How would Trump be able to do this magnificent claim? Easily. He would have Mexico build a wall--nothing to it.

Trump is a Bull Shitter, I've known many of his type, best just brush them off.

Grizz

Half of Americans believe him!

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
Half of Americans believe him!

We all should, you know he is itching for revenge after his failed attempt at blackmailing Zelenski ended up in his first impeachment trial. Besides, Trump and Putin are "friends", or was that Kim Jong Un, maybe both.

Yep, he’d nuke Ukraine for his genius buddy Putin, since obviously Russia can’t win it on their on.

In retrospect, Trump seems to not have been the negotiator and diplomat he thought he was.

quote:

Originally posted by jdollar:
Yep, he’d nuke Ukraine for his genius buddy Putin, since obviously Russia can’t win it on their on.

He might not nuke them but he sure would toss them under the bus.

quote:

Originally posted by skb:

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
Half of Americans believe him!

We all should, you know he is itching for revenge after his failed attempt at blackmailing Zelenski ended up in his first impeachment trial. Besides, Trump and Putin are "friends", or was that Kim Jong Un, maybe both.

Yeah, well, biden was successful at blackmailing Ukraine.... Wonder how much of our aid hunter is getting????

Remember Putin didn't invade when trump was president.....obama? Invaded.....biden? Invaded...

quote:

Originally posted by JTEX:

quote:

Originally posted by skb:

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
Half of Americans believe him!

We all should, you know he is itching for revenge after his failed attempt at blackmailing Zelenski ended up in his first impeachment trial. Besides, Trump and Putin are "friends", or was that Kim Jong Un, maybe both.

Yeah, well, biden was successful at blackmailing Ukraine.... Wonder how much of our aid hunter is getting????

Remember Putin didn't invade when trump was president.....obama? Invaded.....biden? Invaded...

And, a member of the 50% trumptard GOP weighs in. Believes fantasies.

No. Ukraine wouldn't have happened under DJT.

quote:

Originally posted by Scott King:
In retrospect, Trump seems to not have been the negotiator and diplomat he thought he was.

It's amazing, and many still believe.

No experience, no savvy, deemed a buffoon, yet he still believes and so does his followers.

quote:

Originally posted by bluefish:
No. Ukraine wouldn't have happened under DJT.

If you mean America would not have been there to support Ukraine under Trump I agree completely. DJT would have dropped the Ukrainians like a hot potato(e).

I added the e in parenthesis for those Dan Quayle fans amongst us.

quote:

Originally posted by JTEX:

quote:

Originally posted by skb:

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
Half of Americans believe him!

We all should, you know he is itching for revenge after his failed attempt at blackmailing Zelenski ended up in his first impeachment trial. Besides, Trump and Putin are "friends", or was that Kim Jong Un, maybe both.

Yeah, well, biden was successful at blackmailing Ukraine.... Wonder how much of our aid hunter is getting????

Remember Putin didn't invade when trump was president.....obama? Invaded.....biden? Invaded...

Would you have a source for your claims or do you get your information straight from Q?

quote:

Originally posted by bluefish:
No. Ukraine wouldn't have happened under DJT.

Yes it would. Trump’s stance on NATIONAL made this more likely. Also, Putin has said he was going to do this.

quote:

Originally posted by bluefish:
No. Ukraine wouldn't have happened under DJT.

The war would not have been necessary, he'd have given it away like Afghanistan.
Next question - would that have been the right thing to do?

The. All of you tell me what Putin did do while DJT was in the big chair? He did nothing. Why do so many of you seem to be against a policy of America first? It is a policy position which saw us rise to the status of the greatest nation on planet Earth.

quote:

Why do so many of you seem to be against a policy of America first?

It's but one clue, to the cancer.

One has to look at the magnitude of Trumpism to get it.

Trump is a fascist monster. Acknowledgnig that is the first step, like the 13 steps in AA.

Step two: all his base are fascist fodder.

It's not about America being "first" or a leader or nationalism, as a singular worldview. That's just one facet of the whole.

Trumpism should be rejected by any means, if for no other reason than Trumpism is all about winning by any means.

quote:

Originally posted by bluefish:
The. All of you tell me what Putin did do while DJT was in the big chair? He did nothing. Why do so many of you seem to be against a policy of America first? It is a policy position which saw us rise to the status of the greatest nation on planet Earth.

You rose to that status because you were involved in the world. Withdraw from it and see what happens as nations feel they have to form new trading, military and political unions.

quote:

Originally posted by shankspony:

quote:

Originally posted by bluefish:
The. All of you tell me what Putin did do while DJT was in the big chair? He did nothing. Why do so many of you seem to be against a policy of America first? It is a policy position which saw us rise to the status of the greatest nation on planet Earth.

You rose to that status because you were involved in the world. Withdraw from it and see what happens as nations feel they have to form new trading, military and political unions.

More like it is the simple fact that no one trusts America any more.

A country falling apart, because of their unbelievably stupid policies!

Removing elected governments all over the world and replacing them with their own puppets!

By the way, what is actually going on with the war in the Ukraine?

Seems Russia is keeping all the arteas they have occupied.

The Ukrainians are suffering an inhuman life, and no one in the West even consider peace talks??

Another West's adventure opportunity?

Because America First does not succeed when you give the works over to China and Russia.

Putin does not think in terms of 4 year elections. He thinks he is Russia. He said he was going to do this. President Trump’s attempts to weaken NATO helped nothing.

While Trump did many questionable things, and I am not certain of how things would be different under him as POTUS in a second term, Trump's underlying point that NATO and our allies needed to start living up to their commitments was a good thing. I don't buy that Trump really weakened NATO, but rather weakened some of our political institutions and the politicians who were running our allies.

If the Western democracies had lived up to their pledge of military spending starting under Obama's years, where would we be right now?

I don't know why Russia avoided invasion under a Trump administration... would it be because he thought he could get most of what he wanted without force? Or is it that Trump was too much of a wild card for Putin to think he actually could predict what Trump would do? The fact speaks that he did not do so, and the decision was not made to invade until after.

My suspicion is that Putin thought Biden would be Obama II and react exactly like Obama did the first time. My feeling is that Trump's lack of respect for some of our allies' institutions strengthened their internal resolve and allowed the eastern members of NATO to push for a more robust response than Obama gave and have pushed the US into the position we are in now and made Joe support Ukraine as strongly as he has.

Russia could stand another string of economic embargoes, but not embargoes plus actively funding a opposing force.

As to peace talks, the western allies have no real control over that. Ukraine and Russia have all the control there (except that the west could cut Ukraine off, and force them to accept whatever Russia offers...which doesn't sound very equitable, does it?)

Frankly, I think US policy being the US first has its positive points... but I don't trust Trump to actually put the US first, rather Donald Trump would be first in his calculations. Sadly, I am not entirely sure that whats good for DJT might not be marginally better than whatever it is that Joe Biden is pushing, but neither are what is good for the US or for the rest of the world.

A US first policy would recognize we need our friends in the world and that they need us.

It also needs to recognize that we really need to pick our battles. Not everything is a matter of existential threat, and we should be willing at times to put up with others acting in an awful manner and let them learn their own lessons if it doesn't make an existential threat to us; and if our allies feel its existential to them, we support them... if they really are allies.

This is an example of the US first attitude:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news...618de0db35b397&ei=27

Trump reveals plan for ‘largest domestic deportation operation in American history’
Story by Ryan King • Yesterday 9:40 AM

------------------------------------------------
"Under my leadership, we will use all necessary state, local, federal, and military resources to carry out the largest domestic deportation operation in American history," Trump told the CPAC audience Saturday. "We will pick them up, and we will throw them out of our country, and there will be no questions asked."

------------------------------------------------


Labor camps?

Cities walled off and designated Red or Blue?

Dystopia's only limit is the imagination of fascism.

quote:

Originally posted by bluefish:
No. Ukraine wouldn't have happened under DJT.

Because Putin played Trump like a 1 string fiddle. He wouldn’t have had to invade because Trump would have hung Ukraine out to dry at Putins request. Those of you who think that insecure bag of wind would do anything other than fold to Putin are deluded.

That said, Western Europe countries should absolutely make good on their NATO spending pledges. Many are now doing so, but due to Putins actions. Having the orange twat making threats isn’t going to do anything. Remember “we are watching you and taking names” at the Jerusalem vote?

What is not funny but ironic is President Trump defenders will tell you President Trump just wanted NATO countries to pay their fair share.

What we have now is Germany paying more than what Trump allegedly wanted.

It’s kind of a little late there…

If Germany had kept up, they could be sending small arms- yet they were unable to field enough to do exercises themselves. (Edmond pointed that out years ago…)

They don’t have adequate tank supplies that they are trying to buy back old ones to send… pretty sad for a maker of top tier armor.

Trump definitely didn’t do a good job of selling that they needed to get on the ball, but all of our “reasonable” presidents had allowed this to occur. Biden certainly didn’t do anything there…. The point of preparedness is to not have this big delay. It cost us (and the west) in both world wars that we did this… so now it’s happening again, but with different players.

Trump’s methodology was horrible, but at least he tried making it something of a priority. Obama/Biden had warning signs when the Russians went in to the Crimea originally, yet other than some economic sanctions (that the Europeans really tried to drag their feet on) what did they do?

We are in the shape we are because we have been fighting a low level conflict for 20 years… deferred maintenance, but constantly buying new stuff. We are a mixed bag. The western members of NATO were asleep at the switch. Ukraine would be overrun if it wasn’t for our newer eastern members of the alliance.

Here is some drama, a movie based on real events, history and characters.

Don't think we are past it, and it couldn't be this way again.

America first seems so benevolent, but it has a very ugly side, and past.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2T9_6oR0qSI

Why Bill The Butcher Is One Of The Most Terrifying Villains In Film History

quote:

Trump’s methodology was horrible, but at least he tried making it something of a priority. Obama/Biden had warning signs when the Russians went in to the Crimea originally, yet other than some economic sanctions (that the Europeans really tried to drag their feet on) what did they do?

So, with Europe dragging their feet on sanctions, you now think WE should be at war with Russia in Crimea? How did our last couple go?

I don’t think we should be at war over Ukraine.

I do think if Obama had done what the west did this time, it wouldn’t have happened this time.

I suspect Putin expected our response to be the same as Obama’s this go around… and that’s why it’s a mess.

Trump was something of a wild card… which is not very stable as far as world predictability, but does tend to make both allies and adversaries a bit more cautious.