Why is the left so worried

06 February 2025, 23:16

ANTELOPEDUNDEE

Only Congress can do that. We all want the money spent wisely, duh. Part of it is creating a hit list. They have access to personal information that they have no business seeing. I wonder if they're frisked for thumb drives before they enter restricted areas.
If each of us had a line item veto of the Federal budget [huge as it is] there might be a lot of cuts common to all of us.

One waste is the YUGE fucking motorcade every time he travels. Must cost millions. Or his golf outings.

07 February 2025, 00:04

jeffeosso

Back in the day, the use of government
Money to influence was called "influence peddling " and was considered bad form

07 February 2025, 01:18

Jefffive

That pesky Constitution that says only Congress can spend money, and a whole host of Federal privacy laws about who gets access to citizen's information in government computers.

07 February 2025, 01:42

jeffeosso

quote:
Originally posted by Jefffive:
That pesky Constitution that says only Congress can spend money, and a whole host of Federal privacy laws about who gets access to citizen's information in government computers.

Congress allocates the funds, the executive spends it. Congress doesn't spend a meaningful percentage of the federal budget... but treasury does.. and treasury is an executive department

I can buy and send you a copy of Charlie Kirk's "3rd grader" version of the constitution if you need it.. pm your address

07 February 2025, 05:44

JTEX

quote:
Originally posted by Jefffive:
That pesky Constitution that says only Congress can spend money, and a whole host of Federal privacy laws about who gets access to citizen's information in government computers.

Fifi? Every single hire at the IRS has citizens information?????

Your argument is stupid!

07 February 2025, 06:49

ledvm

quote:
They have access to personal information that they have no business seeing.

How are they less qualified than the average bureaucrat worker seeing it?

07 February 2025, 07:19

ANTELOPEDUNDEE

quote:
Originally posted by JTEX:
quote:
Originally posted by Jefffive:
That pesky Constitution that says only Congress can spend money, and a whole host of Federal privacy laws about who gets access to citizen's information in government computers.

Fifi? Every single hire at the IRS has citizens information?????

Your argument is stupid!

I doubt that's true at all. If it was then trump's returns would have been leaked long ago along with probably many others.

07 February 2025, 07:21

ANTELOPEDUNDEE

quote:
Originally posted by ledvm:
quote:
They have access to personal information that they have no business seeing.

How are they less qualified than the average bureaucrat worker seeing it?

Because the number of folks who have access is probably extremely limited and they are qualified, but I never said that qualified had anything to do with it did I?

They have the proper credentials that allow them to see it.

07 February 2025, 09:37

Scott King

quote:
Originally posted by JTEX:
About DOGE and Elon Musk?????

Don't they want our tax money spent wisely?????

I understand that most entities have outside auditors annually or occasionally. Someone outside the umbrella needs to independently look at the books.

I also understand that the Defense Department has failed audits for seven years or something like that. That amount of time takes us back to Trump's first term. After the second failed audit, why was the Defense Department not offered termination if they failed a third audit?

I believe that in a perfect world all agencies and departments should pass annual audits. I believe they should pass or suffer consequences. Regardless outside influences, public entities should pass audit as a rule or they should not longer be public entities.

So how did we get here? How did we come to the place where we think we need Musk?

It wasn't just the Democrats.

07 February 2025, 15:21

JTEX

quote:
Originally posted by Scott King:
quote:
Originally posted by JTEX:
About DOGE and Elon Musk?????

Don't they want our tax money spent wisely?????

I understand that most entities have outside auditors annually or occasionally. Someone outside the umbrella needs to independently look at the books.

I also understand that the Defense Department has failed audits for seven years or something like that. That amount of time takes us back to Trump's first term. After the second failed audit, why was the Defense Department not offered termination if they failed a third audit?

I believe that in a perfect world all agencies and departments should pass annual audits. I believe they should pass or suffer consequences. Regardless outside influences, public entities should pass audit as a rule or they should not longer be public entities.

So how did we get here? How did we come to the place where we think we need Musk?

It wasn't just the Democrats.

I agree wholeheartedly, Scott.

And no, it wasn't just the democrats.

So lets fix it!

07 February 2025, 17:17

ledvm

quote:
They have the proper credentials that allow them to see it.

And exactly what credentials would those be?

Can you list a few here so we can discuss them?

07 February 2025, 18:21

jeffeosso

quote:
Originally posted by Scott King:
quote:
Originally posted by JTEX:
About DOGE and Elon Musk?????

Don't they want our tax money spent wisely?????

I understand that most entities have outside auditors annually or occasionally. Someone outside the umbrella needs to independently look at the books.

I also understand that the Defense Department has failed audits for seven years or something like that. That amount of time takes us back to Trump's first term. After the second failed audit, why was the Defense Department not offered termination if they failed a third audit?

I believe that in a perfect world all agencies and departments should pass annual audits. I believe they should pass or suffer consequences. Regardless outside influences, public entities should pass audit as a rule or they should not longer be public entities.

So how did we get here? How did we come to the place where we think we need Musk?

It wasn't just the Democrats.

your facts are correct, the focus is off

WHO was the first president to audit the DoD?

I'll wait

07 February 2025, 18:44

Magine Enigam

quote:
the focus is off

The focus in this thread is scattered. And Jeffee, you're of in La La land as usual.

The OP posits the question of tax money spent wisely. For Rightists "wisely" is about as ideologically subjective as it gets, and has practically nothing to do with the purpose of an appropriation.

If you don't believe that then ask yourself if these cuts run rampant by DOGE have any purpose other than to satisfy a long-standing rightist ideology of small govt. And the cuts are totally arbitrary without consideration of the spending purpose, but simply to cut.

Audits aren't about "wisely". They are about accuracy accounting and conforming to the purpose of the appropriation. If the appropriation is unwise, auditors don't care about that. Not their job.

The most significant question:

quote:
So how did we get here? How did we come to the place where we think we need Musk?

Significant observation:

quote:
It wasn't just the Democrats.

A partial answer to Scott's question:

https://www.wesa.fm/2025-02-04...e-federal-government

Why Elon Musk is driving such drastic changes in the federal government
NPR
By Courtney Dorning, Mia Venkat, Connor Donevan, Mary Louise Kelly
Published February 4, 2025 at 6:14 PM EST

A more better answer is found in the origins of Project 2025, and the ideology driving that.

What's happening now is the culmination of long-term planning and plotting by the far right. This is their dream, and they WILL run rampant.

If Musk serves their ideology, he will not be deterred, no matter how many oligarchs multiply their wealth.

Also:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news...87db649240e4a6&ei=61

Donald Trump to Sell Off Half of All Federal Property: What to Know

Search on "Trump to sell off public lands"

Results:

https://www.google.com/search?...oAdR&sclient=gws-wiz

"Drill baby Drill"

*************
“Those who control the present, control the past and those who control the past control the future.” George Orwell, 1984
https://www.google.com/search?...sclient=gws-wiz-serp

Degenerate 1:1
1 Then Trump said, "Let Us re-make a Nation in MY Image, after My likeness, to rule over everything in the Nation, and over all the earth itself and every creature that crawls upon it".

Degenerate 1:2
2 Then Trump said, "Vengeance is mine, I will repay on your behalf."

Degenerate 1:3
3 "My Kingdom come, My will be done."

"When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." - Sinclair Lewis

O.J. Trump aka Trumpism's Founding Farter, aka Farter Martyr.

"Be careful. When a democracy is sick, fascism comes to its bedside, but it is not to inquire about its health." - Albert Camus

07 February 2025, 19:20

JTEX

Mangina you are an idiot, we all know that.....

Our money has been wasted by the right and the laftt.

Its time to stop!

Why are so many terrified of this waste coming to light????

.

07 February 2025, 19:35

Magine Enigam

quote:
Why are so many terrified of this waste coming to light????

Who says that "terrified" is the right word to describe the reaction?

Who says that what they deem "waste" is actually going to be exposed to objective reasoning? And is this "coming to light" going to be before or after it's deemed remedied?

And who defines "waste" in this context?

I said before that these cuts seem arbitrary, but I changed my mind about that somewhat. There seems to be special focus or target on Rightists' pet peeves, such as climate change, environmental issues and regs, health and human services, rules concerning corruption, and much more.

Here's a clue:

Search on: "bondi shuts down agency for foreign interferences"

Results: https://www.google.com/search?...sclient=gws-wiz-serp

07 February 2025, 19:47

ledvm

quote:
Originally posted by Magine Enigam:
quote:
the focus is off

The focus in this thread is scattered. And Jeffee, you're of in La La land as usual.

The OP posits the question of tax money spent wisely. For Rightists "wisely" is about as ideologically subjective as it gets, and has practically nothing to do with the purpose of an appropriation.

If you don't believe that then ask yourself if these cuts run rampant by DOGE have any purpose other than to satisfy a long-standing rightist ideology of small govt. And the cuts are totally arbitrary without consideration of the spending purpose, but simply to cut.

Audits aren't about "wisely". They are about accuracy accounting and conforming to the purpose of the appropriation. If the appropriation is unwise, auditors don't care about that. Not their job.

The most significant question:

quote:
So how did we get here? How did we come to the place where we think we need Musk?

Significant observation:

quote:
It wasn't just the Democrats.

A partial answer to Scott's question:

https://www.wesa.fm/2025-02-04...e-federal-government

Why Elon Musk is driving such drastic changes in the federal government
NPR
By Courtney Dorning, Mia Venkat, Connor Donevan, Mary Louise Kelly
Published February 4, 2025 at 6:14 PM EST

A more better answer is found in the origins of Project 2025, and the ideology driving that.

What's happening now is the culmination of long-term planning and plotting by the far right. This is their dream, and they WILL run rampant.

If Musk serves their ideology, he will not be deterred, no matter how many oligarchs multiply their wealth.

Also:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news...87db649240e4a6&ei=61

Donald Trump to Sell Off Half of All Federal Property: What to Know

Search on "Trump to sell off public lands"

Results:

https://www.google.com/search?...oAdR&sclient=gws-wiz

"Drill baby Drill"

Wow!!!
I presume you typed this with a straight face ME and weren't snickering and spewing coffee as you typed.

If you turned every position you take or insinuation you suggest in your post 180 degrees...you would have the truth nailed.

We should ALL (every American) be applauding the work of DOGE thus far.

space

07 February 2025, 19:49

ledvm

quote:
Originally posted by ledvm:
quote:
They have the proper credentials that allow them to see it.

And exactly what credentials would those be?

Can you list a few here so we can discuss them?

07 February 2025, 19:52

Magine Enigam

quote:
If you turned every position you take or insinuation you suggest in your post 180 degrees...you would have the truth nailed.

Thanks to you and Trump and his supporters in general, for me deciphering Truth from Fiction has become easier in most cases. All I have to do is read your words, or listen to you, then flip it for the Truth.

07 February 2025, 19:55

ledvm

quote:
Originally posted by Magine Enigam:
quote:
If you turned every position you take or insinuation you suggest in your post 180 degrees...you would have the truth nailed.

Thanks to you and Trump and his supporters in general, for me deciphering Truth from Fiction has become easier in most cases. All I have to do is read your words, or listen to you, then flip it for the Truth.

ME,
You wouldn't know the truth if it walked up and shook your hand. You are the most biased ideologue (or at least rank at the top) I have ever known.

Your whole mind is fiction.

07 February 2025, 19:58

Magine Enigam

Do you acknowledge that Project 2025 is a Rightist Ideological manifesto?

07 February 2025, 20:01

ledvm

I have no idea what Project 25 is. I would not even know about it if it weren't for you and a few other liberals screaming about it.

07 February 2025, 20:04

ANTELOPEDUNDEE

quote:
Originally posted by ledvm:
quote:
They have the proper credentials that allow them to see it.

And exactly what credentials would those be?

Can you list a few here so we can discuss them?

I'm not privvy to how they vett their personnel. I don't believe that everybody who works at the Treasury has access to restricted information. Do you think that Amazon employees who work in shipping have access to sensitive business info?

Are they supposed to be looking to fire employees based on how much they're paid?

07 February 2025, 20:04

Magine Enigam

quote:
Originally posted by ledvm:
I have no idea what Project 25 is. I would not even know about it if it weren't for you and a few other liberals screaming about it.

Yea, Trump denied knowledge of it too.

That works for those fellow believers in fiction.

07 February 2025, 20:12

TomP

quote:
Originally posted by ledvm:
I have no idea what Project 25 is. I would not even know about it if it weren't for you and a few other liberals screaming about it.

Are we to believe that Donald Trump wrote all of those executive orders with the proverbial purple crayon in two months after the election?

07 February 2025, 20:22

Magine Enigam

There was a comment in this thread about the left and the right's contribution to "waste" in govt spending. But the premise is that the left is "worried" or "terrified" about what the right is doing but not contributing to remedies.

It's a false premise.

Nobody likes TP money to be wasted.

I read somewhere that for every so-deemed illegal immigrant, costs over $15,000 each to deport.

But that's another argument.

https://www.warren.senate.gov/...nment-more-efficient

NewsroomPress Releases
January 23, 2025
Warren Sends Musk a DOGE Plan to Make Government More Efficient
“If you are serious about finding ways to make the federal government more efficient and save money for American taxpayers—without cutting key programs like Medicare, Medicaid, and Social Security or raising taxes on middle-class families—there are ample opportunities for you to do so.”

The letter provides Musk with 30 recommendations to meet his original goal of cutting “at least” $2 trillion in federal spending.

“I am happy to work with you to eliminate this government waste.”

(PFD Text of letter follows in the link)

=========================================

Also:

Search on: what is Musk's goal with DOGE

Results: https://www.google.com/search?...sclient=gws-wiz-serp

07 February 2025, 20:33

Magine Enigam

As you probably noticed, sometimes I give a link to search results with many articles from various sources for your edification.

The results are mostly good sources. Lots of Truth therein.

Read at your pleasure.

Search on: why does Musk want to take over the US treasury

Results:

https://www.google.com/search?...sclient=gws-wiz-serp

07 February 2025, 20:51

ANTELOPEDUNDEE

quote:
Originally posted by TomP:
quote:
Originally posted by ledvm:
I have no idea what Project 25 is. I would not even know about it if it weren't for you and a few other liberals screaming about it.

Are we to believe that Donald Trump wrote all of those executive orders with the proverbial purple crayon in two months after the election?

Those were likely all written for him and maybe even before the election. Didn't he say that for a billion dollars that the oil companies could write their own EOs?

He had ample opportunity to cut waste during his first term, but more than likely just added to it.

07 February 2025, 21:24

Magine Enigam

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news...d732a3593241b2a&ei=8

Watchdog delivers blistering takedown of Elon Musk's plan
Story by Matthew Chapman • 17h • 2 min read

A government watchdog tore into tech billionaire Elon Musk's operation to reform the federal government in a blistering thread published to Musk's own X platform on Thursday.

Musk's team, known as the Department of Government Efficiency, or DOGE, has seized control of vital federal IT systems since President Donald Trump was sworn in, gaining access to the Treasury Department's payment systems and the computers managing Medicare and Medicaid, among other things. A federal judge temporarily halted some of DOGE's access earlier in the day.

"Donald Trump claims that he wants to make the government more efficient and cut federal spending—that’s supposed to be the whole point of DOGE. But he’s not acting like it. At all," wrote the group Citizens for Responsibility and Ethics in Washington or CREW.

"First off, he unceremoniously fired inspectors general from 17 different federal agencies. Those are the watchdogs who investigate and root out waste, fraud and abuse. They pay for themselves many times over," CREW continued. "He’s also attempting to unilaterally freeze funding to certain programs and agencies — which likely violates the Impoundment Control Act. If he was serious about saving taxpayer dollars, he could work with Congress rather than improperly withholding funds."

(more)

=========================================

Fox News spew says Rightist ideology well:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/auto...f947dcdc2f5dfb&ei=67

Turley on Musk: If you throw a badger into a crowded car, people will get out

========================================

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news...494b37a7060fc9&ei=27

National Prayer Event Devolves Into Ungodly Partisan Brawl
Story by Juliegrace Brufke • 19h • 2 min read

Is that the GD Paula White again?

===========================================

Here's a fascist move:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news...187be5342f372b&ei=32

Trump Orders Termination of 'Every Single Media Contract' Expensed by Government Communication Agency: Report
Story by Allison Walker • 18h • 2 min read

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news...a495a85cccec89&ei=27

Trump Orders Federal Government to Cancel All News Subscriptions For Employees And Offices
Story by Phillip Nieto • 19h • 2 min read

==========================================

07 February 2025, 23:42

ledvm

quote:
Originally posted by ANTELOPEDUNDEE:
quote:
Originally posted by ledvm:
quote:
They have the proper credentials that allow them to see it.

And exactly what credentials would those be?

Can you list a few here so we can discuss them?

I'm not privvy to how they vett their personnel. I don't believe that everybody who works at the Treasury has access to restricted information. Do you think that Amazon employees who work in shipping have access to sensitive business info?

Are they supposed to be looking to fire employees based on how much they're paid?

I think you answered wisely. You don't know. Further, you listed no credentials, so I gather you know of no specific credentials needed. I submit there is no significant difference between these employees of Musk's and the average bureaucrat -- except they are smarter.

08 February 2025, 00:01

Magine Enigam

Search on: does musk's doge team have security clearances

Results:

https://www.google.com/search?...sclient=gws-wiz-serp

08 February 2025, 00:14

ANTELOPEDUNDEE

quote:
Originally posted by ledvm:
quote:
Originally posted by ANTELOPEDUNDEE:
quote:
Originally posted by ledvm:
quote:
They have the proper credentials that allow them to see it.

And exactly what credentials would those be?

Can you list a few here so we can discuss them?

I'm not privvy to how they vett their personnel. I don't believe that everybody who works at the Treasury has access to restricted information. Do you think that Amazon employees who work in shipping have access to sensitive business info?

Are they supposed to be looking to fire employees based on how much they're paid?

I think you answered wisely. You don't know. Further, you listed no credentials, so I gather you know of no specific credentials needed. I submit there is no significant difference between these employees of Musk's and the average bureaucrat -- except they are smarter.

I guess you must think that they have janitors running these systems. At least they'd be Government employees who have been vetted and given proper security clearance. There are probably plenty of "engineers" who could run and maintain the systems, but the Treasury doesn't want or need them all. They aren't there for the same reason/s that the regular employees are.

08 February 2025, 00:41

M.Shy

I know what 2025 is, it is this year and that’s that
And it is Year of Trump and year of cleaning up Dems mess

08 February 2025, 00:47

RolandtheHeadless

quote:
Originally posted by ledvm:
quote:
Originally posted by ANTELOPEDUNDEE:
quote:
Originally posted by ledvm:
quote:
They have the proper credentials that allow them to see it.

And exactly what credentials would those be?

Can you list a few here so we can discuss them?

I'm not privvy to how they vett their personnel. I don't believe that everybody who works at the Treasury has access to restricted information. Do you think that Amazon employees who work in shipping have access to sensitive business info?

Are they supposed to be looking to fire employees based on how much they're paid?

I think you answered wisely. You don't know. Further, you listed no credentials, so I gather you know of no specific credentials needed. I submit there is no significant difference between these employees of Musk's and the average bureaucrat -- except they are smarter.

"Credentials" is taking you two down the wrong track.

IRS employees have contractual, regulatory, and statutory duties to keep taxpayer information secret, except as necessary to disclose in performance of their duties.

Musk's people ain't got none of that.

08 February 2025, 01:32

jeffeosso

quote:
Originally posted by JTEX:
About DOGE and Elon Musk?????

Don't they want our tax money spent wisely?????

well .. 46+ BILLION dollars given away in, shall we say, capricious causes outside of the US

Meanwhile
Biden said FEMA was broke, here's a $750 LOAN to those recovering from a hurricane

~800K homeless people, INCLUDING VETS, could have been GIVEN nearly $60k for teh same money

and how much of that COULD have gone to VETS

I used to think dems had no brains, now it appears they have no heart

Anyone see Aunt Max trying to force her way into the DoE building? "Why can't i come in here, i am a member of congress, we PAY you"

No Auntie, WE pay YOU, YOU allocate OUR money --

As a congresswoman, you have ZERO special privs to enter government buildings, and failing to leave SHOULD have resulted in criminal trespass perp walks

08 February 2025, 02:27

ledvm

quote:
Originally posted by RolandtheHeadless:
quote:
Originally posted by ledvm:
quote:
Originally posted by ANTELOPEDUNDEE:
quote:
Originally posted by ledvm:
quote:
They have the proper credentials that allow them to see it.

And exactly what credentials would those be?

Can you list a few here so we can discuss them?

I'm not privvy to how they vett their personnel. I don't believe that everybody who works at the Treasury has access to restricted information. Do you think that Amazon employees who work in shipping have access to sensitive business info?

Are they supposed to be looking to fire employees based on how much they're paid?

I think you answered wisely. You don't know. Further, you listed no credentials, so I gather you know of no specific credentials needed. I submit there is no significant difference between these employees of Musk's and the average bureaucrat -- except they are smarter.

"Credentials" is taking you two down the wrong track.

IRS employees have contractual, regulatory, and statutory duties to keep taxpayer information secret, except as necessary to disclose in performance of their duties.

Musk's people ain't got none of that.

What evidence do you have?

08 February 2025, 02:31

ledvm

quote:
Originally posted by ANTELOPEDUNDEE:
quote:
Originally posted by ledvm:
quote:
Originally posted by ANTELOPEDUNDEE:
quote:
Originally posted by ledvm:
quote:
They have the proper credentials that allow them to see it.

And exactly what credentials would those be?

Can you list a few here so we can discuss them?

I'm not privvy to how they vett their personnel. I don't believe that everybody who works at the Treasury has access to restricted information. Do you think that Amazon employees who work in shipping have access to sensitive business info?

Are they supposed to be looking to fire employees based on how much they're paid?

I think you answered wisely. You don't know. Further, you listed no credentials, so I gather you know of no specific credentials needed. I submit there is no significant difference between these employees of Musk's and the average bureaucrat -- except they are smarter.

I guess you must think that they have janitors running these systems.

From what I have seen…not far off.

At least they'd be Government employees who have been vetted and given proper security clearance.

Tell me this is a joke! 51 security clearances have been proven to have lied and misled you.

There are probably plenty of "engineers" who could run and maintain the systems, but the Treasury doesn't want or need them all. They aren't there for the same reason/s that the regular employees are.

Yeah, the regulars are there to waste your money and Elon’s team is there to save your money.

08 February 2025, 04:07

RolandtheHeadless

Penalties
Be aware that you cannot access or disclose confidential tax information unless a provision of the Code authorizes the access or disclosure.
Unauthorized disclosure or access could subject you to criminal penalties under §7213 and §7213A (UNAX). A taxpayer may also seek civil damages
under §7431.
Criminal Penalties:
§7213 specifies that willful unauthorized disclosure of returns or return information by an employee or former employee is a felony.
The penalty can be a fine of up to $5,000 or up to five (5) years in jail, or both, plus costs of prosecution.
Under §7213A, willful unauthorized access or inspection (UNAX) of taxpayer records by an employee or former employee is a misdemeanor. This applies to both paper documents and electronic information.
Violators can be subject to a fine of up to $1,000 and/or sentenced to up to one year in prison.

https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/p4761.pdf