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| One of Us |
By Ken Burns airs tonight 10/16/23 on PBS I think it's at least 2-part. It isn't a nature documentary. ************* Real conservatives aren't radicalized. Thus "radicalized conservative" is an oxymoron. Yet there are many radicalized republicans. "When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." - Sinclair Lewis Per my far-right friend: "reality sucks" D.J. Trump aka Trumpism's Founding Farter, aka Farter Martyr. Qualifications: flatulence - mental, oral and anal. | ||
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My wife is engrossed in it now. | |||
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Much of the history there I already knew, but the show put the timelines into perspective. The proportions and significance of it are hard to imagine. Even driving across the west nowadays gives merely a clue of the time, space and place where it all happened - in such a short period of time. And we think things are changing fast now. ************* Real conservatives aren't radicalized. Thus "radicalized conservative" is an oxymoron. Yet there are many radicalized republicans. "When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." - Sinclair Lewis Per my far-right friend: "reality sucks" D.J. Trump aka Trumpism's Founding Farter, aka Farter Martyr. Qualifications: flatulence - mental, oral and anal. | |||
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One of Us |
Is the film available on any kind of pay-per-view? I would like to watch it. I looked on Netflix…not there. I would like to see if it outlines the truth identified by forensic science as to what actually reduced the vast herds. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J. Lane Easter, DVM A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991. | |||
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| One of Us |
It wasn't bullets? -Every damn thing is your own fault if you are any good. | |||
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| one of us |
The records of the number of hides shipped seems to indicate that it was, indeed, bullets! There literally millions of hides shipped each year, through the 1870's. It is common for modern day Americans to try and downplay our culpability, blaming disease or environmental factors, but we did almost wipe out an entire species. There may well have been some diseases which hit them as well but it was mostly lead poisoning. A pretty dark chapter in the history books; especially if viewed from a conservationist's point of view. Regards, Bill | |||
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Not Netflix, it's on PBS. TomP Our country, right or wrong. When right, to be kept right, when wrong to be put right. Carl Schurz (1829 - 1906) | |||
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| One of Us |
From the 1300's there was a 500 yr wet/cool streak in the great plains. The bison had it made. The mid 1800 turned to drought conditions. Hunting, ranching/farming, diseases, both natural and introduced from cattle, with the drought, all played a role. | |||
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No sir…they only accounted for the last 10-20%. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J. Lane Easter, DVM A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991. | |||
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Administrator |
Isn't PBS free in Texas? It is worth finding and watching. It is available on your local pbs homepage (at least it is in the Boston area). Don | |||
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Yessir. But it is never available when I am free to watch. I will record it. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J. Lane Easter, DVM A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991. | |||
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| one of us |
I think that's revisionism, Lane. I always wanted to believe we, Europeans, were not responsible, and would love to see irrefutable evidence to that effect. Regards, Bill. | |||
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I idly wonder if the introduction of brucellosis from ranchers' cattle had any effect... TomP Our country, right or wrong. When right, to be kept right, when wrong to be put right. Carl Schurz (1829 - 1906) | |||
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| one of us |
PBS is free in Texas, but only if you don't have the MAGA stick up your ass, and won't watch it. I watched it last night. Wonderful! Ken Burns deserves an Oscar and every other award available to civilians. He shows America the way it was and is. | |||
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| One of Us |
It was still the Europeans fault but it was not from bullets and powder. The study was published out of Dr. Jim Derr’s department at Texas A&M in early 2000s. They established estimated populations from DNA analysis and documented historical accounts pre-introduction of European cattle. They then used historical documents to estimate the maximum amount of powder and shot that could have been used to kill bison. They only could document enough to kill off 10% of original numbers. They allowed for doubling the number for indisputable error. The max that could have been killed with bullets they document…was 20% but more likely 10%. They then, using Ted Turner’s herd, did a retrospective genetic analysis and to come up with actual reasons for the initial drastic herd decline and boiled it down to tuberculosis and brucellosis. Thus when the buffalo hunting error began…the herds had already been reduced by 80+% of original. Hunters only shot out the last 10-20%. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J. Lane Easter, DVM A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991. | |||
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The numbers given of the herds were anything from 50-100 million. We know they have a reproductive rate of 10% of the herd size each year, from parks service data. If the herd was 50 million, the numbers shot and robes shipped would not be the reproduction numbers each year. | |||
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| One of Us |
Apparently part 2 is on tonight. It starts at 8 pm here on PBS. ************* Real conservatives aren't radicalized. Thus "radicalized conservative" is an oxymoron. Yet there are many radicalized republicans. "When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." - Sinclair Lewis Per my far-right friend: "reality sucks" D.J. Trump aka Trumpism's Founding Farter, aka Farter Martyr. Qualifications: flatulence - mental, oral and anal. | |||
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When PBS puts it up for streaming, I will watch it. Unfortunately I tend to get home after this would start. | |||
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One of Us |
You can stream it for free at a time of your choosing on the PBS app. . | |||
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| One of Us |
There is are parallel wildlife tragedies: https://www.msn.com/en-us/news...5aa10f66a3a907&ei=71 Scientists Examine DNA of Bones Found at a Beach And Make An Important Discovery Story by Olawale Ogunjimi • 5h ************* Real conservatives aren't radicalized. Thus "radicalized conservative" is an oxymoron. Yet there are many radicalized republicans. "When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." - Sinclair Lewis Per my far-right friend: "reality sucks" D.J. Trump aka Trumpism's Founding Farter, aka Farter Martyr. Qualifications: flatulence - mental, oral and anal. | |||
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https://www.msn.com/en-us/weat...0a75ed9a655f98&ei=64 Scientists Reveal How 10 Billion Snow Crabs Suddenly Vanished Story by Anna Skinner • 1h ************* Real conservatives aren't radicalized. Thus "radicalized conservative" is an oxymoron. Yet there are many radicalized republicans. "When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." - Sinclair Lewis Per my far-right friend: "reality sucks" D.J. Trump aka Trumpism's Founding Farter, aka Farter Martyr. Qualifications: flatulence - mental, oral and anal. | |||
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| One of Us |
I watched the first part last night. A little too heavy on the noble savage rhetoric, and reading between the lines while the hunters had impact, it was more habitat issues. Railroads, fencing, farming, and while they minimized it they did mention disease playing a role as well. I suspect that the introduction of the horse was a bigger impact than the native (which is a misnomer- they also very obliquely mention that the “native” people exterminated mammoths, mastodons, giant ground sloths, and greater bears when they came to North America) culturists want to admit… Nevertheless it’s interesting. | |||
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| One of Us |
Well the last 10-20 percent was still a lot of unregulated Buffalo Killing. I agree when the plains tribes got horses the the pressure from those tribes/nations had to increase. The fact is we could not have the culture, the cities, and beef industry we have today if bison were roaming in the herds encouraged by US Citizens pre, and during Western Expansion. | |||
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| One of Us |
All true. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J. Lane Easter, DVM A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991. | |||
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+1 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J. Lane Easter, DVM A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991. | |||
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I meant ENCOUNTERED not encouraged. | |||
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| One of Us |
And like the passenger pigeon, hunting, in an uncontrolled market fashion while it certainly expedited the outcome, probably (in my opinion) would have made no terminal difference. The railroads, farming, fencing, and westward expansion of the population (per the program there were what 125-250,000 natives on the plains total?) compared to millions? The passenger pigeon was exterminated by cutting down its habitat past the point it could deal with. One can say the same of the bison. Even absent disease (which would never have happened given cattle) the structural changes of society would have hemmed in and killed off the bison unless we took action- like happened. It may have been better, or worse if it had occurred by habitat changes. I’m not defending the indiscriminate slaughter of the herds, but rather just saying that guys with rifles were a symptom, not the disease. | |||
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| One of Us |
I think that is a pretty fair statement. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J. Lane Easter, DVM A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991. | |||
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