NATO and the west did have a role in trying to wean nations away from being Russian puppets.

Russia has a longstanding case of international paranoia. The fact that we would support someone for mutual benefit made Ukraine less dependent on Russia. That was seen as a threat by Russia. They want a buffer zone between themselves and other nations. Understandable, but it doesn’t make their neighbor finding someone else a better ally (in their own best interests) a reason to invade them.

Heck, Saeed, you keep pointing out how inept we are at winning a war, what is it that Russia would need to be scared of?

quote:

Originally posted by nute:

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

quote:

Originally posted by shankspony:
Yeah but we are talking about preventing a war where europe and america have to get physically involved aren't we. What about Russias stupid war right now? How much benefit too you is an emboldened russia and Iran?
I mean what have you guys achieved fighting the Houthis? the shipping lanes are really safe now aren't they.

America and NATO are the cause of this war!

Yeah, made Russia invade its neighbour...

This buffer zone thing is often bought out as some sort of justification. If Russia was that concerned about it they now have an additional 800+ mile boarder with a NATO state as a direct result of their actions. A NATO state with a very much more capable military than Ukraine at the point of invasion.

It wasn't a totally unexpected result that Finland decides to join NATO as a result of the Russian invasion of Ukraine. Putin obviously wasn't that concerned about the whole buffer zone thing ... not sure I buy it.

quote:

Originally posted by crbutler:
We built the Panama Canal principally for defensive reasons. Teddy Roosevelt was a big naval power advocate. We were developing our navy at the time, and our capability to move ships between the Atlantic and pacific oceans was critical (given we had to cover two oceans).

While the economic benefits were certainly there, it was much more defensive- and very much so that we had better be in control of it rather than one of the colonial powers.

It was not built as some benevolent gesture to the world.

quote:

Originally posted by Scott King:
Again and as always, not advocating Isolationism.


Nute stipulated that the world turned to the west because of the war. No, not true, the world was already turning west and at least away from Europe and Asia. Regardless the outcome, the world would have and still does turn to the West.

We didn't build the Panama Canal because, "golly, maybe someday there'll be a use for it!" We built the Canal in 1900 because the West had to have it.

The Model T assembly line doomed our 20th century enemies along with our ports, rail and unlimited resources. The world turned west.

The exact issue russias navy faces... 3 navies.

Well, technically we have several more.

Arctic, Barents, pacific, Caribbean, Atlantic all touch the US states.

Yes, Russia has long desired a warm water port that is not restricted by other nations…

Vladivostok is not good because anything there needs to travel the trans Siberia railroad to get to Russia’s population centers.

They lost the Russo Japanese war due to this in part.

quote:

Originally posted by Scott King:
Ok, so if I understand correctly:
Russia who has no exports outside natural resources because they've had no technology advances since their last Nazi engineer died is now getting and using armaments from, "The Hermit Kingdom" which they formed 100 years ago.
Additionally, Iran, who's second export outside of oil is sand is arming Russia despite their having no manufacturing or exporting of manufacturing.

And this is scary?

And Shanks wants NATO, (Me, not him,) to send more guns?

This is impressive!

Evidently according too the white house. NZ just helped bomb Yemen.....
Scott you can thank us later.

quote:

Originally posted by shankspony:

quote:

Originally posted by Scott King:
Ok, so if I understand correctly:
Russia who has no exports outside natural resources because they've had no technology advances since their last Nazi engineer died is now getting and using armaments from, "The Hermit Kingdom" which they formed 100 years ago.
Additionally, Iran, who's second export outside of oil is sand is arming Russia despite their having no manufacturing or exporting of manufacturing.

And this is scary?

And Shanks wants NATO, (Me, not him,) to send more guns?

This is impressive!

Evidently according too the white house. NZ just helped bomb Yemen.....
Scott you can thank us later.

I love it!

But gee, I just can't guess where or next terrorist attack will come from. And I do think we should have hit em, but my guess from previous experience is we didn't hit em near hard enough, now they're just mad.

If they could have, they would have all ready. Its Iran you have to watch. They are behind all this. Very threatened by the possibility of the Abraham accords.

quote:

Originally posted by shankspony:
If they could have, they would have all ready. Its Iran you have to watch. They are behind all this. Very threatened by the possibility of the Abraham accords.

I'll tell you what I like about the Iranians, they have buildings and asphalt parking lots. The Iranian generals wear nice uniforms and have assigned parking spaces in the asphalt parking lots.

Set the GPS, push the go button on the drone. Wait for impact hoping all the while he didn't delay by stopping off at Starbucks on the way in.

Which is probably why they get illiterate goat herders to poke the bear for them.
They do value their own skin.

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