The logic is herd immunity.

There are a small group of folks with legitimate issues- immune deficiency where even if vaccinated they are not immune, the subgroup who actually have a life threatening reaction to the vaccine, etc.

Also even if you are immune yourself, a sick exposure can mean you transmit to others who are not (like newborns at home, or family members who are getting chemo)- the window is very small, but there.

That’s the logic of why everyone should be immunized who can be. “Public safety”.

Of course, the eugenics people made similar arguments.

Another point is that all vaccines are limited by the level of immune response you give. Typically, you are totally immune for a time, and then you become less immune, but as your immune memory cells are there, they ramp your immune system up and you can get a mild or subclinical case, although heavy exposure often can give you the disease despite having been vaccinated- just is usually much less severe. So, you get the flu shot and you get the flu- just not as bad as you would have without it.

The reason the flu shot isn’t one and done is like Covid the virus changes over time and the immunity isn’t effective.

Thank you for the insight Doctor, I appreciate that.


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I ran across this today. Not sure how legit it is. It is out of Canada though.

I absolutely do not believe that statistic for tetanus. also, the issue with polio might not have been death but permanent disability. Measles was and is a relatively innocuous disease; except when it isn't.
Ultimately, I think this is a bullshit list, put forth by a group with an agenda. I like to make my choices from a position of knowledge, and I'm not finding it in this list.
I have no problem requesting a tetanus booster every few years. I suffer puncture wounds, from nails, barbed wire, sticks and thorns, on a regular basis. Tetanus can be deadly. Regards, Bill

quote:

Originally posted by Bill Leeper:
I absolutely do not believe that statistic for tetanus. also, the issue with polio might not have been death but permanent disability. Measles was and is a relatively innocuous disease; except when it isn't.
Ultimately, I think this is a bullshit list, put forth by a group with an agenda. I like to make my choices from a position of knowledge, and I'm not finding it in this list.
I have no problem requesting a tetanus booster every few years. I suffer puncture wounds, from nails, barbed wire, sticks and thorns, on a regular basis. Tetanus can be deadly. Regards, Bill

Agreed.

The reason the odds of death by disease are so low is because of the vaccines in many cases.

If you get tetanus, the death rate is very high- over 90%… but very few get the disease.

It’s an incorrect use of statistics.

Polio is a very high death/disability disease. It’s been essentially eradicated- this the 1:1 trillion “death rate” quoted… but not quite right. There are still people dying of post polio syndrome who got polio before the vaccine was widely available.

That’s not to say there are not adverse incidents with the vaccines. There are. It’s all risk/benefit analysis as to is it worth it.

Colonoscopy has risks. But colon cancer is relatively common and a very nasty way to die.

Measles is a relatively innocuous disease in the young usually… in the adult population it is not.

quote:

Originally posted by crbutler:
The reason the odds of death by disease are so low is because of the vaccines in many cases.

If you get tetanus, the death rate is very high- over 90%… but very few get the disease.

It’s an incorrect use of statistics.

Polio is a very high death/disability disease. It’s been essentially eradicated- this the 1:1 trillion “death rate” quoted… but not quite right. There are still people dying of post polio syndrome who got polio before the vaccine was widely available.

That’s not to say there are not adverse incidents with the vaccines. There are. It’s all risk/benefit analysis as to is it worth it.

Colonoscopy has risks. But colon cancer is relatively common and a very nasty way to die.

Measles is a relatively innocuous disease in the young usually… in the adult population it is not.

doc, you could have just said "correlation isn't causation" .. when you are in the "bips" or less for a VAER issue, it's pretty safe --

and i want to extend your remarks, with my idiosyncratic PoV on the flue shot -

"the flu" isn't - it's several species of the influenza genus, and "the flu shot" is USUALLY made from the prevailing stain from "last year" - and is usually wrong (see novavax for a better approach) -- and while you are "correct" that a super abundance of contagion CAN cause inflection/carrier, it's exceedingly rare - - anyway, i do not take a flue shot, as i am ill for 3-4 days post treatment, 100% of the time, and IF i get the flu, i am ill for 3-5 days, 100% - but i rarely get the flu, and i choose not to get the shot, as 100% of the time, i get sick .. my immune system works -- AND influenza has greatly attenuated (so has covid) since the days of it being a death sentence to get the flu


i am all for vax for life and quality of life threatening diseases ... polio, small pox, and HPV for examples - even making it mandatory -

Actually, the flu vaccine is the same flu season just using data from emerging areas for new strains- usually the far east. Thus the need for international cooperation.

It is a guessing game trying to pick the 3-4 strains they think will be the big ones here. Some years they are right, some years wrong.

It’s not species, but rather antigen markers that get the strains labeled.

The flu isn’t quite as rapidly changing as Coronaviruses.

Been getting flu shot since 2018 when I had flu that tied me down to bed for 3 weeks and I felt like it’s gonna kill me
Just got one this year and ready to travel through the Fall to hunt various places here and overseas
One of the Reasons of course is not to get miserable somewhere else and another reason is if I get it, it’ll be milder symptoms

quote:

Originally posted by crbutler:
Actually, the flu vaccine is the same flu season just using data from emerging areas for new strains- usually the far east. Thus the need for international cooperation.

It is a guessing game trying to pick the 3-4 strains they think will be the big ones here. Some years they are right, some years wrong.

It’s not species, but rather antigen markers that get the strains labeled.

The flu isn’t quite as rapidly changing as Coronaviruses.

Doc, you and I quibbling over antigen vs protein markers is a good conversation between those "in the know" most everyone knows what a species/subspecies is

quote:

Originally posted by Aspen Hill Adventures:
I ran across this today. Not sure how legit it is. It is out of Canada though.

If you get the "live virus" vaccination your risk of exposure is 100%. What is the likelihood that you will be exposed to "any" of those diseases/infections during your normal daily activities/routines, etc.? I can't imagine that my exposure to polio is of even the slightest concern. At my age I don't give a rat's ass about possible exposure to radon either.

quote:

Originally posted by ANTELOPEDUNDEE:

quote:

Originally posted by Aspen Hill Adventures:
I ran across this today. Not sure how legit it is. It is out of Canada though.

If you get the "live virus" vaccination your risk of exposure is 100%. What is the likelihood that you will be exposed to "any" of those diseases/infections during your normal daily activities/routines, etc.? I can't imagine that my exposure to polio is of even the slightest concern. At my age I don't give a rat's a$$ about possible exposure to radon either.

"live virus" hasn't been used in a century - the last was cow pox, which creates a like response to small pox -

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
"live virus" hasn't been used in a century - the last was cow pox, which creates a like response to small pox -

Awhile back, there was an article about a gene-edited cowpox virus that was going to be a treatment for pancreatic cancer. No recent news on that, don't know if it went anywhere.

quote:

Originally posted by TomP:

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
"live virus" hasn't been used in a century - the last was cow pox, which creates a like response to small pox -

Awhile back, there was an article about a gene-edited cowpox virus that was going to be a treatment for pancreatic cancer. No recent news on that, don't know if it went anywhere.

Doc says "antigen" bc he is a doctor, i say proteins bc i am a microbiologist (bio chemist, technically but the difference is without measurement), it means the same. Sure they could edit cowpox (weirdly, I was invited to be the ciso for CRISPR) and trigger a phased response to both the pox and subsequently the secondary proteins carried by editing cowpox. I can't speak to the efficacy or efficiency without having the lab data

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:

quote:

Originally posted by ANTELOPEDUNDEE:

quote:

Originally posted by Aspen Hill Adventures:
I ran across this today. Not sure how legit it is. It is out of Canada though.

If you get the "live virus" vaccination your risk of exposure is 100%. What is the likelihood that you will be exposed to "any" of those diseases/infections during your normal daily activities/routines, etc.? I can't imagine that my exposure to polio is of even the slightest concern. At my age I don't give a rat's a$$ about possible exposure to radon either.

"live virus" hasn't been used in a century - the last was cow pox, which creates a like response to small pox -

Regardless of type, vaccination guarantees exposure to something that will elicit a response. My chances of contracting something like polio are very very slim just from doing my everyday business. If you vaccinate enough people eventually some of them will react very negatively. Sort of like drugs. I take Lyrica/PreGabalin which is basically a wonder drug for me with just one side effect. Others have terrible reactions to it including difficulty in getting off of it in ways which work for most people. I don't know if COVID vaccines really worked for me, but I don't recall getting it.

quote:

Originally posted by ANTELOPEDUNDEE:

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:

quote:

Originally posted by ANTELOPEDUNDEE:

quote:

Originally posted by Aspen Hill Adventures:
I ran across this today. Not sure how legit it is. It is out of Canada though.

If you get the "live virus" vaccination your risk of exposure is 100%. What is the likelihood that you will be exposed to "any" of those diseases/infections during your normal daily activities/routines, etc.? I can't imagine that my exposure to polio is of even the slightest concern. At my age I don't give a rat's a$$ about possible exposure to radon either.

"live virus" hasn't been used in a century - the last was cow pox, which creates a like response to small pox -

Regardless of type, vaccination guarantees exposure to something that will elicit a response. My chances of contracting something like polio are very very slim just from doing my everyday business. If you vaccinate enough people eventually some of them will react very negatively. Sort of like drugs. I take Lyrica/PreGabalin which is basically a wonder drug for me with just one side effect. Others have terrible reactions to it including difficulty in getting off of it in ways which work for most people. I don't know if COVID vaccines really worked for me, but I don't recall getting it.

you were correct all the way until you said covid vaccine - only the novavax covid vaccine works in this manner -- the clot shot was rna modifications to produce the same proteins, but not the same disease - it was a therapeutic -- requiring many boosters to maintain any efficacy -

and i had the more virulent version of the disease, which has a higher efficacy than the clot shot - until the genome was modified, through attenuation, that ones body sees it as a different thing -