quote:

Originally posted by medved:
just the start ...

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politi...lair-trump-1.7484477

Canada reconsidering F-35 purchase amid tensions with Washington, says minister
Payment for first 16 aircraft already made

Canada is actively looking at potential alternatives to the U.S.-built F-35 stealth fighter and will hold conversations with rival aircraft makers, Defence Minister Bill Blair said late Friday, just hours after being reappointed to the post as part of Prime Minister Mark Carney's new cabinet.

The remarks came one day after Portugal signalled it was planning to ditch its acquisition of the high-tech warplane.

The re-examination in this country is taking place amid the bruising political fight with the Trump administration over tariffs and threats from the American president to annex Canada by economic force.

There has been a groundswell of support among Canadians to kill the $19-billion purchase and find aircraft other than those manufactured and maintained in the United States.

After years of delay, the Liberal government signed a contract with the U.S. defence giant Lockheed Martin in June 2023 to purchase 88 F-35 jets.

The conversation about what's best for overall Canadian interests and the defence of the country is currently taking place with the military, Blair told CBC's Power & Politics.

"It was the fighter jet identified by our air force as the platform that they required, but we are also examining other alternatives — whether we need all of those fighter jets to be F-35," Blair told host David Cochrane.

Canada has already put down its money for the first 16 warplanes, which are due to be delivered early next year.

Canada looking for suppliers outside U.S.: Blair

Blair is suggesting that the first F-35s might be accepted and the remainder of the fleet would be made up of aircraft from European suppliers, such as the Swedish-built Saab Gripen, which finished second in the competition.

"The prime minister has asked me to go and examine those things and have discussions with other sources, particularly where there may be opportunities to assemble those fighter jets in Canada," Blair said.

Canada purchasing 16 new fighter jets out of current budget, minister says

F-35 fighter jets to cost Canada nearly $74 billion: PBO

That was an indirect reference to the Swedish proposal, which promised that assembly would take place in Canada and there would be a transfer of intellectual property, which would allow the aircraft to be maintained in this country.

Major maintenance, overhaul and software upgrades on the F-35 happen in the United States.

The notion of Canada flying a mixed fleet of fighter jets is something the air force has long resisted, even though it did so up until the 1980s when the current CF-18s were purchased. It would mean two different training regimes, separate hangars and infrastructure and a different supply chain — all of which defence planners have insisted for decades is too expensive.

Prior to Blair's statement, Lockheed Martin was asked about Portugal's planned exit from the program and whether it would have an impact on Canada.

"Lockheed Martin values our strong partnership and history with the Royal Canadian Air Force and looks forward to continuing that partnership into the future," Rebecca Miller, Lockheed Martin's director of global media relations, said in a statement.

"Foreign military sales are government-to-government transactions, so anything further will be best addressed by the U.S. or respective customer governments."

Trump's threats leave Canadian Afghan war veterans feeling angry and betrayed

Feds sign $8B preliminary contract for new navy destroyers while Parliament sidelined

Miller also addressed online misinformation that suggested the F-35s have a so-called "kill switch" that could turn off aircraft belonging to allies — or hobble their capabilities, should the U.S. government order the company to do so.

"As part of our government contracts, we deliver all system infrastructure and data required for all F-35 customers to sustain the aircraft," Miller said. "We remain committed to providing affordable and reliable sustainment services to our customers that enable them to complete their missions and come home safely."

There would be some form of contract penalty should Canada not proceed with the entire purchase. How much it would cost to get out of the contract remains unclear.

Billie Flynn, a retired lieutenant-colonel and former F-35 test pilot, says the threats made by Trump have shaken confidence in the U.S. defence sector.

"I believe Canada has to adopt a transactional view that this is a contract that will go forward — or at the risk — of the trust that is always behind every purchase of American arms," Flynn said.

Another consideration in any potential full or partial withdrawal from the F-35 contract is that Canadian aerospace companies are part of the fighter jet's supply chain — something that contributed $1.3 billion to this country's economy between 1997 and 2021.

quote:

Originally posted by Tumbleweed:
It makes perfect sense to me. The Americans traditionally design and build armaments for Offense.

Now that our longstanding ally has abruptly and inexplicably become our enemy, it’s imperative that Canada arms for Defense against a geographically nearby threat.

The Saab is well suited to that role. Fuck Trump - if it’s a war he wants, it’s a war he shall get, on every front.

quote:

Originally posted by Bill Leeper:
Canada would be wise to cut her losses and ditch the F-35 program. Bill.

quote:

Originally posted by Bill Leeper:
Canada would be wise to cut her losses and ditch the F-35 program. Bill.

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

quote:

Originally posted by Tumbleweed:
It makes perfect sense to me. The Americans traditionally design and build armaments for Offense.

Now that our longstanding ally has abruptly and inexplicably become our enemy, it’s imperative that Canada arms for Defense against a geographically nearby threat.

The Saab is well suited to that role. Fuck Trump - if it’s a war he wants, it’s a war he shall get, on every front.

America traditionally builds armaments for losers!

Vietnam?
Iraq?
Afghanistan?

quote:

Originally posted by Jefffive:

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

quote:

Originally posted by Tumbleweed:
It makes perfect sense to me. The Americans traditionally design and build armaments for Offense.

Now that our longstanding ally has abruptly and inexplicably become our enemy, it’s imperative that Canada arms for Defense against a geographically nearby threat.

The Saab is well suited to that role. Fuck Trump - if it’s a war he wants, it’s a war he shall get, on every front.

America traditionally builds armaments for losers!

Vietnam?
Iraq?
Afghanistan?

UAE sure has bought a lot of them...

quote:

Originally posted by Scott King:
Great news I think, kick my Military Industrial Complex square in the nuts.
I have no interest in being a global supplier of war and death.
I'm sure Sweden's planes are plenty capable.

quote:

Originally posted by Scott King:
Great news I think, kick my Military Industrial Complex square in the nuts.
I have no interest in being a global supplier of war and death.
I'm sure Sweden's planes are plenty capable.

quote:

Originally posted by Jefffive:

quote:

Originally posted by Scott King:
Great news I think, kick my Military Industrial Complex square in the nuts.
I have no interest in being a global supplier of war and death.
I'm sure Sweden's planes are plenty capable.

Foreign military sales keep production lines active so the U.S. military has near-immediate access to additional or replacement equipment when needed.

If nobody but us is buying F-35s either they go out of production or we pay vastly more for them in the form of contracts to keep idle factories on standby.

quote:

Originally posted by Cougarz:
Politics aside I wonder if they also looked into the Eurofighter? Unless the Swedes are just making them a more attractive deal.

quote:

Originally posted by medved:

quote:

Originally posted by Cougarz:
Politics aside I wonder if they also looked into the Eurofighter? Unless the Swedes are just making them a more attractive deal.

well the eurofighter and the gripen have itar components ask how the colombians feel about the ge engines not approved by usa to go to them ...

unfortunately today our only itar free choice is the rafale which will add delays as dassault is already producing full throttle ...

quote:

Originally posted by fulvio:


Easy way of cutting of one's nose to spite their face.

quote:

Originally posted by fulvio:

quote:

Originally posted by medved:

quote:

Originally posted by Cougarz:
Politics aside I wonder if they also looked into the Eurofighter? Unless the Swedes are just making them a more attractive deal.

well the eurofighter and the gripen have itar components ask how the colombians feel about the ge engines not approved by usa to go to them ...

unfortunately today our only itar free choice is the rafale which will add delays as dassault is already producing full throttle ...

Canada is welcome to consider the Chinese J-20 as an alternative to the F-35 which it could probably get at a price of 2 for 1.

Easy way of cutting of one's nose to spite their face.