[QUOTE]Originally posted by crbutler:
But the left wants to insist that we should not be allowed to look at the past behavior of potential employees with some limited exceptions in areas that are considered sensitive by the government.

So I should not be able to know that the guy I’m hiring as a janitor has a history of stealing stuff…

Yet the employer is responsible for criminal acts by employees?

As far as I’m concerned this guy should be given his day in court and then punished, and not the leftist “rehabilitation “ punishment. More like Old Testament retribution punishment for this

Not for me to decide, but I think some are un redeemable on this earth. I think sometimes people are so poisoned, so sick, so tainted that there's no cure for them here on this planet.

I don't see how you, "learn from the mistake or error of being a pedophile ".

Some of the blame should fall on the sickness that is Christianity, which teaches you can do any sort of horrible crimes on this earth and still go to heaven, if you accept Jesus as your savior.

It's a very self- and society-destructive belief.

If you are Trump’s “spiritual advisor” you can pretty much regard yourself as a failure in most respects to begin with.

quote:

Originally posted by RolandtheHeadless:
Some of the blame should fall on the sickness that is Christianity, which teaches you can do any sort of horrible crimes on this earth and still go to heaven, if you accept Jesus as your savior.

It's a very self- and society-destructive belief.

Pure horseshit my friend. You and all the rest of us know better.

Ah, no.

That is very much mainline Baptist.

Kabob, you only just heard about Obo's spiritual advisor? That was all the news when it happened.
And had nothing to do with obo, actually.

quote:

Originally posted by LHeym500:
Ah, no.

That is very much mainline Baptist.

Using your brains occasionally might be helpful.

If God or the Baptists thought it was fine to sin however much and often as you want as long as you accept Jesus as your Savior then why mention The Law or the rules at all? Why not simply dismiss The Ten Commandments as Judaisms problem?

Why would Jesus feed the hungry and heal the sick if all that matters is Salvation? "Do unto others" is a rule, "The Golden Rule".

Ain't that sort of like a law or something?

quote:

Originally posted by Scott King:

quote:

Originally posted by LHeym500:
Ah, no.

That is very much mainline Baptist.

Using your brains occasionally might be helpful.

If God or the Baptists thought it was fine to sin however much and often as you want as long as you accept Jesus as your Savior then why mention The Law or the rules at all? Why not simply dismiss The Ten Commandments as Judaisms problem?

Why would Jesus feed the hungry and heal the sick if all that matters is Salvation? "Do unto others" is a rule, "The Golden Rule".

Ain't that sort of like a law or something?

Judging from the actions of modern day American Christians, I don't see him as being wrong.

I believe many have lost the plot, maybe not you Scott, but I do think many others have lost their way.

quote:

Originally posted by Steve Bertram:

quote:

Originally posted by Scott King:

quote:

Originally posted by LHeym500:
Ah, no.

That is very much mainline Baptist.

Using your brains occasionally might be helpful.

If God or the Baptists thought it was fine to sin however much and often as you want as long as you accept Jesus as your Savior then why mention The Law or the rules at all? Why not simply dismiss The Ten Commandments as Judaisms problem?

Why would Jesus feed the hungry and heal the sick if all that matters is Salvation? "Do unto others" is a rule, "The Golden Rule".

Ain't that sort of like a law or something?

Judging from the actions of modern day American Christians, I don't see him as being wrong.

I believe many have lost the plot, maybe not you Scott, but I do think many others have lost their way.

I'm not certain I haven't, but I am certain you are correct.

Technically, most sex crimes have a very low recidivism rate.

There are a subset who are not going to stop short of force.

quote:

Originally posted by Scott King:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by crbutler:
But the left wants to insist that we should not be allowed to look at the past behavior of potential employees with some limited exceptions in areas that are considered sensitive by the government.

So I should not be able to know that the guy I’m hiring as a janitor has a history of stealing stuff…

Yet the employer is responsible for criminal acts by employees?

As far as I’m concerned this guy should be given his day in court and then punished, and not the leftist “rehabilitation “ punishment. More like Old Testament retribution punishment for this

Not for me to decide, but I think some are un redeemable on this earth. I think sometimes people are so poisoned, so sick, so tainted that there's no cure for them here on this planet.

I don't see how you, "learn from the mistake or error of being a pedophile ".

quote:

Originally posted by crbutler:
Technically, most sex crimes have a very low recidivism rate.

There are a subset who are not going to stop short of force.

quote:

Originally posted by Scott King:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by crbutler:
But the left wants to insist that we should not be allowed to look at the past behavior of potential employees with some limited exceptions in areas that are considered sensitive by the government.

So I should not be able to know that the guy I’m hiring as a janitor has a history of stealing stuff…

Yet the employer is responsible for criminal acts by employees?

As far as I’m concerned this guy should be given his day in court and then punished, and not the leftist “rehabilitation “ punishment. More like Old Testament retribution punishment for this

Not for me to decide, but I think some are un redeemable on this earth. I think sometimes people are so poisoned, so sick, so tainted that there's no cure for them here on this planet.

I don't see how you, "learn from the mistake or error of being a pedophile ".

not what can be said on the visitors of a treasure island ...

quote:

Originally posted by Scott King:

quote:

Originally posted by Steve Bertram:

quote:

Originally posted by Scott King:

quote:

Originally posted by LHeym500:
Ah, no.

That is very much mainline Baptist.

Using your brains occasionally might be helpful.

If God or the Baptists thought it was fine to sin however much and often as you want as long as you accept Jesus as your Savior then why mention The Law or the rules at all? Why not simply dismiss The Ten Commandments as Judaisms problem?

Why would Jesus feed the hungry and heal the sick if all that matters is Salvation? "Do unto others" is a rule, "The Golden Rule".

Ain't that sort of like a law or something?

Judging from the actions of modern day American Christians, I don't see him as being wrong.

I believe many have lost the plot, maybe not you Scott, but I do think many others have lost their way.

I'm not certain I haven't, but I am certain you are correct.

Your response does not change basic understanding of Baptist nor Hid.

Many pay a price for sin. David did, Paul did. Saul (King) did. That did not change their relationship to salvation.

Look at Sampson.

Jesus has not redeemed me. Ashes to ashes, etc. what is redeemed is that internal part of God given to use. The soul.

News Flash, Hell is not Hell because it is hot. Hell is Hell because that internal part of the divine is forever separated from its originator.


Believe what you want. The fact is ms y do not. The Christian Bible supports redemption beyond works.

Most of Paul’s teachings were that
gentiles who were never part of the Old Covenant were not bound by those cultural rules. This was in part because Paul thought the works was going to end in 3 months.

The parable of the vineyard where the faithful, hard working servants receive the same measure as the sloth and poor servants comes to mind. If actions equal Heavenly reward, the sloth severances would have been discharged. damned with the dutifully receiving better.

I take no joy in any bring damned and hope none see Hell.

There is a verse that admonishes us not to judge another man’s servant. If we are here to serve God and come to redemption through the sacrifice and resurrection of House, that soul relationship is God’s to judge. Not mine, I’ll handle the secular. His and Jesus will handle the soul.

I actually heard the subject of this three speak at a state non-partisan, heavily GOP attended function.

One thing that always puts me on earthly awareness be cautious of those who claim to be something; especially, those who call themselves “religious” or “patriots.”

Here's something refreshing and I believe wholesome:

https://youtu.be/nuDS-WX2yv4?si=uJvP1Z_uR_sc7gmq

A New Way to Think About Religion and Politics with James Talarico | American Conversations

quote:

Originally posted by LHeym500:

quote:

Originally posted by Scott King:

quote:

Originally posted by Steve Bertram:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Scott King:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by LHeym500:
Ah, no.

That is very much mainline Baptist.

Using your brains occasionally might be helpful.

If God or the Baptists thought it was fine to sin however much and often as you want as long as you accept Jesus as your Savior then why mention The Law or the rules at all? Why not simply dismiss The Ten Commandments as Judaisms problem?

Why would Jesus feed the hungry and heal the sick if all that matters is Salvation? "Do unto others" is a rule, "The Golden Rule".

Ain't that sort of like a law or something?

Believe what you want. The fact is ms y do not. The Christian Bible supports redemption beyond works.

This is about the only point I could noodle out of your gibberish. So who said the Christian Bible doesn't support redemption beyond works? I didn't nor did i readit anywhere else.

I've met wooden mallots with more sense than you.

Again and yes ill give up on you now, why is there law included in our modern Bible.? Why did Jessus himself provide rules to live by?

Yeah, scripture references to support an argument are gibberish to those who just want to argue.

Here is another such reference.

Work about your own salvation in fear and trembling.

Another personal maximum related to the one given other. Be weary of those who pass damnation. They usurp God’s role.

quote:

Originally posted by Scott King:

quote:

Originally posted by RolandtheHeadless:
Some of the blame should fall on the sickness that is Christianity, which teaches you can do any sort of horrible crimes on this earth and still go to heaven, if you accept Jesus as your savior.

It's a very self- and society-destructive belief.

Pure horseshit my friend. You and all the rest of us know better.

No, Scott, I don't know any better. I was raised by a Catholic mother and Lutheran father. They taught me sinners can repent and be saved.

Let's do a thought experiment. On his death bed, after he took the poison, Adolf Hitler genuinely repented all his evil deeds, prayed to God for forgiveness, and accepted Jesus as his savior.

Would Hitler's soul be saved, do you think?

I asked my mother the above, and after some hemming and hawing, she admitted that Catholic doctrine said Hitler would be saved.

Do you believe Hitler would be damned regardless?

quote:

Originally posted by RolandtheHeadless:

quote:

Originally posted by Scott King:

quote:

Originally posted by RolandtheHeadless:
Some of the blame should fall on the sickness that is Christianity, which teaches you can do any sort of horrible crimes on this earth and still go to heaven, if you accept Jesus as your savior.

It's a very self- and society-destructive belief.

Pure horseshit my friend. You and all the rest of us know better.

No, Scott, I don't know any better. I was raised by a Catholic mother and Lutheran father. They taught me sinners can repent and be saved.

Let's do a thought experiment. On his death bed, after he took the poison, Adolf Hitler genuinely repented all his evil deeds, prayed to God for forgiveness, and accepted Jesus as his savior.

Would Hitler's soul be saved, do you think?

I asked my mother the above, and after some hemming and hawing, she admitted that Catholic doctrine said Hitler would be saved.

Do you believe Hitler would be damned regardless?

"Faithful and just to forgive us our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness."

What's the question?

The promise, the guarantee of forgiveness and salvation in no way shape or form condonnes the breaking of law or rules. Hitler, post poison on his deathbed would be at the end of his evil, his sin. True honest repentance isn't a scam or game to continue sin or evil using forgiveness and salvation as a safety net.
Repentance of sin is honest, sincere, a commitment.

Jesus didn't say " your forgiven, party on Muchacho!", Jesus said , "go and sin no more". That's the point, the intention, the effort. It's not a question, I'm going to sin more and it embarrasses me a bit, it's personally disappointing, but I'm going to live to try not to. I'm going to try to follow the rules, I've dedicated my life to being a Christ like father, man and employee. That Jesus saved my soul means I won't be damned for my failings.

I called you on your horseshit because you know that.

quote:

Yeah, scripture references to support an argument are gibberish to those who just want to argue.

Scott calls your prior post gibberish not on merits of its theme but the lack of comprehension of its theme due the atrociously poor writing. When Edward Bulwer-Lytton acclaimed “the pen is mightier than the sword,” he never considered anyone ‘trying’ to communicate much less write an argument with such horrendous penmanship. Proofread man! Or send your post to The Mikes prior to posting for proofreading…or maybe the wordsmith Roland. Had anyone else posted such poorly written gibberish…Mike J, the grammar policeperson, would have flown in for the flog. The Little Lord of Louisville gets a pass from The Mikes for deference.

I found this and read it. This seems to fit in this discussion.

I never heard of "vertical morality" vs "horizontal morality", but it makes sense after reading the article.

"Vertical Morality" Is The Term That May Describe Why MAGA Christians Seem So Unchristian

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news...7e43f6&ei=84#image=1

[INSERT 1] The key to understanding this apparent contradiction might lie in something called “vertical morality.” This ethical framework measures righteousness not by goodness to others, but by something more simplistic.

Below, Christian advocates and former fundamentalists break down what vertical morality means and how it explains our political landscape today.

What Is Vertical Morality?

[INSERT 2] “Vertical morality teaches that authority, power, and a moral code of right and wrong, or acceptable and unacceptable, come from ‘above’ ― an external superior who designates rules, systems, and tenets that must be obeyed by those beneath,” said Tia Levings, a former Christian fundamentalist and author of A Well-Trained Wife: My Escape from Christian Patriarchy.

In the context of religion, the superior is God. In politics, it might be an authoritarian dictator. In a cult, it would be the controlling leader. Whatever the circumstances, the idea is that behaviors are only right or wrong based on what the figure in power says.

“Vertical morality in Christianity is the idea that our ethics and behaviors have a duty to please God alone. We get our morals from God and we must obey him, furthering the will of God no matter the cost,” said April Ajoy, author of Star-Spangled Jesus: Leaving Christian Nationalism and Finding A True Faith.

The term has become popular in the social media sphere in recent years, thanks to viral videos from content creator and activist Rachel Klinger Cain. She told HuffPost she started using this terminology in her content a few years ago. “Vertical morality is just how I describe what’s called ‘divine command theory’ in metaethics,” she said. “I’m a teacher, so I’m always looking for ways to make complicated concepts a little more simple.

It’s basically the idea that morality comes from authority above, which is what I was taught when I was raised within conservative Christianity.”

[INSERT 3] “Horizontal morality prioritizes the well-being of our neighbors, communities and personal relationships,” Ajoy explained. “We act in ways that cause the least amount of harm to those around us, regardless of beliefs. Someone with vertical morality may help someone in need because they believe that’s what God wants them to do, versus someone with horizontal morality may help that same person for the benefit of the person that needs help.” Rather than unquestioning obedience and superficial optics, this approach focuses on genuine empathy, compassion, and love toward others, recognizing the actual effects our actions have on people.

“I think both are important in the Christian faith, but a lot of people today get hung up on the vertical as a priority and forget about the horizontal altogether,” said Malynda Hale, an advocate and executive director of The New Evangelicals, a nonprofit focused on promoting inclusivity, justice, and compassion in Christianity. Similarly, Ajoy believes that the most Christ-like approach is to hold a position of horizontal authority, because doing so also subscribes to vertical morality. “In Matthew 25, Jesus describes people who fed and clothed those in need, who welcomed the stranger, who took care of the sick and visited those in prison,” she noted. “He then says, ‘What you did for the least of these, you did for me.’ He equates loving our neighbors (horizontal morality) with loving Christ (vertical morality).”

How Vertical Morality Shapes Politics And Justice Today:

[INSERT 4] The distinction isn’t just theological nitpicking. Experts say it sheds considerable light on contemporary politics.

“Evangelicals are taught that all morality comes from God and therefore true goodness can only be spread by obeying God, even if it harms people around us,” Ajoy said. “This isn’t necessarily a bad thing if pleasing God manifests by following the teachings of Jesus ― loving our neighbors, loving our enemies, promoting peace, and taking care of the poor, the widow, the immigrant, and standing up for the marginalized.

It becomes dangerous when Christians weaponize this vertical morality for power, which is exactly what we’re seeing with the Christian nationalism in the Trump administration.” In the current era, conservative Christian nationalists see anyone on their political team as good and on God’s side, while those who oppose them as evil and satanic.

“What’s interesting is that Jesus taught a compassionate, flexible, grace-filled view of what it means to live a life loving God,” Levings noted. “But today’s conservative Christianity is less influenced by Jesus and more by the Old Testament and Paul.” She pointed to theonomy, the belief that Old Testament laws should be applied to modern society, as an influence on Christian nationalist politics.

[INSERT 5] “It predates Jesus, and it’s disinterested in evidence, science, progress, research, experience, or the inclusion of other worldviews,” Levings said. “Theonomy is part of the Reformed theology that’s been growing in the evangelical movement for the past 30 years.”

Summarizing the role of vertical morality in the Old Testament, Klinger Cain highlighted the story of Abraham, who was commended for his willingness to obey God’s command to sacrifice his son Isaac, despite the act’s inherent immorality. “What should happen if you have a horizontal moral system is, you should go, ‘I’m not murdering someone, even if an authority figure has told me to do that,’” she said.

“But under vertical morality, that would be a sin because you’re disobeying God.” Drawing from the most violent and extreme chapters of Biblical history, this approach frames unquestioning obedience as the highest virtue, even when it demands actions that defy compassion or common sense.

And what might’ve once been a religious debate has now become a broader cultural conflict thanks to the role of conservative Christians in writing Project 2025 and otherwise shaping public policy.

[INSERT 6] Under a vertical moral system, the worst thing you can do is disobey God’s laws, and this perspective has bled into politics as well. Klinger Cain offered the example of the rather callous response to “Alligator Alcatraz” and the extremely punitive treatment of immigrant detainees from MAGA Christians. “On one side, we’re looking at people who are undocumented, so yes, they’ve broken a rule. But for the most part, there are no victims ― so why is our government being so harsh?” she said. “But the other side, with this fundamental Christian worldview, sees every broken rule as deserving a super harsh punishment. You don’t have to be a murderer or a rapist to go to hell. Every broken rule leads to hell ― even just taking a bite of an apple cursed all of humanity.”

This religious viewpoint desensitizes people, so inhumane immigrant detention feels fine and deserved. Klinger Cain added that, for people with this perspective, the only way to escape the fate of hell is not through good actions but simply by being on the right God-ordained MAGA team. “Vertical morality has caused white conservative, MAGA-aligned Christianity to completely abandon the core of Christ’s teachings because their focus is on self-interest and perceived moral purity,” Hale said. “To them, they are Christians and haven’t abandoned the faith at all, but their framework measures righteousness in a way that can excuse behaviors that the general public knows and sees aren’t Christlike at all.”

This system also demonizes empathy. Some conservative authors have even written books describing empathy as sinful or “toxic.” “If Abraham had empathized too much with his son and chosen not to kill him, then that empathy would have been a sin,” Klinger Cain said. “We’ve seen this concept play out in Christianity with pastors telling parents not to allow their children to be gay, even if it hurts them. The idea is don’t allow your empathy to support sin in this way.”

Why Vertical Morality Appeals To People — And Why It Can Be Dangerous :

[INSERT 7] This ease of this straightforward absolutism helps explain why vertical morality appeals to so many people. “It’s comforting to always know what the answer is and where to find it,” Klinger Cain said. “It’s probably nice for your nervous system to not worry about whether you’re doing something right or not.” In times of cultural change, many people are drawn to simple authoritarian structures due to fear and uncertainty, she added.

[INSERT 8] She believes this is why conservative Christians have had a lot of success galvanizing their political base to get on board quickly with things that might seem morally questionable. On the other side of the aisle, she sees more infighting as people try to use logic and empathy to find solutions and come to differing conclusions.

“Vertical morality feels safe in chaotic times, when ‘figuring things out’ or ‘learning from past mistakes’ feels daunting,” Levings said.

“It’s also easier to comply with when the bottom-dwelling citizens feel like they have little power or agency to resist an authoritarian system. Sometimes, compliance is a matter of survival, and agreeing with it is a necessary means of getting along and staying safe.” Hale agreed that vertical morality feels easier and less complicated than actually confronting systemic issues and the complexities of social justice. “It’s easy to measure your faith by private devotion or rules that you think are in the bible, rather than by how you show up in the world,” she said. “The unfortunate part is that it can blind people to injustice and sometimes cause them to justify harmful behavior.

When your focus is on individual righteousness rather than collective responsibility, you don’t learn how to show up for others ― you only care about your own journey.” As a result, Hale added, you risk fostering a society where people aren’t held accountable for harmful actions and can be cruel and exclusionary, as long as they are “good Christians.” Rather than social responsibility, it’s all about personal salvation.

“There’s a quote I heard often growing up in this world that says, ‘Some Christians are so heavenly-minded that they’re no earthly good.’ And I think that perfectly sums up the risks of holding solely to a vertical morality,”

Ajoy said. “Our history is full of instances of Christians causing human suffering because they believed they were obeying God. And God’s will can be manipulated and weaponized for all sorts of harm.”

[INSERT 9] “We’re seeing vertical morality weaponized today in the Trump administration,” Ajoy said. “If they can convince people that they are ‘of God,’ then it doesn’t matter who they hurt in the process. They say Christian things. They quote scripture. But they are wreaking havoc on the very people Jesus calls us to love and care for. It reminds me of another verse in Matthew 15 that says, ‘These people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me.’”

Levings emphasized broader risks of vertical morality, noting that it depends on the benevolence of the power on top and is based on an ancient code that cannot be challenged or questioned. Those who try are shamed and cut off from the group. “Vertical morality can’t take into consideration modern advancements or needs, evidence of failures, new research and information, and human progress in civilization,” she explained. “Those with a vertical structure aren’t inclusive or accepting of other worldviews. Diversity can’t exist because it threatens the high contrast right-wrong rigidity found in fundamentalist authoritarianism.”

[INSERT 10] “I think that vertical morality can bring genuine spiritual depth and discipline, but it has to work in tandem with horizontal ethics,” Hale said. “We always say faith without works is dead. Faith without action is incomplete. Personal piety can become performative if it isn’t rooted in love for others.”

For many Americans, the gap between Christian teachings and MAGA politics is baffling. How can people profess faith in Jesus ― who preached love, mercy and care for the oppressed ― while supporting policies that punish immigrants, demonize LGBTQ people and glorify cruelty?

I stopped after id guess six paragraphs.

Jesus's work was here on earth. Here with people. Jesus served the people with Him, next to Him, within sight of Him. The thief on the cross wasn't beamed to Jesus via the internet from Siberia, he was within arms reach.

John the Baptist served those he could get in the river with. John got in the river with them, not for them or instructed them to do so in a particular fashion from the seat of his Lazyboy, John the Baptist got wet with these he served.

For us here, "Love your neighbors " doesn't refer to Ukraine, Palestine or Ethiopia.

I think we have been very plainly directed to get out our front door, on the front lawn, on the sidewalk in front of our house and see what we can do.

Very interesting.
I thought what would happen between Hitler and God, was between them.
How would/could Scott answer for Gods decision?

quote:

Originally posted by theback40:
Very interesting.
I thought what would happen between Hitler and God, was between them.
How would/could Scott answer for Gods decision?

It's my impression or understanding of what is said in the Bible. I was asked and I answered. I'd suggest not putting any undue weight in my opinion.

quote:

Originally posted by theback40:
Very interesting.
I thought what would happen between Hitler and God, was between them.
How would/could Scott answer for Gods decision?

My question was about Christian doctrine and how Scott or anyone else would reconcile it with an exteme example. I wasn't asking for Godlike omnipotence in being able to read Hitler's actual thoughts as he died. My thought experiment gives Hitler's true repentance as a given.

No, Scott did not answer my question. Would Hitler be saved?

quote:

Originally posted by RolandtheHeadless:

quote:

Originally posted by theback40:
Very interesting.
I thought what would happen between Hitler and God, was between them.
How would/could Scott answer for Gods decision?

My question was about Christian doctrine and how Scott or anyone else would reconcile it with an exteme example. I wasn't asking for Godlike omnipotence in being able to read Hitler's actual thoughts as he died. My thought experiment gives Hitler's true repentance as a given.

No, Scott did not answer my question. Would Hitler be saved?

Based on my understanding of the Bible and in part due to what I quoted above emphatically yes.

Given that God made humans in His own image, it's interesting that God's sense of justice could be so different from our human sense of justice.

quote:

Originally posted by RolandtheHeadless:
Given that God made humans in His own image, it's interesting that God's sense of justice could be so different from our human sense of justice.

These days, that i don't act like, think like or speak like a god or God i don't find suprising.

This is why the Founders made the constitution secular, and why the concept of separation of church and state was/is so essential.

Protection FROM religion is just as important, perhaps more so, as protection OF religion.

The rule of law is hard enough to sort out and apply, as proven by Trump.

Throw in all the variants and interpretations of religious dogma, and above all deciphering God's Will, it's a quagmire of mental gymnastics.

Any time I read or hear of someone who says they know God's will, I cringe. That's especially in the context of right or wrong. I don't even bother to ask how, but if I did I would ask if it's the little voice in your head? Or perhaps it's the little voice in your preacher's head. Maybe, for MAGA, it's the big/little voices in Trump's head.

I shouldn't be forced to hire stupid people either.

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:

quote:

Yeah, scripture references to support an argument are gibberish to those who just want to argue.

Scott calls your prior post gibberish not on merits of its theme but the lack of comprehension of its theme due the atrociously poor writing. When Edward Bulwer-Lytton acclaimed “the pen is mightier than the sword,” he never considered anyone ‘trying’ to communicate much less write an argument with such horrendous penmanship. Proofread man! Or send your post to The Mikes prior to posting for proofreading…or maybe the wordsmith Roland. Had anyone else posted such poorly written gibberish…Mike J, the grammar policeperson, would have flown in for the flog. The Little Lord of Louisville gets a pass from The Mikes for deference.

Amen!