The Israeli People certainly didn't benefit from concert-goers and babies being massacred.

The Palestinian People didn't benefit from having sheer hell called down upon them in the inevitable Israeli retaliation.

The Israeli government, specifically Netanyahu, didn't benefit by presiding over the worst intelligence failure since 1967 and from reducing forces facing Gaza to pressure the West Bank.

The Palestinian government, such as it is, didn't benefit from again being exposed as unable to police it's own territory.

Hamas leadership may enjoy temporary benefits but they surely must have known that Israel will stop at nothing to individually hunt down and kill them, and they've already started.

Iran, Hamas' primary sponsor, may enjoy short-term benefits from Israel being rather distracted away from them but if accusations of direct involvement in planning/preparation for the attack are proven their costs will be horrendous, not only from Israeli retaliation but international sanctions.

So who does that leave?

There are seemingly credible reports that Wagner has fairly recently been conducting training for Hamas, and it probably isn't coincidental that the Russian misinformation fire hose has been concentrated on Gaza since the attack. Putin likely expected the United States to experience increased political turmoil after the attack, not realizing that his Republican puppets are already doing everything they possibly can. He also likely expected American support for Israel to come at the expense of support for Ukraine, and it looks like his best efforts to start some shit in the Balkans has failed, at least so far.

I can't prove Vladimir Putin was largely behind this shit but if the wind is from the right direction you can smell him back there.

China, Russia, and Iran all have desire to be relevant world and regional powers.

Anything that confuses or creates conflict of priorities for the US is a good thing to those nations.

As to Hamas, they probably were in a situation where their base was demanding “something” even if it realistically would not cause a good result.


The Russians will find that Israel doesn’t play by the US and the west’s rules and are by definition “Old Testament” types.

If some idiot in Wagner did this, Mossad will hunt him down and kill him, and more effectively than Putin does it.

If Putin did more than set the table by training and giving armaments to Hamas, I’d be surprised, but who knows.

This is spot on. Hamas is being played as sacrificial puppets to distract from either Ukraine or Tawain.

quote:

Originally posted by MtElkHunter:
This is spot on. Hamas is being played as sacrificial puppets to distract from either Ukraine or Tawain.

Careful, agreeing with me can get you put on lists around here.

All plausible and hopefully time will tell us

According to U.S. officials intelligence indicates that top Iranians were surprised by the attacks.

Somewhere surveillance video is being scrutinized for known Wagner leaders entering or exiting the area, bet on it.

The American Military/Industrial complex will not lose out that's for sure.

quote:

Originally posted by bluefish:
The American Military/Industrial complex will not lose out that's for sure.

Maybe the ONLY ones that will benefit.

I don't think we should forget that the anti Israel movement in the ME isn't driven by cost/benefit analysis.
12th Imam types come to mind.

quote:

Putin likely expected the United States to experience increased political turmoil after the attack, not realizing that his Republican puppets are already doing everything they possibly can.

And with a senile geriatric president, not to mention a giggling fool of a vice president.....and sec def that is more concerned about including trannies in the military than our state of readiness....this might just be a good time to roll....

We're gonna have a speaker of the house in days.....we will have a senile geriatric president, not to mention a giggling fool of a vice president.....and sec def that is more concerned about including trannies in the military than our state of readiness.for much longer....

The world is much more dangerous when the us is weak.....under slo joe we are weak....

Something I know nothing about that I question.

How dd so many people training in Palestine on paraglider's not get someones attention?

quote:

Originally posted by MtElkHunter:
This is spot on. Hamas is being played as sacrificial puppets to distract from either Ukraine or Tawain.

I'll guess this means Bibi's corruption trial will be put off for awhile, as well...

quote:

And with a senile geriatric president,

You just keep repeating that while at the same time telling us he is an evil genius behind your fake "Biden crime family" BS. trump's base is all in with you.

quote:

Originally posted by shankspony:
Something I know nothing about that I question.

How dd so many people training in Palestine on paraglider's not get someones attention?

I would guess that training was in Lebanon.

quote:

Originally posted by wymple:

quote:

And with a senile geriatric president,

You just keep repeating that while at the same time telling us he is an evil genius behind your fake "Biden crime family" BS. trump's base is all in with you.

Strange that the only people in the world who think President Biden is senile are the ones who think Donald Trump is fit for the Presidency.

I think they are both useless candidates in their own uniqe way Get better candidates on both sides, better for both the US and the rest of the world!

quote:

Originally posted by Jefffive:

quote:

Originally posted by wymple:

quote:

And with a senile geriatric president,

You just keep repeating that while at the same time telling us he is an evil genius behind your fake "Biden crime family" BS. trump's base is all in with you.

Strange that the only people in the world who think President Biden is senile are the ones who think Donald Trump is fit for the Presidency.

Wrong. I think both are unfit to be president. One is a crook and the other is senile.

I am still wondering on the why of this. I have been thinking about this and maybe another possible reason is the destruction of Israel. There are a lot of countries that want Israel gone so one possible reason maybe the end game is something like this: Major player supports and gloats Hamas to attack Israel and purposely encourages atrocities knowing full well that it will outrage Israel and the world into attacking Hamas with the distinct possibility that Israel will go way overboard in the retaliation and do its own atrocities. If that happens then there is a good possibility that the world option of Israel will go down the tubes and thus drop support for them. At that point Israel would be rip for a take over by anyone and said major player could get away with it.

I know this sounds like a plot out of the twilight zone, but the big losers would be Israel and Hamas, basically both pawns in a much bigger game. Just food for thought.

quote:

Originally posted by MtElkHunter:
I am still wondering on the why of this. I have been thinking about this and maybe another possible reason is the destruction of Israel. There are a lot of countries that want Israel gone so one possible reason maybe the end game is something like this: Major player supports and gloats Hamas to attack Israel and purposely encourages atrocities knowing full well that it will outrage Israel and the world into attacking Hamas with the distinct possibility that Israel will go way overboard in the retaliation and do its own atrocities. If that happens then there is a good possibility that the world option of Israel will go down the tubes and thus drop support for them. At that point Israel would be rip for a take over by anyone and said major player could get away with it.

I know this sounds like a plot out of the twilight zone, but the big losers would be Israel and Hamas, basically both pawns in a much bigger game. Just food for thought.

And it's made worse by Netanyahu, a clear criminal, is desperately trying to avoid spending the rest of his life in prison.

Israel's military leaders are painfully aware of all the geo-political currents around them and will almost certainly take every effort to avoid atrocities while destroying Hamas. As long as they can do that the entire world except Russia, China and a handful of Arab countries will back them.

I remain convinced that the State of Israel will never die with their nuclear weapons still in the magazine.

My concern is Hamas wants the Israeli military to move into Gaza. I figure Hamas knew Israel could not let this level of infringement on its sovereignty and citizens go. This, forcing Israel to commit to an, for lack of a better word, invasion of Gaza.

There has not been an Israeli in Gaza in 20ish years. That place is going to be savage fighting.

I am not saying for Israel, mobilizing into Gaza is not necessary. I am saying one does not simply walk into Gaza.

quote:

Originally posted by LHeym500:
My concern is Hamas wants the Israeli military to move into Gaza. I figure Hamas knew Israel could not let this level of infringement on its sovereignty and citizens go. This, forcing Israel to commit to an, for lack of a better word, invasion of Gaza.

There has not been an Israeli in Gaza in 20ish years. That place is going to be savage fighting.

I am not saying for Israel, mobilizing into Gaza is not necessary. I am saying one does not simply walk into Gaza.

I could see an immense refugee camp along the Egyptian border with unarmed Palestinians allowed through a breach in the fence controlled by Israel before starting the assault.

Give them a way out and be seen to do so.

quote:

Originally posted by DRG:

Except they are hiding behind their own children while pointing.

Im quiet on this subject a little because Its so complicated I feel nothing said is correct. One of the questions I saw today was that If Poland can take in 2 million Ukrainian refugees, Why cant the Arab states open thier borders and take Palestinian refugees?

Palestinians are kind of considered the dregs of the Middle East. None of their Arab neighbors want them.

They’re the red headed step child at the Arab family reunion. Nobody wants them in the Arab world.

quote:

Originally posted by shankspony:
Im quiet on this subject a little because Its so complicated I feel nothing said is correct. One of the questions I saw today was that If Poland can take in 2 million Ukrainian refugees, Why cant the Arab states open thier borders and take Palestinian refugees?

Go back and look at the U.N. partitioning of 1947-48. Palestinians could have had their own state but the Arab countries told them to reject it, that they would wipe Israel off the map and the Palestinians could have it all.

Not so easy to do as it turns out.

Those countries that took in Palestinians found them "troublesome", at best. Only Jordan really made any accommodation for them, Egypt refuses to let them cross the border that abuts Gaza even to get away from the coming shitstorm because they doubt they would ever get them to leave.

The vast majority of the Ukrainian refugees in Poland want only to return to Ukraine.

Yep. But then it speaks volumes about the Faux rage and consternation that much of the middle east erupts into over Israels actions in return.

quote:

Originally posted by shankspony:
Yep. But then it speaks volumes about the Faux rage and consternation that much of the middle east erupts into over Israels actions in return.

Hypocrisy? In the Middle East?

Pshaw, how you do go on...

We are just Lucky Saeed isn't here right now. Because Vietnam and afghanistan.

quote:

Originally posted by shankspony:
Im quiet on this subject a little because Its so complicated I feel nothing said is correct. One of the questions I saw today was that If Poland can take in 2 million Ukrainian refugees, Why cant the Arab states open thier borders and take Palestinian refugees?

Lyndon Johnson called Vietnam "The biggest damn mess I ever saw", would likely say the Middle East takes its place.

As to the question of "Who Benefits From the Attack on Israel?":

From the start of this recent attack and conflict there is something that doesn't make sense to me. Why would Hamas provoke Israel knowing darn well how they would respond? All the civilians are pawns and bait to a bigger scheme. The Hamas powers don't care about civilian deaths, either side. It's what looks like some fool poking a stick at a cobra to provoke a strike, but all along the fool has a plan to cut the cobra's head off, or at least corral it from all sides.

Here's an article that explains:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news...08ba15f1373f52&ei=29

Israel Is Walking Into a Trap
Story by Hussein Ibish • 7h

quote:

Originally posted by Magine Enigam:
As to the question of "Who Benefits From the Attack on Israel?":

From the start of this recent attack and conflict there is something that doesn't make sense to me. Why would Hamas provoke Israel knowing darn well how they would respond? All the civilians are pawns and bait to a bigger scheme. The Hamas powers don't care about civilian deaths, either side. It's what looks like some fool poking a stick at a cobra to provoke a strike, but all along the fool has a plan to cut the cobra's head off, or at least corral it from all sides.

Here's an article that explains:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news...08ba15f1373f52&ei=29

Israel Is Walking Into a Trap
Story by Hussein Ibish • 7h

I don't expect Israel to undertake a long-term occupation of Gaza, just to destroy the tunnel network and Hamas' ability to manufacture rockets and maybe, just maybe, cripple Hamas to the point that the Palestinian people can regain control.

Zeihan always has a thought provoking take.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WxXJOqqNFVM

In Gaza, everyone is brain washed against Israel
They teach children in kindergarten to hate Israel, Jews and Christian’s for that matter
Nothing ain’t gonna happen in near and far future
It’s simply lost cause

quote:

Originally posted by RolandtheHeadless:
Palestinians are kind of considered the dregs of the Middle East. None of their Arab neighbors want them.

For good reason, they're nothing but trouble makers.

Grizz

quote:

Originally posted by Jefffive:

quote:

Originally posted by Magine Enigam:
As to the question of "Who Benefits From the Attack on Israel?":

From the start of this recent attack and conflict there is something that doesn't make sense to me. Why would Hamas provoke Israel knowing darn well how they would respond? All the civilians are pawns and bait to a bigger scheme. The Hamas powers don't care about civilian deaths, either side. It's what looks like some fool poking a stick at a cobra to provoke a strike, but all along the fool has a plan to cut the cobra's head off, or at least corral it from all sides.

Here's an article that explains:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news...08ba15f1373f52&ei=29

Israel Is Walking Into a Trap
Story by Hussein Ibish • 7h

I don't expect Israel to undertake a long-term occupation of Gaza, just to destroy the tunnel network and Hamas' ability to manufacture rockets and maybe, just maybe, cripple Hamas to the point that the Palestinian people can regain control.

Netanyahu claimed he wants the extinction of Hamas and he's the man to do it.

Grizz

quote:

Originally posted by Grizzly Adams1:

quote:

Originally posted by Jefffive:

quote:

Originally posted by Magine Enigam:
As to the question of "Who Benefits From the Attack on Israel?":

From the start of this recent attack and conflict there is something that doesn't make sense to me. Why would Hamas provoke Israel knowing darn well how they would respond? All the civilians are pawns and bait to a bigger scheme. The Hamas powers don't care about civilian deaths, either side. It's what looks like some fool poking a stick at a cobra to provoke a strike, but all along the fool has a plan to cut the cobra's head off, or at least corral it from all sides.

Here's an article that explains:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news...08ba15f1373f52&ei=29

Israel Is Walking Into a Trap
Story by Hussein Ibish • 7h

I don't expect Israel to undertake a long-term occupation of Gaza, just to destroy the tunnel network and Hamas' ability to manufacture rockets and maybe, just maybe, cripple Hamas to the point that the Palestinian people can regain control.

Netanyahu claimed he wants the extinction of Hamas and he's the man to do it.

Grizz

Netanyahu just presided over the biggest intelligence failure in modern history.

Hamas PUBLISHED video of them rehearsing this attack a month ago and nobody in Israeli Intelligence noticed?

Link

quote:

Originally posted by Jefffive:
I don't expect Israel to undertake a long-term occupation of Gaza, just to destroy the tunnel network and Hamas' ability to manufacture rockets and maybe, just maybe, cripple Hamas to the point that the Palestinian people can regain control.

I dunno, who will be allowed back into that seaside paradise, when this current crisis blows over?

quote:

Originally posted by TomP:

quote:

Originally posted by Jefffive:
I don't expect Israel to undertake a long-term occupation of Gaza, just to destroy the tunnel network and Hamas' ability to manufacture rockets and maybe, just maybe, cripple Hamas to the point that the Palestinian people can regain control.

I dunno, who will be allowed back into that seaside paradise, when this current crisis blows over?

It looks like the Israelis are just trying to get the Palestinians to move within Gaza without forcing them out, but there's really not going to be much to come back to in Gaza City after they destroy several hundred miles of tunnels underneath it.

quote:

Originally posted by Magine Enigam:
As to the question of "Who Benefits From the Attack on Israel?":

From the start of this recent attack and conflict there is something that doesn't make sense to me. Why would Hamas provoke Israel knowing darn well how they would respond? All the civilians are pawns and bait to a bigger scheme. The Hamas powers don't care about civilian deaths, either side. It's what looks like some fool poking a stick at a cobra to provoke a strike, but all along the fool has a plan to cut the cobra's head off, or at least corral it from all sides.

Here's an article that explains:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news...08ba15f1373f52&ei=29

Israel Is Walking Into a Trap
Story by Hussein Ibish • 7h

This is exactly what I think. it's trap and they are falling for it.