I think what is missing in this is the two term wall.

Look at elections post FDR, the party that holds the office for two terms has a record that becomes a prison cell.

McCain after Bush,
Gore after Clinton,
HRC after Obama,
And the odd ones that follow a successful but presidential campaign:l buy who follow a president that term is cut short:
LBJ after JFK
Ford after Nixon

Bush the Elder bucks this trend with Regan, but even Bush the Elder was a one and done.

Two terms exposes the Party to too many angles of attack in this modern world.

Note how an economic downturn following the above two terms always seems to pop up.

On another note that undermines the traditional incumbent is grievance. Slowly we have more and more stopped requiring policy explanations to problems with voters running to the side they identified problems real or perceived offering no solutions. Trump round 2 is a good example. Trump targeted folks fear over loss of economic opportunity, buying power that represents their standard of living. This made cultural scapegoats a viable campaign cornerstone. Then Dems want to see trans people protected while you are not going to be able to afford living as you have.

Now all that said for reasons both her own, her husband, and the grievance machine HRC was especially a bad candidate, but a good candidate was going to have a difficult avenue following Obama. The reason Trump becomes a player is that far right policy mechanisms saw him as a vehicle and a vessel. A vehicle to power and a vessel to store up and pour out their policy in the ge e of decades of defeat. Trump is a conduit of ten to the mass voter. They saw Romney standing beside President Obama and they see the same person. A person thot they have been politically breeding to resent, dislike. “Why should I vote for Romney? He looks like, sounds like, is nice to what I seek to have destroyed and been told is destroying me.” Thus, the turnout is self-suppressed. Along comes Trump who attacks, yells, threatens the other. Now, I’m fired up and ready to go vote. Finally, someone who actually says, acts, and engages in the correct level of anger, grievances, and resentment.

The traditional GOP, the Senator McConnell’s have this political blood on their hands because they played footsie with it winking at attacks in President Obama’s citizenship, attacks on his Americanism. Remember the old lady during McCain’s town hall, “Obama is an Arab.” They winked at vilification of minority communities. They refused to hold President Trumps accountable for Jan 6. This was all done with a wink and a nod to temporary fast avenue to political power.

We have met the enemy, and he is us.

That mantra being pushed on here that the dems need better candidates is a fallacy, and a stupid one at that. trump is so god damned dumb that anybody is a better candidate. What we need isn't better candidates, we need voters, as Saeed has openly stated, that are not brain dead stupid. trump just stated that the US does very little business with Canada, who is our biggest buyer of American goods. Carney had to school him. Only 3 1/2 months in, he's ruining ag exports, the auto industry, tourism, the stock market, you name it. And he's telling us it's going to be good for us to suffer. Maybe 2 Barbie dolls instead of 20 or 30. How about maybe 2 rifles instead of your collections?

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:

quote:

Originally posted by Scott King:
What a nonsense argument!
Hillary was vilified, demonized! Of course Hillary was a terrible candidate. I can only think of one other candidate so disliked and that's Trump.

Hillary got more votes than Trump because of Trump. The voters weren't voting for Hillary they were voting against Don. Likewise the voters in some measure voter against Biden and so elected Trump.

I know I ain't that old, but I've never seen anything like it. Both Hillary and Harris were run as an agenda or to appease a fringe or something. Neither of those two have any appeal to the average American.

see, scott, in think, in 2016, that they were voting AGAINST Hillary, as trump was kind of an unknown -- Trump did win 30.5 states -

I was SHOCKED by trump winning 2016 - i thought he was the of the 3rd weakest GOP candidates in 60 years - while he was ahead of Bob Dole and the COMBO of mccain/bimbo, I thought there was NO WAY a weak GOP candidate beats a Dem after Obama -

2020 - against trump - 50-50 on states, but trump got 12 MILLION more votes than he did in 2016

2024 - who knows -- i bet lots of people were voting against trump, but 6 million missing dem votes? seems kinda sketchy -- NO, this isn't a 2020 was stolen claim, it's where did they go/why did they stay home 31.5 states and another +3m votes than 2020 -- so 15m votes more than 2016 -

I'm sure it's me but I'm not following. Help me out here with a little restructuring.

quote:

Originally posted by shankspony:

quote:

Originally posted by Scott King:
What a nonsense argument!
Hillary was vilified, demonized! Of course Hillary was a terrible candidate. I can only think of one other candidate so disliked and that's Trump.

Hillary got more votes than Trump because of Trump. The voters weren't voting for Hillary they were voting against Don. Likewise the voters in some measure voter against Biden and so elected Trump.

I know I ain't that old, but I've never seen anything like it. Both Hillary and Harris were run as an agenda or to appease a fringe or something. Neither of those two have any appeal to the average American.

This!

Absolutely correct.
Its hard to understand how, after all this time and the examples set, that its even an argument.

They bury their heads in the sand and repeat the propaganda to themselves. "Hillary won, Hillary won, Hillary won!".

"Stolen election, Stolen election, Stolen election!".

And lucky for us, how wonderful for us all, the news media is now entirely editorial and opinion. "Gutfield!" and Rachel Maddow tell the nation how to think and America slurps it up .
Despicable.

quote:

Originally posted by wymple:
That mantra being pushed on here that the dems need better candidates is a fallacy, and a stupid one at that. trump is so god damned dumb that anybody is a better candidate. What we need isn't better candidates, we need voters, as Saeed has openly stated, that are not brain dead stupid. trump just stated that the US does very little business with Canada, who is our biggest buyer of American goods. Carney had to school him. Only 3 1/2 months in, he's ruining ag exports, the auto industry, tourism, the stock market, you name it. And he's telling us it's going to be good for us to suffer. Maybe 2 Barbie dolls instead of 20 or 30. How about maybe 2 rifles instead of your collections?

Yes, the other guy is a turd, but the Dems still can't beat him. The stupid argument is that the Dems should keep doing what they have been and keep on losing.

Trump, Trump, Trump....he is bad, does not win elections and certainly not the EC. You really cannot see that? Really? Field a candidate with appeal beyond the coasts and those firmly entrenched on the far left of the political spectrum and you can win.

Want more proof Harris was a terrible candidate? She did not improve on Biden's number in a single county in the US or with a single demographic group, not even black women. That is not Trump's fault....

quote:

Originally posted by Scott King:

quote:

Originally posted by shankspony:

quote:

Originally posted by Scott King:
What a nonsense argument!
Hillary was vilified, demonized! Of course Hillary was a terrible candidate. I can only think of one other candidate so disliked and that's Trump.

Hillary got more votes than Trump because of Trump. The voters weren't voting for Hillary they were voting against Don. Likewise the voters in some measure voter against Biden and so elected Trump.

I know I ain't that old, but I've never seen anything like it. Both Hillary and Harris were run as an agenda or to appease a fringe or something. Neither of those two have any appeal to the average American.

This!

Absolutely correct.
Its hard to understand how, after all this time and the examples set, that its even an argument.

They bury their heads in the sand and repeat the propaganda to themselves. "Hillary won, Hillary won, Hillary won!".

"Stolen election, Stolen election, Stolen election!".

And lucky for us, how wonderful for us all, the news media is now entirely editorial and opinion. "Gutfield!" and Rachel Maddow tell the nation how to think and America slurps it up .
Despicable.

The media bit... Its not just a US thing, Ill try find a clip tomorrow of a politician giving a NZ presenter an honest answer, and the look on her face.... well its telling.

We really need a media school and oath like doctors take, to teach them the importance of being able to present fact and just fact.
And while im started, fucking reporters who have no idea what they are reporting on and so let someone with an agenda lie to them without calling them on it and lending the lie legitimacy.

Dumb ideas. Thats the problem. Defund the police is a dumb idea. Homeless drug markets are a dumb idea. Like it or not that’s what Democrats stand for. I don’t care who you run dumb ideas always lose.

quote:

Originally posted by tomahawker:
Dumb ideas. Thats the problem. Defund the police is a dumb idea. Homeless drug markets are a dumb idea. Like it or not that’s what Democrats stand for. I don’t care who you run dumb ideas always lose.

Tariffs, attacking your allies, embracing Putin.....all dumb ideas and that dumb ass Trump did win. Sometimes dumb ideas come out the winner, just look at the OJ and his cult of followers, like you Tomahawker.

quote:

Originally posted by wymple:
That mantra being pushed on here that the dems need better candidates is a fallacy, and a stupid one at that. trump is so god damned dumb that anybody is a better candidate. What we need isn't better candidates, we need voters, as Saeed has openly stated, that are not brain dead stupid. trump just stated that the US does very little business with Canada, who is our biggest buyer of American goods. Carney had to school him. Only 3 1/2 months in, he's ruining ag exports, the auto industry, tourism, the stock market, you name it. And he's telling us it's going to be good for us to suffer. Maybe 2 Barbie dolls instead of 20 or 30. How about maybe 2 rifles instead of your collections?

Weird, I guess math is hard?
2016 dems had more popular votes
2020 same story.. 81 plus million voters
2024 dems had more votes than 2016, but not ar 2020 levels

Dems need voters that aren't so racist and sexist that they show up for the party candidate

Of, I could kick sand that Harris was the party elites but not better by a vote

But if you believe the first part of your posts, dems won't win another general

quote:

Originally posted by Steve Bertram:

quote:

Originally posted by tomahawker:
Dumb ideas. Thats the problem. Defund the police is a dumb idea. Homeless drug markets are a dumb idea. Like it or not that’s what Democrats stand for. I don’t care who you run dumb ideas always lose.

Tariffs, attacking your allies, embracing Putin.....all dumb ideas and that dumb ass Trump did win. Sometimes dumb ideas come out the winner, just look at the OJ and his cult of followers, like you Tomahawker.

This is a delightful pair of paragraphs, highlighting the 2024 election to exquisite perfection.
As Hunter Thompson said, as long as we are willing to vote for the lesser of two evils, the evils will get worse.

No shit, Sherlock...

quote:

Originally posted by Mike Mitchell:
Right. Let's vote for the guy that tried to overturn the result of a general election through lies and fraud. The guy convicted of 34 felonies. The guy who fucks hookers and porn stars while his wife is pregnant with his son. The guy who is now talking about running for a third term in contravention of the Constitution. The guy who literally....literally....lies every single time he speaks.

That's clearly the more qualified guy.

Some of you knuckleheads defy belief.

You sound envious of a guy that chases poontang, but still has the company of one of the most beautiful women on the planet Get over it!

Well, on the plus side, the women who hang out with Trump wear more makeup and are generally better looking than those who tied in with Charles Manson.

quote:

Originally posted by TomP:

quote:

Originally posted by Steve Bertram:

quote:

Originally posted by tomahawker:
Dumb ideas. Thats the problem. Defund the police is a dumb idea. Homeless drug markets are a dumb idea. Like it or not that’s what Democrats stand for. I don’t care who you run dumb ideas always lose.

Tariffs, attacking your allies, embracing Putin.....all dumb ideas and that dumb ass Trump did win. Sometimes dumb ideas come out the winner, just look at the OJ and his cult of followers, like you Tomahawker.

This is a delightful pair of paragraphs, highlighting the 2024 election to exquisite perfection.
As Hunter Thompson said, as long as we are willing to vote for the lesser of two evils, the evils will get worse.

No shit, Sherlock...

Enlighten us please, who was in the race that could have won and was worthy of a vote? Like many, I didn't see either candidate as worthy. I did see one as a threat to the Constitution though.

quote:

Originally posted by wymple:
That mantra being pushed on here that the dems need better candidates is a fallacy, and a stupid one at that. trump is so god damned dumb that anybody is a better candidate. What we need isn't better candidates, we need voters, as Saeed has openly stated, that are not brain dead stupid. trump just stated that the US does very little business with Canada, who is our biggest buyer of American goods. Carney had to school him. Only 3 1/2 months in, he's ruining ag exports, the auto industry, tourism, the stock market, you name it. And he's telling us it's going to be good for us to suffer. Maybe 2 Barbie dolls instead of 20 or 30. How about maybe 2 rifles instead of your collections?

2 rifles is plenty for me right now.

We are more of a want based economy than a need based economy. The only thing required to get something if you want it is the means [usually money] to get it.

quote:

Want more proof Harris was a terrible candidate? She did not improve on Biden's number in a single county in the US or with a single demographic group, not even black women. That is not Trump's fault....

Like I sais, Saeed has told you, & more than once. Americans are politically stupid, racist, & brain dead, which explains trump.

quote:

Originally posted by wymple:

quote:

Want more proof Harris was a terrible candidate? She did not improve on Biden's number in a single county in the US or with a single demographic group, not even black women. That is not Trump's fault....

Like I sais, Saeed has told you, & more than once. Americans are politically stupid, racist, & brain dead, which explains trump.

Odd, it was Harris that lost votes for dems fron 2020 to 2024..

If dems had just shown up, in the same number, not a single 1 more, she would have won.

Sweep your own porch first

I think Harris was a bad candidate but I also think that 2024 was an aberration. Biden's mental disintegration and late abdication didn't leave any time for any sort of process in relation to choosing the candidate.

That said, it was an easy choice for me. I don't vote for misogynistic lying seditionists, no matter which political party they associate with.

quote:

Originally posted by wymple:

quote:

Want more proof Harris was a terrible candidate? She did not improve on Biden's number in a single county in the US or with a single demographic group, not even black women. That is not Trump's fault....

Like I sais, Saeed has told you, & more than once. Americans are politically stupid, racist, & brain dead, which explains trump.

Yeah...such wisdom from a part of the world that has only Kings..no Queens

Keep on in that vein and nothing will change for the better.

Trump is not what I think of as a leader.

I didn’t vote for him because of that.

Harris was equally undeserving of a vote to me.

If Trump keeps making messes, it may not matter who the Dems run, a whacko leftist may well beat the GOP. Maybe not as well. If as a democrat you want to win, the best guarantor is a moderate candidate who has personal and public charisma. Same goes to the GOP.

The GOP usually has more moderate candidates than the democrat, but usually has less appeal than the democrats.

quote:

Originally posted by wymple:

quote:

Want more proof Harris was a terrible candidate? She did not improve on Biden's number in a single county in the US or with a single demographic group, not even black women. That is not Trump's fault....

Like I sais, Saeed has told you, & more than once. Americans are politically stupid, racist, & brain dead, which explains trump.

quote:

Originally posted by Steve Bertram:

quote:

Originally posted by TomP:

quote:

Originally posted by Steve Bertram:

quote:

Originally posted by tomahawker:
Dumb ideas. Thats the problem. Defund the police is a dumb idea. Homeless drug markets are a dumb idea. Like it or not that’s what Democrats stand for. I don’t care who you run dumb ideas always lose.

Tariffs, attacking your allies, embracing Putin.....all dumb ideas and that dumb ass Trump did win. Sometimes dumb ideas come out the winner, just look at the OJ and his cult of followers, like you Tomahawker.

This is a delightful pair of paragraphs, highlighting the 2024 election to exquisite perfection.
As Hunter Thompson said, as long as we are willing to vote for the lesser of two evils, the evils will get worse.

No shit, Sherlock...

Enlighten us please, who was in the race that could have won and was worthy of a vote? Like many, I didn't see either candidate as worthy. I did see one as a threat to the Constitution though.

The two paragraphs nicely detail the negatives of both candidates, which is what I hoped to say.
I may not have written well enough to get the point across, did not see either as a candidate of choice.
I voted Libertarian as usual, not that I was pleased with their candidate, and mostly Republican for local and state offices.

quote:

Originally posted by crbutler:
Keep on in that vein and nothing will change for the better.

Trump is not what I think of as a leader.

I didn’t vote for him because of that.

Harris was equally undeserving of a vote to me.

If Trump keeps making messes, it may not matter who the Dems run, a whacko leftist may well beat the GOP. Maybe not as well. If as a democrat you want to win, the best guarantor is a moderate candidate who has personal and public charisma. Same goes to the GOP.

The GOP usually has more moderate candidates than the democrat, but usually has less appeal than the democrats.

quote:

Originally posted by wymple:

quote:

Want more proof Harris was a terrible candidate? She did not improve on Biden's number in a single county in the US or with a single demographic group, not even black women. That is not Trump's fault....

Like I sais, Saeed has told you, & more than once. Americans are politically stupid, racist, & brain dead, which explains trump.

Moderate?

Permit the Executive to ignore mandated due process.

Permit states to criminalize consensual sex between adults.

Permit the Executive to destroy our post WWII position and allies.


Permit states to void marriages between consenting adults.

Permit legislatures to replace medical science with mob passion against a group of people that do not harm them.

Permit our national security to be compromised by the unfit, boat kickers that are in pls e only to be yes men.


Permit the Executive to mislead the courts, and ignore the orders of the federal courts.

Permit a man who engaged in a plan to prevent the due and peaceful transition of power to his duly elected opponent.

Permit an Executive who ran on fear of citizens losing a standard of living who is single handily destroying folks standard of living.

Permit an Executive to empower Russian territorial aggression.

Permit an Executive you strike citizenship from an e tire group of citizens through an Executive Order voiding the Constitution as amended by the 14th Amendment and applied by the S. Ct.

Meanwhile, India and Pakistan are shooting at one another again.


Moderate? Hardly. I will not vote for a GOP candidate that has any engagement, service, anchor to the above. I’ll vote for the major party candidate that will prevent the above.

Moderate, only in fiction.

quote:

Originally posted by LHeym500:

quote:

Originally posted by crbutler:
Keep on in that vein and nothing will change for the better.

Trump is not what I think of as a leader.

I didn’t vote for him because of that.

Harris was equally undeserving of a vote to me.

If Trump keeps making messes, it may not matter who the Dems run, a whacko leftist may well beat the GOP. Maybe not as well. If as a democrat you want to win, the best guarantor is a moderate candidate who has personal and public charisma. Same goes to the GOP.

The GOP usually has more moderate candidates than the democrat, but usually has less appeal than the democrats.

quote:

Originally posted by wymple:

quote:

Want more proof Harris was a terrible candidate? She did not improve on Biden's number in a single county in the US or with a single demographic group, not even black women. That is not Trump's fault....

Like I sais, Saeed has told you, & more than once. Americans are politically stupid, racist, & brain dead, which explains trump.

Moderate?

Permit the Executive to ignore mandated due process.

Permit states to criminalize consensual sex between adults.

Permit the Executive to destroy our post WWII position and allies.


Permit states to void marriages between consenting adults.

Permit legislatures to replace medical science with mob passion against a group of people that do not harm them.

Permit our national security to be compromised by the unfit, boat kickers that are in pls e only to be yes men.


Permit the Executive to mislead the courts, and ignore the orders of the federal courts.

Permit a man who engaged in a plan to prevent the due and peaceful transition of power to his duly elected opponent.

Permit an Executive who ran on fear of citizens losing a standard of living who is single handily destroying folks standard of living.

Permit an Executive to empower Russian territorial aggression.

Permit an Executive you strike citizenship from an e tire group of citizens through an Executive Order voiding the Constitution as amended by the 14th Amendment and applied by the S. Ct.

Meanwhile, India and Pakistan are shooting at one another again.


Moderate? Hardly. I will not vote for a GOP candidate that has any engagement, service, anchor to the above. I’ll vote for the major party candidate that will prevent the above.

Moderate, only in fiction.

Does your wife know you are "in the closet"????

It is okay Jtex. We know you are attracted and threaten by the concept of gay men. I’m sorry I cannot fulfill that for you.

We know you cannot form an argument on the merits. That Texas education.

Oh, you did not answer NN’s question being did you engage sub contractors that used undocumented, illegal labor?

Yes, Jtex, I will not with silence allow you and people like you to destroy and legally isolate these citizens. That count as much as you do under the law. That is fragile.

As a class, they count more than you morally.

quote:

Originally posted by LHeym500:
It is okay Jtex. We know you are attracted and threaten by the concept of gay men. I’m sorry I cannot fulfill that for you.

We know you cannot form an argument on the merits. That Texas education.

Oh, you did not answer NN’s question being did you engage sub contractors that used undocumented, illegal labor?

Yes, Jtex, I will not with silence allow you and people like you to destroy and legally isolate these citizens. That count as much as you do under the law. That is fragile.

As a class, they count more than you morally.

Jtex was a subcontractor. I'd find it unusual to say the least for a subcontractor to hire a subcontractor.

He's said several times that he's not hired illegals. You've not made the case with your insinuations that he's lying.

quote:

Originally posted by LHeym500:

quote:

Originally posted by crbutler:
Keep on in that vein and nothing will change for the better.

Trump is not what I think of as a leader.

I didn’t vote for him because of that.

Harris was equally undeserving of a vote to me.

If Trump keeps making messes, it may not matter who the Dems run, a whacko leftist may well beat the GOP. Maybe not as well. If as a democrat you want to win, the best guarantor is a moderate candidate who has personal and public charisma. Same goes to the GOP.

The GOP usually has more moderate candidates than the democrat, but usually has less appeal than the democrats.

Moderate?

Permit the Executive to ignore mandated due process.

Permit states to criminalize consensual sex between adults.

Permit the Executive to destroy our post WWII position and allies.


Permit states to void marriages between consenting adults.

Permit legislatures to replace medical science with mob passion against a group of people that do not harm them.

Permit our national security to be compromised by the unfit, boat kickers that are in pls e only to be yes men.


Permit the Executive to mislead the courts, and ignore the orders of the federal courts.

Permit a man who engaged in a plan to prevent the due and peaceful transition of power to his duly elected opponent.

Permit an Executive who ran on fear of citizens losing a standard of living who is single handily destroying folks standard of living.

Permit an Executive to empower Russian territorial aggression.

Permit an Executive you strike citizenship from an e tire group of citizens through an Executive Order voiding the Constitution as amended by the 14th Amendment and applied by the S. Ct.

Meanwhile, India and Pakistan are shooting at one another again.


Moderate? Hardly. I will not vote for a GOP candidate that has any engagement, service, anchor to the above. I’ll vote for the major party candidate that will prevent the above.

Moderate, only in fiction.

Well said, LHeym.

I was wondering what "moderate" means to these quasi/pseudo-RINO's?

Boil it down - would any of them EVER vote for a Dem, charismatic, moderate, him/her, or whatever?

What if a Dem candidate identified his/her self and platform as moderate, measured specifically in opposition to and prevention of the above?

After all, one good definition of a moderate candidate is one who is in opposition to radical.

For example, here's a moderate democrat candidate:

https://youtu.be/QURiSDjBeAc?si=LKukzRNm9bOLgBMO&t=54

The special part starts at about 2:18

May 7, 2025
At today's House DOGE Committee hearing, Rep. Jasmine Crockett (D-TX) questioned Fatima Goss Graves, President and Chief Executive Officer of the National Women’s Law Center, and hinted that Rep. Marjorie Taylor Greene (D-GA) committed insider trading, leading to a pause to see if her words should be taken down.

If moderate meant not in favor of free drugs and homeless encampments. If it meant in favor of running government without a deficit. If it meant someone who saw the value of real, productive work and business. If it meant someone who did not believe in revising history or besmirching ancestors because of the color of their skin or national origin. If it meant someone who believed in enabling business by eliminating onerous regulation.
If moderate meant someone who did feel it to be necessary to kowtow to a minor percentage of the population whose sexual orientation is outside the norm. If it meant someone who believed in the right of people to keep and bear arms. If it meant someone who believed felons should be in jail.
In other words, if a moderate meant someone with common sense values, yeah, I'd vote for them, even if they had a (D) behind their name. Regards, Bill

quote:

eliminating onerous regulation

Regulations are always onerous to someone, depending on one's attitude towards the social contract.

There are lots of moderates who believe felons should be in jail rather than in the WH. Are there any republicans who are moderate enough to agree?

quote:

Originally posted by Bill Leeper:
If moderate meant not in favor of free drugs and homeless encampments. If it meant in favor of running government without a deficit. If it meant someone who saw the value of real, productive work and business. If it meant someone who did not believe in revising history or besmirching ancestors because of the color of their skin or national origin. If it meant someone who believed in enabling business by eliminating onerous regulation.
If moderate meant someone who did feel it to be necessary to kowtow to a minor percentage of the population whose sexual orientation is outside the norm. If it meant someone who believed in the right of people to keep and bear arms. If it meant someone who believed felons should be in jail.
In other words, if a moderate meant someone with common sense values, yeah, I'd vote for them, even if they had a (D) behind their name. Regards, Bill

Me too. Meanwhile, I'll keep voting libertarian

DOGE is feeling some heat.

The RNC is sending out emails asking, “ Do you still support DOGE?”

I Never did.

That minor percentage of the population ate 100 percent US Citizens. No one ever can see themselves in the minority.

Technically, the Texas law Lawrence invalidated made hetro sex acts illegal too.

Apparently neither of you read what I wrote.

I said that a moderate with charisma is the best guarantor of either party winning. Note that I never said Trump was a moderate. This kind of defines what some term as “TDS” in that everything is somehow Trump.

Trump won not by being the moderate. He won by being much more charismatic to the voters (note that Hitler was charismatic as well… it’s an attribute, not a qualification).

The Dems have won with very liberal people by either having the opposition running a bad candidate, having extraneous situations causing that to be desired, and by the charisma factor being sufficient.

Certainly the democrats could beat the GOP next cycle with a whacko liberal… because Trump may have poisoned the electorate against him.

We need to break the cycle of ever worsening partisan candidates.

I was prepared to vote for a democrat. I have voted for democrats in the past, although I admit that affiliation with that party is a strike against a candidate in my book. I still feel I am voting for an individual, not a party.

quote:

Originally posted by Magine Enigam:

quote:

Originally posted by LHeym500:

quote:

Originally posted by crbutler:
Keep on in that vein and nothing will change for the better.

Trump is not what I think of as a leader.

I didn’t vote for him because of that.

Harris was equally undeserving of a vote to me.

If Trump keeps making messes, it may not matter who the Dems run, a whacko leftist may well beat the GOP. Maybe not as well. If as a democrat you want to win, the best guarantor is a moderate candidate who has personal and public charisma. Same goes to the GOP.

The GOP usually has more moderate candidates than the democrat, but usually has less appeal than the democrats.

Moderate?

Permit the Executive to ignore mandated due process.

Permit states to criminalize consensual sex between adults.

Permit the Executive to destroy our post WWII position and allies.


Permit states to void marriages between consenting adults.

Permit legislatures to replace medical science with mob passion against a group of people that do not harm them.

Permit our national security to be compromised by the unfit, boat kickers that are in pls e only to be yes men.


Permit the Executive to mislead the courts, and ignore the orders of the federal courts.

Permit a man who engaged in a plan to prevent the due and peaceful transition of power to his duly elected opponent.

Permit an Executive who ran on fear of citizens losing a standard of living who is single handily destroying folks standard of living.

Permit an Executive to empower Russian territorial aggression.

Permit an Executive you strike citizenship from an e tire group of citizens through an Executive Order voiding the Constitution as amended by the 14th Amendment and applied by the S. Ct.

Meanwhile, India and Pakistan are shooting at one another again.


Moderate? Hardly. I will not vote for a GOP candidate that has any engagement, service, anchor to the above. I’ll vote for the major party candidate that will prevent the above.

Moderate, only in fiction.

Well said, LHeym.

I was wondering what "moderate" means to these quasi/pseudo-RINO's?

Boil it down - would any of them EVER vote for a Dem, charismatic, moderate, him/her, or whatever?

What if a Dem candidate identified his/her self and platform as moderate, measured specifically in opposition to and prevention of the above?

After all, one good definition of a moderate candidate is one who is in opposition to radical.

For example, here's a moderate democrat candidate:

https://youtu.be/QURiSDjBeAc?si=LKukzRNm9bOLgBMO&t=54

The special part starts at about 2:18

May 7, 2025
At today's House DOGE Committee hearing, Rep. Jasmine Crockett (D-TX) questioned Fatima Goss Graves, President and Chief Executive Officer of the National Women’s Law Center, and hinted that Rep. Marjorie Taylor Greene (D-GA) committed insider trading, leading to a pause to see if her words should be taken down.

You said the GOP was more moderate. Hence, my response.

Moderate the GOP is not.

I actually read what you wrote doc. The gop has more moderate candidates. Not that they are moderates. As in, more moderates available to choose from than the dems.
Better stick to pricing eggs, junior.

If only Trump was held to such a high standard.

know what I mean Tony?

I would disagree with the doctor's statement. I don't see too many GOP moderates running since the orange turd came to town.

quote:

Originally posted by crbutler:
Apparently neither of you read what I wrote.

I said that a moderate with charisma is the best guarantor of either party winning. Note that I never said Trump was a moderate. This kind of defines what some term as “TDS” in that everything is somehow Trump.

Trump won not by being the moderate. He won by being much more charismatic to the voters (note that Hitler was charismatic as well… it’s an attribute, not a qualification).

The Dems have won with very liberal people by either having the opposition running a bad candidate, having extraneous situations causing that to be desired, and by the charisma factor being sufficient.

Certainly the democrats could beat the GOP next cycle with a whacko liberal… because Trump may have poisoned the electorate against him.

We need to break the cycle of ever worsening partisan candidates.

I was prepared to vote for a democrat. I have voted for democrats in the past, although I admit that affiliation with that party is a strike against a candidate in my book. I still feel I am voting for an individual, not a party.

"moderate with charisma"

Now that's an interesting combination.

Definition:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charisma#External_links

Charisma (/kəˈrɪzmə/) is a personal quality of magnetic charm, persuasion, or appeal.[1]

In the fields of sociology and political science, psychology, and management, the term charismatic describes a type of leadership.[2][3]

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Trump's "type" of leadership and charisma won the election.

That's so far different from what's generally considered "moderate" that I can't imagine those who found and still find Trump's type of charisma to be less favored given a moderate choice.

IOW, Trump voters wanted what he said he offered, which ain't moderate. It's radical.

I have no idea how many self-deemed "conservatives" are reasonable, but I haven't seen enough evidence to be encouraged. I see rationalizations like your posts.

I think you are BSing yourself and us.

Not really, what high standard are you talking about?
As to docs claim. You may not see many gop moderates. But he said "more" not any set number.

quote:

Originally posted by theback40:
I actually read what you wrote doc. The gop has more moderate candidates. Not that they are moderates. As in, more moderates available to choose from than the dems.
Better stick to pricing eggs, junior.

Too bad it just ain’t so. The GOP moderates are trying to be run away. Some of us just refuse.
You want me to send you a photo of egg prices on the shelf? Just send me your email.

quote:

Originally posted by theback40:
Not really, what high standard are you talking about?
As to docs claim. You may not see many gop moderates. But he said "more" not any set number.

Really? Trump's lies constantly, Jeffe is the very first one to jump up and defend those lies, and then you come along telling us how Jeffe is not biased.

It most circles, that is known as

WTF are you smoking steve?
I was talking about doc butlers post, hence I said "I know what doc was saying".
Where does jeffe come into docs post?
No wonder I had no idea what you were taking about, you dont know what you are talking about.

I do know what I'm talking about and I think you do as well.

The conversation turned to holding people accountable for lying....many of you have zero problems with Trump lying, especially Jeffe and you have commented in the past about how Jeffe is not biased. He is biased and LOVES to try to support Trump's lies.

And I don't think you are that slow.

As long as the democrats keep doing what they are doing?!!! Im happy!!!!