They were loyal and devoted to the USA and…

…had a sense of national consciousness exalting one nation above all others and placing primary emphasis on promotion of its culture and interests as opposed to those of other nations or supranational groups

Nowadays, "more than patriotic" is where the trouble starts.

Your base line is flawed.

quote:

Originally posted by Magine Enigam:
Nowadays, "more than patriotic" is where the trouble starts.

True that. Becomes the basis for justifying and rationalizing actions that are actually the antithesis of patriotic.

Nationalism is patriotism taken to an evil extreme.

I find this self proclaimed Nationalist interesting.

These are the same group that, without any counter facts, will assert we cannot trust statements from our Government. They claim our Government is working us to our determent.

Now, a true Nationalist would not question the assertions of the State.

I also agree with the three above post.

I tend to be very suspicious of anyone who says, “I am a patriot.” I am very suspicious of anyone who says x,y,andz are “unAmerican.”

The Lost Battalion was from WWI; not WWII.

Yeah, Jewish people showed no bravery during WWII. I am sure no Muslim-American was drafted. If only we had not intergraded the Military WWII, we would concur the world.

There are Muslim-Americans buried in Arlington. You do not love America more than anyone else. You have no more claim to it than any other US Citizens.

Here's an example of patriotism gone amuck:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news...4cdd8469a27060b476ea

Christianity 'has devolved into a rabid tribe': Lauren Boebert bashed for praying for Biden's death
Story by Sarah K. Burris • Yesterday 9:04 PM

Speaking to a church audience, Rep. Lauren Boebert (R-CO) told the crowd to pray for Joe Biden: "May his days be few and another take his office.”

It isn't the first time she's made such a "prayer." She's been using the line "may his days be few" since 2022, when she spoke to the Charis Christian Center Family Camp Meeting in Colorado.

"THIS is the self-proclaimed party of Jesus Christ,"tweeted political commentator Lindy Li. "This is the self-appointed party of Christianity SHAME ON YOU! This is why church pews are emptying at a ferocious rate. Why increasing numbers of Americans now say they are religiously unaffiliated. Christianity in America has devolved into a rabid tribe of Talibangelicals and gun-totin Y’all Qaeda fanatics."

(see video in link)

Here's another example of White Nationalism at its finest. https://www.huffpost.com/entry...f82fe4b01a436396bc22 Try to get your nose out of Tucker's ass and you'll become acquainted with reality. "A Lack of Loyalty & Devotion" sounds like the making of a KKK pledge.

quote:

Originally posted by RolandtheHeadless:
Nationalism is patriotism taken to an evil extreme.

I don’t know about that.

Nationalism is the support of the nation. It is more an intellectual position.

Patriotism is the willingness to act on behalf of your nation.

Certainly both can be problematic if supported wrongly.

It was nationalism that determined the Nesei were a potential threat to US security as they were seen as possibly having dual allegiance (or being outright spies)- and there were some.

Patriotism allowed the internment and the interned Nesei to want to serve despite this.

Frankly, it was a racist event as the German Americans also had some with dual allegiance and some spies, yet we didn’t intern or question them as a whole…

So the events showed improper use of both patriotism and nationalism.

Heck, I remember in civics having a debate whether they were synonyms (patriotism and nationalism) and our WWII vet teacher laughingly said “nationalism is what the other country feels. Patriotism is what we feel…” then we had the debate. It ended up as above- intellectual vs acts.

Well, one thing for sure - the combo of patriotism, nationalism and religion is fraught.

Here's an opinion article from Fox News:

(Emotional appeal?)

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news...4437ddc736151b15cc1a

America 'unrecognizable' and on the brink of collapse, experts warn: 'Turning on our own legacy'
Opinion by Taylor Penley • 5h ago

quote:

Originally posted by LHeym500:
I find this self proclaimed Nationalist interesting.

These are the same group that, without any counter facts, will assert we cannot trust statements from our Government. They claim our Government is working us to our determent.

Now, a true Nationalist would not question the assertions of the State.

I also agree with the three above post.

I tend to be very suspicious of anyone who says, “I am a patriot.” I am very suspicious of anyone who says x,y,andz are “unAmerican.”

The Lost Battalion was from WWI; not WWII.

Yeah, Jewish people showed no bravery during WWII. I am sure no Muslim-American was drafted. If only we had not intergraded the Military WWII, we would concur the world.

There are Muslim-Americans buried in Arlington. You do not love America more than anyone else. You have no more claim to it than any other US Citizens.

Damn

Lost Battalion (Pacific, World War II)

Ever watched the Bridge Over the River Kwai?

Yes…there was one from WWI as well and also a European theater one in WWII.