The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Guns, Politics, Gunsmithing & Reloading The Political Forum Best articulation of Hamas and PalestineGo | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
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Said it better than I have been trying. Israel is not going anywhere, and Hamas/Plastine to exists must accept this or be destroyed by their own. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=KP-CRXROorw | ||
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| One of Us |
Netanyahu has supported Hamas because, like him, they oppose a two-state solution. If he's now forced to destroy them after essentially allowing them to commit the atrocities the pressure to finally come to an agreement with a united Palestinian people will destroy him. "If you’re innocent why are you taking the Fifth Amendment?”- Donald Trump | |||
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| One of Us |
so exactly where is Palestine? I'm not seeing it on no map. | |||
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| One of Us |
You're simply too stupid to try to explain it to, like trying to teach calculus to a four-year-old. "If you’re innocent why are you taking the Fifth Amendment?”- Donald Trump | |||
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| One of Us |
Jeffie, Your level of arrogance is amazing. I think Lamar's question was rhetorical, and he raises a good point. Your failure to recognize the point means I really can't take you or anything you say seriously. | |||
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It will be tough, will probably seem hopeless at times, but I'll try to struggle along without your esteem. "If you’re innocent why are you taking the Fifth Amendment?”- Donald Trump | |||
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One of Us |
Seems amazing to me that any reasonable adult could sympathize with the Palestinians that go along with mortars hidden in classrooms, other war materiel cashed in hospitals tunnels, safe havens and refuges for Hamas woven into Palestinians civilian infrastructure. Hamas and Islamic Terrorism isn't a fraction of the Palestinians, it's their entirety. The Palestinians need to be erased "From the River to the Sea". | |||
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The voice on sanity.^^^ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J. Lane Easter, DVM A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991. | |||
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The voice of sanity is that the Palestinians need to be erased? Wow. Scott? You don't really think that. The terrorists that indiscriminately kill innocent men, women and children need to be erased. -Every damn thing is your own fault if you are any good. | |||
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What “I” believe Scott is saying and as it appears to me is that they are one in the same. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J. Lane Easter, DVM A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991. | |||
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| One of Us |
Can I sympathize with the idea of the Palestinian people wanting to have self determination? Of course. Can I sympathize with a group of people who use terrorist tactics to try and gain support? No. The folks using terrorism deserve to be eradicated. They sometimes get what they deserve when they pick the wrong fight. Unfortunately for the Palestinians, they allowed these folks to be seen as their choice of leaders, and thus they pay the price of the eradication as the subhumans use them as human shields. That only works to a point. No one really rightfully has an objection when it was German or Japanese human shields in WWII. Heck we (the western allies) killed lots of our own innocent people when they were used as human shields by the Nazis. | |||
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| One of Us |
Palestine has been offered their state in peace many times over. They not only reject it, but choose barbarism in response. The existence of Israel is not negotiable. | |||
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It may have been a mistake for the western world to push notions of geographical nationhood onto a part of our world that functioned without it for centuries, post WWI. TomP Our country, right or wrong. When right, to be kept right, when wrong to be put right. Carl Schurz (1829 - 1906) | |||
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No I don't, you're right of course. But I do think the Palestinians are a larger portion and support for Hamas and Islamic terrorism than some try to convince us. I do think the Islamic terrorists do not fear the civilized, sanitized western response to their terrorism. When we firebombed Germany, we weren't concerned with civilian casualties, we were concerned with winning and we did. Thru 4 administrations and 20 years of war in Afghanistan we failed to beat, win, destroy Islamic terrorism. They beat us, Republicans and Democrats, (Americans,) and today the Taliban rules supreme. I think we should try something different. | |||
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| One of Us |
I think more correctly they have been offered a state in return for acknowledging that Israel has a right to exist. That it has been refused shows the hubris that the Palestinians somehow think that they can win this fight. They seem to be under the delusion that they are fighting a foreign occupier who will get fed up and go home (which is essentially what happened in Afghanistan. Unfortunately for Hamas et al, they don’t get that to the Israelis its win or be wiped out. Until both sides agree that they need peace, the fight will go on. In my mind, the Brits have given the terrorists the fuel for their behaviors. That they acquiesced to the formation of Israel in its current form showed the Palestinians that they could be pressured into giving in to terrorist tactics. Yes, it’s a bit more complex than that but that is what folks saw, and it continued in the decolonization of the empire. Lots of places saw asymmetric warfare succeed in getting the colonial powers out and them in.
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| One of Us |
The Palestinian people as a whole want a Palestinian State that can co-exist peacefully with Israel. The Palestinian Authority in charge of the West Bank wants this. Hamas, and Netanyahu, oppose a two-state solution, which is why Netanyahu facilitated the transfer of millions in cash to Hamas from Qatar. He bragged about preventing the two-state solution from moving forward a few days ago in a press conference. If genocide is the answer you are asking the wrong question. "If you’re innocent why are you taking the Fifth Amendment?”- Donald Trump | |||
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Israel's only backers are The USA and the West and time and time again the West has been rolled over by Islamic terrorism. They know it, it's easy to demonstrate. The West elects Islam to public office, encourages and even champions Islamic immigration and of course is regularly defeated in war with Islam. It's not just us, it's all the Infidels, we are all regularly pushed back/ pushed over. Palestine/ Hamas has every reason to think they can cleanse the Jews from the river to the sea. Like I said above, maybe we should try something different. | |||
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There are millions of peaceful, hardworking practitioners of Islam who are citizens of the United States. Those citizens are entitled to the full good faith, rights, and legal status that comes w being a U.S. citizen. Rep. Tlaib so has those rights. She can endure the consequences of her actions such as her censure by her colleagues, rejection in the Market Place of ideas, and ultimately in electoral challenge. Barring an act of crime and subject to expulsion by the House, that is the way it should be. What I have seen has been broad based rejection of the justifications for the barbarism preached in Israel by Hamas, and to a certain extent Palestine as a whole who refused peace for this regime. Islam in the Middle East particularly needs both a cultural revolution that will have to come from within like the Young Turks were. Islamic Nation states as part of revolution are going to have to reject and separate out religion from civil government and embrace a secular model. This will come w violence because this religious fervor is a path to maintain political power. Israel with almost no help from U.S. has defended itself no less than 3 times from Islamic Nation states wars of annulation. It does not matter anymore at the close of WWII territory was carved out for Israel displacing Muslims in the region. Those people have had multiple opportunities for a peaceful state and rejected them. Israel has advanced only in the face of wars of aggression, Israel won. It is long past time for Palestine to decry this mentality of a state to the river to the sea. Palestine can, could, and should live in peace, or if Palestine refuses as it has always done to this point to accept Israel engaging in barbarism to war, war will be visited upon Palestine. The choice, the one who can move the Dominoes is Palestine. It has been over 20 years since Israel completely left Gaza. The Bush Administration insisted that the vote be had that saw Hamas elected. The issue is Palestine and its Islamic nation state supporters have time and again rejected peace that allowed Hamas to be viable. Enough is enough. Israel has every right within the bounds of international law to ensure its security. Does a long term occupation of Gaza serve Israel’s security interest? I do not believe so. Israel has also said it does not. That is good enough for me. As Mahan touched on, I believe the analogy to the Ireland situation is very strong. Jefffive the Palestinian people as a whole have been offered a peaceful, co-existing state that could look like Dubai. They have chose to reject it. In the mindset that chose those rejections they birthed Hamas. They are no more innocent nor guilty than those who let the Nazis come to power in Germany. Hama does not exists in a vacuum. It exists in decades of Palestinians saying no and saying, “ From the River to the Sea.” | |||
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| Administrator |
More bullshit brain washing the ignorant masses. Palestine has been in existence for thousands of years. And unless the Palestinians are given normal rights on their own homeland, peace will never happen! Zionism to Jews is as ISIS is to Muslims! Just as many Muslims are against ISIS, many Jews are against Zionism. Trouble is they are being silenced! It is so sickening to see innocent people people, on both sides, being hurt by a horrible religious ideology! America has always been subservient to Zionism. Bloody hell, some idiot in Congress wants to make Israel into another state of America! | |||
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| One of Us |
It is not true that Israel hasn't had help from the U.S., and Hamas no more represents the will of the Palestinian people than MAGAts represent the will of the American people. "If you’re innocent why are you taking the Fifth Amendment?”- Donald Trump | |||
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| One of Us |
Israel has had a lot of protection from the US. Ranging from money, to weapons, to diplomatic cover. How often have we exercised our UN Security Council veto on items that were more about Israeli security than our own? I’m not saying we are wrong, but we have supported them heavily, and US citizens are probably the largest single external financial supporter of Israel. | |||
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| One of Us |
I cannot argue that. We have never sent one US solider to Israel to win any of those 3 wars. | |||
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| One of Us |
We have sent entire fucking fleets, and carrier strike groups, to limit the opposition Israel faced. That's "help". "If you’re innocent why are you taking the Fifth Amendment?”- Donald Trump | |||
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| One of Us |
We have never put troops on the ground in 3 wars by Islamic Nation States in support of Israel. Israel won those wars on their own. | |||
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| One of Us |
You suddenly just want to argue about everything. No, we haven't put troops on the ground in Israel's wars, for very damned good reasons. "If you’re innocent why are you taking the Fifth Amendment?”- Donald Trump | |||
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I want what I say to be presented accurately. You are the one trying to play close enough. Those things cannot exist in close enough. I said no US shoulders have been used to fight wars brought upon Israel. That is correct. Israel has earned every inch they occupy. They should not give back an inch. They gave Palestine the West Bank. Palestine has been handed long before Hamas a peaceful state in co-existence. Palestine has rejected it. Palestine in doing so chose Hamas as a means to remove Israel. They get very little sympathy from me. As Bill Maher points out the very Palestinian mentality that they be a state from the River to the Sea is why we are here. Palestine as group , like Germans with Nazis, bear responsibility. | |||
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You're absolutely correct, no U.S. shoulders have been used; it's possible some of the over $300 billion in foreign aid, primarily military, representing 10% of all foreign aid the U.S. has awarded since WWII has been "helpful". "If you’re innocent why are you taking the Fifth Amendment?”- Donald Trump | |||
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| One of Us |
https://www.cnn.com/2023/10/16...on-israel/index.html In addition to the Navy and Marines hovering offshore, apparently the USA does share a joint base in Israel. How willfully ignorant and arrogant do you have to be to insist America doesn't actively participate in direct military actions against Israel's enemies? | |||
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https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wik...s_military_relations The stockpile mentioned in Wikipedia is particularly interesting.  But right ! No shoulders! How obtuse. | |||
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I think L Heym is just on the rag this week, he wants to argue about every comma. I'm sure he'll get over it. "If you’re innocent why are you taking the Fifth Amendment?”- Donald Trump | |||
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One of Us |
“Circling back”  Two Seals have apparently lost their lives in an action that is not directly in defense of Israel, but in the conflict surrounding it. Formerly "Nganga" | |||
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| One of Us |
Palestinians, or any of their brethren over in the Mid-East, have no right to their river to the sea BS. It's a wash, and I know which side is the problem. | |||
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| One of Us |
plenty of open sand where the palestinians could land. I see a couple of good spots straight to the east of them that Iran ain't using. when this is all over they might as well do like everyone else did over the last 3 thousand years,,, and find a clean flat Butte to start with. they could even leave the rubble to the Israeli's to clean up. problem solved. | |||
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| Administrator |
Then why don’t you lot go home where you came from? And leave it to the Red Indians?? Who you ethnicity cleansed?? | |||
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We don’t go home where we came from because you and your Arab brothers keep asking us to save your asses. Obviously you can’t protect yourselves . It must be embarrassing . Hire Wagner group to keep the Houthis from rocketing your capital. I bet they would even sell you some Sukoi 35’s to replace the F 15 and 16’s that are protecting Dubai. But then, I hear there is a vacuum at the top of Wagner. Give Putin a direct call and tell him you’ll trade an oligarch yacht for a few S400 anti air missile batteries..   Vote Trump- Putin’s best friend… To quote a former AND CURRENT Trumpiteer - DUMP TRUMP | |||
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| One of Us |
Getting rid of Netanyahu AND Hamas does not guarantee peace between Palestinians and Israel but not getting rid of either guarantees there will be none. "If you’re innocent why are you taking the Fifth Amendment?”- Donald Trump | |||
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Including the USA. | |||
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| One of Us |
I agree, Saeed. The US should withdraw from the Middle East. Let Las Vegas lay odds on how long the peaceful monarchies in the region survive. | |||
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The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Guns, Politics, Gunsmithing & Reloading The Political Forum Best articulation of Hamas and Palestine
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