I found myself talking about this the other day, and heres Mr peterson saying it so elegantly.

Why are his opinions so controversial? They are just plain common sense.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nFtKQofw0As

quote:

Originally posted by shankspony:
I found myself talking about this the other day, and heres Mr peterson saying it so elegantly.

Why are his opinions so controversial? They are just plain common sense.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nFtKQofw0As

They are pure common sense. Very simple, and usually the simple answer is the correct answer.

But "equality of outcome" is an easy sell to those without motivation or fortitude....

Did you notice the part about the fear of the future? That's that control boogeyman. No sense in trying because the world is gonna end....sick cop out? Or excuse?

Its amazing what sectors of our society have done to the upcoming generations. In the "old days" we were taught to face our fears and conquer them.

As it should be. I was raised that way and I raised my children that way.

When I was in grade school the boogeyman was "A new ice age". Then later they changed it to " global warming"......that didn't pan out so "climate change"....

" They" have to keep people divided and scared to gain more power....

A lot of people do fall for it.

quote:

Originally posted by shankspony:
Its amazing what sectors of our society have done to the upcoming generations. In the "old days" we were taught to face our fears and conquer them.

A funny analogy: I died once when I was 5, my mom made me get up and walk it off. The next person says: Heck, my mom made me walk off death a dozen times!

Yes, it does seem toughness has been phased out and replaced with classroom litter boxes and gender dysphoria. This has not made better people.

quote:

Originally posted by shankspony:
Its amazing what sectors of our society have done to the upcoming generations. In the "old days" we were taught to face our fears and conquer them.

But those that can't? Those that can't conquer their fears? Do we ignore them, let them fail, suffer and die?

Of course I agree with my friend Jtex and manage my family similarly. Others do not raise their family in Jtex's wisdom, in some cases my neighbors and fellow citizens do not. What of their offspring?

As I've said many times I believe we fail our brothers and neighbors, we fail ourselves really when we allow our fellow citizens to be defeated, be it self inflicted or not.

quote:

Originally posted by Scott King:

quote:

Originally posted by shankspony:
Its amazing what sectors of our society have done to the upcoming generations. In the "old days" we were taught to face our fears and conquer them.

But those that can't? Those that can't conquer their fears? Do we ignore them, let them fail, suffer and die?

Feed them (red beans and rice), clothe them (plenty of fine discarded clothing in the 21st), and give them shelter (I could be for Bill Walton’s camp idea). Don’t try to guarantee them prosperity — that can only come from within.

Of course I agree with my friend Jtex and manage my family similarly. Others do not raise their family in Jtex's wisdom, in some cases my neighbors and fellow citizens do not. What of their offspring?

As I've said many times I believe we fail our brothers and neighbors, we fail ourselves really when we allow our fellow citizens to be defeated, be it self inflicted or not.

I too am in full agreement with JTEX, Shanks, and Scott too.

quote:

Originally posted by Scott King:

quote:

Originally posted by shankspony:
Its amazing what sectors of our society have done to the upcoming generations. In the "old days" we were taught to face our fears and conquer them.

But those that can't? Those that can't conquer their fears? Do we ignore them, let them fail, suffer and die?

Of course I agree with my friend Jtex and manage my family similarly. Others do not raise their family in Jtex's wisdom, in some cases my neighbors and fellow citizens do not. What of their offspring?

As I've said many times I believe we fail our brothers and neighbors, we fail ourselves really when we allow our fellow citizens to be defeated, be it self inflicted or not.

If I read you right,
I think we are at the stage where we are being told to accept unreasonable fears. Fear of different opinions, need of safe spaces in environments that should not need such. We are not building resilience.
But thats different to those that rely have a problem and society should try to care for or find a place for those that need help.
We are building a rod for our back and creating illness which is allowing others to fail by tolerating these new concepts.

"The Game of dividing people up by their group identity ends up in disaster, no matter who plays it."

This is a good video, for a change. But it's easy to find a goofy liberal.

This guy, Jordon Peterson, is very interesting, IMO.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jordan_Peterson

(just a snippet)

In a 2017 interview, Peterson was asked if he was a Christian; he responded, "I suppose the most straight-forward answer to that is yes."[191][j] When asked if he believes in God, Peterson responded: "I think the proper response to that is no, but I'm afraid He might exist."[55]

https://www.google.com/search?...sclient=gws-wiz-serp



===============================================

There is dissenting opinion:

https://www.theguardian.com/sc...o-hit-a-hornets-nest

How dangerous is Jordan B Peterson, the rightwing professor who 'hit a hornets' nest'?

In his case, what is right wing? He's talked many times about how he certainly doesn't act right wing in his personnel life. Its just that the group hes identified with in his concern and compassion for are developing males. And so he gets that label.
On the religious front Im paraphrasing from memory, but If i have it right he feels that the religious code or morals have developed over thousands of years alongside humanity and are very fine guides in how to develop a mature socialised human.

Some of his basics are really simple lessons in development. Clean your room, stand up straight. I was stuck by something yesterday when watching an older movie. The young adults in it referred to the adults as MR/Mrs/ Sir.

Thats how i grew up and I remember feeling slightly uncomfortable the first times family friends told me you are old enough now to call me by my first name.
It would be 30 years since I have had a child call me Mr. You dont hear it anymore and Its doesn't really worry me. But as an example I wonder if this is all part of the slow decline in socialisation and respect that is needed to make a healthy adult.

Im sticking up another video of him here. So one thing that I think the last article touches on is his followers. This is actually a good conversation, but the title is clickbait designed to attract people with a certain opinion. Its not needed. Nothing in his speech is that controversial and its a university debate where people are open to discussion. He actually partially agrees with the "protagonist" and answers with no malice and some self deprecating humour.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a7ZwnnzVwrg

quote:

Originally posted by Scott King:

quote:

Originally posted by shankspony:
Its amazing what sectors of our society have done to the upcoming generations. In the "old days" we were taught to face our fears and conquer them.

But those that can't? Those that can't conquer their fears? Do we ignore them, let them fail, suffer and die?

Of course I agree with my friend Jtex and manage my family similarly. Others do not raise their family in Jtex's wisdom, in some cases my neighbors and fellow citizens do not. What of their offspring?

As I've said many times I believe we fail our brothers and neighbors, we fail ourselves really when we allow our fellow citizens to be defeated, be it self inflicted or not.

Empathy, Scott, with support of family and friends....and for some...faith on a creator.

Failure is something that is unavoidable, if you try enough things you are gonna fail at some, maybe most.....we learned that early...we didn't have participation trophies.... We don't want any to suffer and die. But one must learn early how to overcome and bounce back from failure. The real world is not easy, especially for those that lack experience.

Many of those cases of others....we can't help, they have to learn through experience, the ones that are smart enough to have friends learn from them...some never do. I really look at those types of parents as semi child abusers..... Its sad for me to see.

I don't know what to do with them, how to even let them know they need help.

quote:

Originally posted by shankspony:

quote:

Originally posted by Scott King:

quote:

Originally posted by shankspony:
Its amazing what sectors of our society have done to the upcoming generations. In the "old days" we were taught to face our fears and conquer them.

But those that can't? Those that can't conquer their fears? Do we ignore them, let them fail, suffer and die?

Of course I agree with my friend Jtex and manage my family similarly. Others do not raise their family in Jtex's wisdom, in some cases my neighbors and fellow citizens do not. What of their offspring?

As I've said many times I believe we fail our brothers and neighbors, we fail ourselves really when we allow our fellow citizens to be defeated, be it self inflicted or not.

If I read you right,
I think we are at the stage where we are being told to accept unreasonable fears. Fear of different opinions, need of safe spaces in environments that should not need such. We are not building resilience.
But thats different to those that rely have a problem and society should try to care for or find a place for those that need help.
We are building a rod for our back and creating illness which is allowing others to fail by tolerating these new concepts.

Agreed! With both precepts.

.

After listing to the first video you posted in this thread, I did some quick research, about him obviously, but also on related topics.

One of those topics was the subject of your second post.

Another was about your statement: "the religious code or morals have developed over thousands of years alongside humanity"

I researched the question of whether Neanderthals had religious or moral codes, whether it is biological or social structured, etc.

I found a few answers, but chose to not share them herein.

Anyway, I like this discussion.

Well we know they buried their dead and placed artefacts of some meaning with the bodies, We know they were capable of creating intricate tools, and we know they painted scenes and symbols on the walls of their caves.
So its definitely a high likelihood that they had religion/cultural behaviours of some sort.
And given that we are branches of the same evolutionary tree, it could well be possible that that quality in both us and them came from a distant co ancestor.
Though I wasn't thinking that far back when I wrote such. We as a species have existed in our own right long enough to have sorted out a framework of reasonable rules that benefit us.

In other words, re Neanderthals, we don’t really know.

There are some findings that might indicate it, but until we get time travel, we just won’t know.

I don’t think equality of outcome is possible (or even good.).

Defining equality of opportunity in the details is very challenging. I agree that it’s a good goal to strive for, but until we can agree what it actually means, we will fall short.

I think that in most western societies equality of opportunity is provided for. However there are sectors of society that need to be shown they are there and how to take advantage of them.
Thats really where the white privilege idea comes from I think. Those its more middle class privilege as once you are in that class you gain its benefits. That is the understanding of your parents in what opportunities are there and how to take them.

quote:

Originally posted by shankspony:
I think that in most western societies equality of opportunity is provided for. However there are sectors of society that need to be shown they are there and how to take advantage of them.
Thats really where the white privilege idea comes from I think. Those its more middle class privilege as once you are in that class you gain its benefits. That is the understanding of your parents in what opportunities are there and how to take them.

Excellent point, but more to the point in my mind anyway.... There are sectors of our modern society that are taught, deliberately, that equal,opportunity is being withheld from them. Thereby intentionally inducing apathy and despair.

yes I agree.

what the others are being taught is that they are being oppressed and it is their fault simply because they were born.
CRT, in a nutshell.

opportunity exists for everyone,,, everyone that doesn't have the woe is me I'm a victim attitude.

start telling the kids that they can grow up to be president again and watch how quickly things start to change.

quote:

Originally posted by shankspony:

quote:

Originally posted by Scott King:

quote:

Originally posted by shankspony:
Its amazing what sectors of our society have done to the upcoming generations. In the "old days" we were taught to face our fears and conquer them.

But those that can't? Those that can't conquer their fears? Do we ignore them, let them fail, suffer and die?

Of course I agree with my friend Jtex and manage my family similarly. Others do not raise their family in Jtex's wisdom, in some cases my neighbors and fellow citizens do not. What of their offspring?

As I've said many times I believe we fail our brothers and neighbors, we fail ourselves really when we allow our fellow citizens to be defeated, be it self inflicted or not.

If I read you right,
I think we are at the stage where we are being told to accept unreasonable fears. Fear of different opinions, need of safe spaces in environments that should not need such. We are not building resilience.
But thats different to those that rely have a problem and society should try to care for or find a place for those that need help.
We are building a rod for our back and creating illness which is allowing others to fail by tolerating these new concepts.

I agree, across the spectrum, society seems to be husbanding pampered crybabies. The repeated and redundant financial bailouts. The safe spaces you mentioned constructed for emotions and anxieties. Now everyone is a victim.

Truthfully I'm sort of an unlikeable moron, but because I show up for work everyday I am promoted and succeed.

I would think that keeping our fellow Americans from being defeated, be it self inflicted or not would be comprehensive. Welfare for those that truly need welfare. Back to work and possibly mandatory back to work for those that need it, job training and job retraining, ( possibly mandatory,) for some. Sure, some need locking up or really, society needs them locked up. I think we can let fewer Americans become career criminals than we do. Why not pickup every able bodied man living in public housing for mandatory shift work on public works like levees, bridges and highways. If you can't swing a shovel you can wash lunch dishes.

I think we're badly missguided. We assigned virtues, assets, vision and liberties to the cave dwelling tribesman in Afghanistan and dismiss our fellow Americans as animals and thugs. Ghetto trash. I think that makes us all look like morons.

Well right there is the first rule to getting somewhere. Show up everyday. Thats one thing that has always needed to be taught.

We are going through the tick box society right now.

Instead of picking the right PERSON for the job, we have to make sure he is not white.

He is not straight.

Perfect example is Kamala!

I think she was straight.. judging from the stories...

Scott, we have a segment of the politicians that think money should be handed out. A wage for just being a citizen, or non citizen if they could get away with it.
I am all for helping those in a tough spot.
I admit, I could care less about the drunks and druggies. Live in a box, die, whatever. The good thing is, some people do care about them, and try to help. Not sure they will be successful, but they try.

quote:

Why not pickup every able bodied man living in public housing for mandatory shift work on public works like levees, bridges and highways. If you can't swing a shovel you can wash lunch dishes.

Years ago New York tried that. I believe they called it "Work Fare".

The unions immediately put a stop to it, I thought then, and still do that it was a great idea.

I'm all for a safety net, A hand up, not these hand outs and welfare as a way of life.

We need more vocational training in our schools, why can we afford athletic programs and not vocational programs???? Our local high schools promote only three paths....college, military and incarceration..... They do have vocational programs in prisons....

quote:

Originally posted by JTEX:

quote:

Why not pickup every able bodied man living in public housing for mandatory shift work on public works like levees, bridges and highways. If you can't swing a shovel you can wash lunch dishes.

Years ago New York tried that. I believe they called it "Work Fare".

The unions immediately put a stop to it, I thought then, and still do that it was a great idea.

I'm all for a safety net, A hand up, not these hand outs and welfare as a way of life.

We need more vocational training in our schools, why can we afford athletic programs and not vocational programs???? Our local high schools promote only three paths....college, military and incarceration..... They do have vocational programs in prisons....

The unions are going to have to re assess or grow their ranks.

This current path you and I are both detailing is unsustainable. I think of Houston with so much respect and admiration, Space Center, oil industry, just being Texan, and it turns my guts to think of going to an Oilers game, and dealing with homeless. It ain't right for them or you.

Time for a new plan.

Today, I went to an auto parts store for some trailer tail lights with my far-right cousin. Somehow the conversation with the clerk turned into her monologue about living off welfare, etc. She is a black woman about 30. She went on a rant about some people refusing to work and how much trouble it had been for her to just find employees for the store. She said she could have "free" money, but worked throughout the pandemic.

At first I thought she was spoofing us. But she was serious.

Also, my far-right cousin and I pulled into a place that had an ice machine and also had a kiosk set up for free cell phones. He called them Obama phones. There were about five black folks attending the kiosk and they all turned and looked at us until they realized we were after the ice, not the free phones. Then they turned away.

So what was your opinion of all that ME?

In the first instance - some black folks have a work ethic.

In the second instance, I think maybe they were wondering how they were going to deal with a couple of white guys after free phones and were relieved that all we wanted was ice for our beer.

Well thats not really opinion. Im pretty sure most black americans have a work ethic.

Yes - most - for sure.

I just wish I could find one to work for me for a while.

But those who want to work have no problem finding full time gainful employment.

Others are hit or miss, black, brown, green or white.

quote:

Originally posted by shankspony:
Well right there is the first rule to getting somewhere. Show up everyday. Thats one thing that has always needed to be taught.

A fellow who graduated from school with me ended up as a plant manager in Mississippi. He said that the Southern boys that worked there would use any excuse they could find to take off work as often as possible, and that on opening day of deer season the place was nearly unmanned. I noticed this attitude as well when I visited my sister in Homa, Louisiana back in the 70's.

It's like that in the native villages in Alaska.

The hunters all vanish when the game is in - caribou, seals or whatever. It's acceptable behavior there.

Many years ago, I had a deer lease on the Alabama /Georgia line. Once, mid-day I drove into Alabama for lunch and gas and camping stuff. I stopped at several places and noticed there were no men around - all women. So, I asked. They said that it was the first day of deer season and all the men were out hunting.

It's not an "attitude". It's essential.

quote:

Originally posted by wymple:

quote:

Originally posted by shankspony:
Well right there is the first rule to getting somewhere. Show up everyday. Thats one thing that has always needed to be taught.

A fellow who graduated from school with me ended up as a plant manager in Mississippi. He said that the Southern boys that worked there would use any excuse they could find to take off work as often as possible, and that on opening day of deer season the place was nearly unmanned. I noticed this attitude as well when I visited my sister in Homa, Louisiana back in the 70's.

I frequently ask myself, do we live for the rare and unusual occasion or do we live for the day?

I guess I could grind myself to the broken bone working in a job I don't like in a town I don't like with people I don't like for an end product I don't like in order to take my two fucking weeks of annual leave to go to Disneyland; or, like the metaphorical ski bums in Aspen, I can live my dream every day.

I sort of appreciate the guys that take the day off with every excuse they can find.

quote:

Originally posted by Magine Enigam:
It's like that in the native villages in Alaska.

The hunters all vanish when the game is in - caribou, seals or whatever. It's acceptable behavior there.

Many years ago, I had a deer lease on the Alabama /Georgia line. Once, mid-day I drove into Alabama for lunch and gas and camping stuff. I stopped at several places and noticed there were no men around - all women. So, I asked. They said that it was the first day of deer season and all the men were out hunting.

It's not an "attitude". It's essential.

They chose their destiny and the Uber urban citified dipshits opinions don't matter.

You know who you are