Dr. Oz getting behind dropping vaccine mandates

04 September 2025, 08:08

JBrown

I’m a teacher who has worked in several states. Every state that I have worked in has “religious” exemptions for families that don’t want to immunize their children.

Florida is the same: all you have to do is submit a form that says that you have “sincere religious beliefs” that guide your vaccine reluctance.

This just seems like more political theater. What would dropping this requirement accomplish?

But it gives politicians a soapbox to stand on. Gives the opposition something to wring their hands about. Distracts us from more important matters…

Jason

"You're not hard-core, unless you live hard-core."
_______________________

Hunting in Africa is an adventure. The number of variables involved preclude the possibility of a perfect hunt. Some problems will arise. How you decide to handle them will determine how much you enjoy your hunt.

Just tell yourself, "it's all part of the adventure." Remember, if Robert Ruark had gotten upset every time problems with Harry
Selby's flat bed truck delayed the safari, Horn of the Hunter would have read like an indictment of Selby. But Ruark rolled with the punches, poured some gin, and enjoyed the adventure.

-Jason Brown

04 September 2025, 08:34

MJines

The tyranny of the minority. Now we let one kid with kook parents jeopardize the health of 29 of his/her classmates because some MAGA nut case wants to pander to the right fringe. Screw the right fringe. Put all the non-vaccinated kids in the same class and let them infect each other.

04 September 2025, 09:01

JBrown

quote:
Originally posted by MJines:
The tyranny of the minority. Now we let one kid with kook parents jeopardize the health of 29 of his/her classmates because some MAGA nut case wants to pander to the right fringe. Screw the right fringe.

Hey Mike, they already have “religious exemptions”. How many anti vaxers who have no religious beliefs are already exploiting this loophole?

How does removing the “mandates”(they aren’t really mandates because the exemption is a simple declaration) change anything?

Both parties have mastered keeping opposition voters focused on BS. It’s almost like the republicans are running cover, keeping the democratic voters occupied while the Democratic Party screws them. Same with the democrats running cover for the republicans.

04 September 2025, 09:20

MJines

Let the kids of the anti-vax crowd and the religious nut crowd share a classroom. The parents that acted responsibly and had their children vaccinated should not have their children placed at risk by the kook contingent.

04 September 2025, 09:25

Steve Ahrenberg

quote:
Originally posted by MJines:
Let the kids of the anti-vax crowd and the religious nut crowd share a classroom. The parents that acted responsibly and had their children vaccinated should not have their children placed at risk by the kook contingent.

You amuse me. Religious people are “nuts” but Trannys are normal. Try to sell that to Republican and Independent voters. All you and your party have left is freaks.

Consistency is the hobgoblin of the liberal mind.

04 September 2025, 09:47

MJines

. . . back to defending the anti-vax crew I see. Maybe Lane will send you a MAGA hat. Don’t want to take reasonable precautions to protect your children from disease, let them spend their time with the children of like-minded parents. No need to have anti-vax and religious nuts jeopardizing the health of normal kids. And if a transgender couple decide to adopt and not vax their kid, yes, let their kid share the classroom with the other non-vaxers and religious kooks.

04 September 2025, 16:52

Steve Bertram

Anti-vax, anti-science, anti-common sense....the new GOP.....what an embarrassment.

04 September 2025, 17:12

Bill/Oregon

I’m with you, Mike — and for the record I despise the Republican and Democratic parties with equal vehemence.

04 September 2025, 17:46

Steve Bertram

So tell us how removing vaccine mandates in schools is an improvement.....should be easy enough for you followers of the orange sage.

I'm sure somehow less vaccinated children in schools is an improvement, I just haven't heard how that is.

One of you with vast knowledge on how vaccines work, please explain.

04 September 2025, 19:12

Aspen Hill Adventures

If you have your vaccines then you are protected. So when someone else decides not to it's them who could get sick, if at all, right? So why would their decision to not vaxx bother you?

04 September 2025, 19:22

Saeed

Children in our schools must have certain vaccines or they are not allowed into class.

In our times, in 1950’s, doctors came to school to vaccinate us for things like small pox, chickenpox and so on.

Glad they did.

04 September 2025, 19:25

jeffeosso

quote:
Originally posted by Steve Bertram:
So tell us how removing vaccine mandates in schools is an improvement.....should be easy enough for you followers of the orange sage.

I'm sure somehow less vaccinated children in schools is an improvement, I just haven't heard how that is.

One of you with vast knowledge on how vaccines work, please explain.

Wasn't my point. Other than the clot shot, vaccines protect those vaccinated. You might recall that until the covid therapeutic, "anti-vax" was a hard core liberal movement. Recall Gwyneth P and the anti-vac/ vax cause autism movement.

While some vaccines time out, thats measured in years, if not decades, not days (aka boosters)

And 15+ million illegals not vaccinated for anything

I am a strong supporter of actual vaccines, having had kids. Those little petri dishes bring home enough things. I dont want my kids and grandkids subject to that. I firmly believe in the HPV vax, as it can be life saving

Oh, and there's "always" been a religious exception.

The comment was aimed at jines inferring that vaccinated kids would have failed vaccines from actual vaccines.

Discussing the immune system pathways would be a voice convo, as I ain't going to type out what can be found with a simple websearch.

30k vaers reports of adverse reactions up to death in the us alone for the covid "vax"

04 September 2025, 19:52

MJines

quote:
Originally posted by Steve Bertram:
Anti-vax, anti-science, anti-common sense....the new GOP.....what an embarrassment.

. . . and the MAGAts stand up and cheer . . . no wonder the Republican Party has become the repository of the uneducated rednecks voters.

04 September 2025, 20:53

Steve Ahrenberg

quote:
Originally posted by MJines:
quote:
Originally posted by Steve Bertram:
Anti-vax, anti-science, anti-common sense....the new GOP.....what an embarrassment.

. . . and the MAGAts stand up and cheer . . . no wonder the Republican Party has become the repository of the uneducated rednecks voters.

Again, I'm amused. You'd think someone with your obvious intelligence, would look back at all my previous posts on the subject. I never once claim, support or agree we should end mandated vaccines for "most" diseases.

My comments have 100% been that, you sophisticates, completely ignore an illegal population, many from third world countries, that have and are bringing back diseases we as a civilized population had beaten.

Why are you ignoring 15 million people who've no medical history here? Many from places that you and I travel to and NEED vaccines to go there.

Can you be intellectually honest to a dumb redneck please? I'm slow and need it repeated time and time again.

04 September 2025, 22:27

Steve Bertram

So, not a single Trumper can tell me how we are better off by dropping vaccine mandates in schools.

I thought so.

Thanks

04 September 2025, 22:41

crbutler

While we have had a vaccine mandate for years, the literature has shown an ever decreasing percentage of people up to date with vaccines.

We have folks claiming ever increasing adverse effects and requiring exemption. We have the above mentioned religious exemptions. We have the above mentioned illicit entry noncompliant people. We have folks who just plain avoid any medical interaction.

As I see it, while we have laws requiring vaccination, they are neither enforced nor have any real teeth to the laws as pertain to childhood vaccine. (Meaning I have never seen a school refuse to let a noncompliant child attend school.)

The experience with COVID shows how trying to enforce the mandates can be very fraught with peril. They are very open for overreach and scientific impropriety.

So as I see it, getting rid of the mandate actually reflects the actuality of how things are done in the real world.

As an aside, the folks who are now making statements about support also made statements (as I recall) disparaging the notion of herd immunity, which is the social contract element of vaccine mandates.

Personally, I think you are a fool if you deny the effectiveness of childhood vaccines.

There is always a risk with any medication. Vaccines are no exception. While well tolerated, that doesn’t make it any better if you are one with the adverse effect.

One way that might be reasonable to modify behavior would be reduced insurance rates for those who are vaccine compliant. Carrot rather than stick…

04 September 2025, 23:15

MJines

quote:
Originally posted by Steve Bertram:
So, not a single Trumper can tell me how we are better off by dropping vaccine mandates in schools.

I thought so.

Thanks

And when we see a resurgence in infectious diseases, child hospitalizations, etc., they will blame it on vaccine efficacy, Big Pharma, or some other scapegoat.

04 September 2025, 23:17

LHeym500

1900 18 percent of children does by age 5.

What changed? Vaccines.

In my family (adopted) cemetery is full of infants and toddlers.

04 September 2025, 23:24

crbutler

Vaccines helped… antibiotics helped…

The biggest effect was application of the scientific method to medical care and requirements of competence (licensure) to practice medicine.

Note that the last one has been under increasing attack over the last several decades.

04 September 2025, 23:26

Mike Mitchell

quote:
Originally posted by crbutler:
While we have had a vaccine mandate for years, the literature has shown an ever decreasing percentage of people up to date with vaccines.

We have folks claiming ever increasing adverse effects and requiring exemption. We have the above mentioned religious exemptions. We have the above mentioned illicit entry noncompliant people. We have folks who just plain avoid any medical interaction.

As I see it, while we have laws requiring vaccination, they are neither enforced nor have any real teeth to the laws as pertain to childhood vaccine. (Meaning I have never seen a school refuse to let a noncompliant child attend school.)

The experience with COVID shows how trying to enforce the mandates can be very fraught with peril. They are very open for overreach and scientific impropriety.

So as I see it, getting rid of the mandate actually reflects the actuality of how things are done in the real world.

As an aside, the folks who are now making statements about support also made statements (as I recall) disparaging the notion of herd immunity, which is the social contract element of vaccine mandates.

Personally, I think you are a fool if you deny the effectiveness of childhood vaccines.

There is always a risk with any medication. Vaccines are no exception. While well tolerated, that doesn’t make it any better if you are one with the adverse effect.

One way that might be reasonable to modify behavior would be reduced insurance rates for those who are vaccine compliant. Carrot rather than stick…

In the absence of an exemption, in Texas, and I'm pretty sure every other state in the US, a child's parents are required to provide a vaccination record in order to be enrolled in the school. I know I had to when my children were school age. Of course, that was before a former heroin addict whose brains have been eaten by worms was the Secretary of Health and Human Services.

And, a little research reveals that is still the law:

https://www.dshs.texas.gov/immunizations/school

04 September 2025, 23:40

jeffeosso

I was required to present my vax records every year here. I believe that for the older kids, it was an assertion rather than presenting the little card. Youngest required proof, but they were in private school.

04 September 2025, 23:47

crbutler

Then Mike, how is it that Texas has had school outbreaks of vaccine preventable illness that have been traced to unvaccinated children?

Yes, it’s the law.

It’s the law here.

I can’t begin to count the number of kids who are in school that are not properly vaccinated.

The reality is that large groups avoid following the rules yet don’t get removed from class.

Somehow I think I might know more about this than you.

04 September 2025, 23:47

Mike Mitchell

quote:
Originally posted by jeffeosso:
I was required to present my vax records every year here. I believe that for the older kids, it was an assertion rather than presenting the little card. Youngest required proof, but they were in private school.

The requirements change from grade to grade. When you returned to school the year after your parents presented vax records, it was unnecessary to do so again. All they needed to do was confirm you were enrolled last year, right?

04 September 2025, 23:51

Mike Mitchell

quote:
Originally posted by crbutler:
Then Mike, how is it that Texas has had school outbreaks of vaccine preventable illness that have been traced to unvaccinated children?

Yes, it’s the law.

It’s the law here.

I can’t begin to count the number of kids who are in school that are not properly vaccinated.

The reality is that large groups avoid following the rules yet don’t get removed from class.

Somehow I think I might know more about this than you.

You don't appear to. Did you read what I posted? No vax record, no enrollment. At least in Texas. 94% of kindergartners vaccinated in Texas. Maybe it's different in Minnesota.

And, there were no wide spread outbreaks in Texas. There were some isolated instances and gee, guess who it effected? the anti-vax whackjobs.

From the Texas DHS website:

>>>>Texas experienced a large measles outbreak in early 2025, primarily impacting unvaccinated children and adults within a close-knit community in West Texas. While two unvaccinated children died, hospitalization and cases were overwhelmingly concentrated among those not vaccinated against the highly contagious disease. The outbreak highlighted concerns about declining vaccination rates, particularly among certain communities, and the public health challenges of controlling measles without a public health emergency, according to the Texas Department of State Health Services (DSHS).

In Texas, school-age vaccination rates are varied, but the state's overall Kindergarten MMR (Measles, Mumps, Rubella) vaccination rate was 93.24% for the 2024-25 school year, the lowest since 2011, according to The Texas Tribune, citing CDC data. For the 2023-2024 school year, the state's official report showed 94.27% of Kindergartners were up-to-date on the DTaP vaccine. However, rates vary significantly by county, with some counties falling below 90% coverage, making them vulnerable to outbreaks like the one that occurred in West Texas.

05 September 2025, 00:10

crbutler

That’s the law… but how did those kids get in that you are minimizing?

When I had a pediatric population, the vast majority were not up to date.

Admittedly most had “some” vaccines, but were not complete, and did not return for completion of the shots.

Many use a “religious exemption” which isn’t really religious… they just don’t want their kid to do it, but no one can prove the religious aspect of this.

Also there are a bunch of kids whose parents claim a reaction to the vaccines and insist that their kid be exempted (a common one is “my kid got a fever and seizures from the vaccine!”) and the reaction is absolutely unverifiable (although in my mind, a kid having a seizure most all parents would take them to the ER, but these folks usually say that the kid was fine later, so they didn’t.). Vaccine reaction is considered a legally exempting reason.

All that these states are doing is saying that a form was presented.

It comes down to personal responsibility. Do you do what is best for the child or do you find a way around it?

The making parents lie to get their way is not socially good.

I’d rather have the parent say “no” and take responsibility than have to have a bogus false medical record made, and then when something bad happens, you know where it came from.

By the way, in many states chiropractors can fill out forms like these… but they cannot give vaccines…. What does that say?

05 September 2025, 00:45

Aspen Hill Adventures

quote:
Many use a “religious exemption” which isn’t really religious… they just don’t want their kid to do it, but no one can prove the religious aspect of this.

It's my understanding the objection is based on some vaxx (MMR) being developed from aborted fetuses, thus the religious exemption.

05 September 2025, 01:00

Mike Mitchell

quote:
Originally posted by crbutler:
That’s the law… but how did those kids get in that you are minimizing?

When I had a pediatric population, the vast majority were not up to date.

Admittedly most had “some” vaccines, but were not complete, and did not return for completion of the shots.

Many use a “religious exemption” which isn’t really religious… they just don’t want their kid to do it, but no one can prove the religious aspect of this.

Also there are a bunch of kids whose parents claim a reaction to the vaccines and insist that their kid be exempted (a common one is “my kid got a fever and seizures from the vaccine!”) and the reaction is absolutely unverifiable (although in my mind, a kid having a seizure most all parents would take them to the ER, but these folks usually say that the kid was fine later, so they didn’t.). Vaccine reaction is considered a legally exempting reason.

All that these states are doing is saying that a form was presented.

It comes down to personal responsibility. Do you do what is best for the child or do you find a way around it?

The making parents lie to get their way is not socially good.

I’d rather have the parent say “no” and take responsibility than have to have a bogus false medical record made, and then when something bad happens, you know where it came from.

By the way, in many states chiropractors can fill out forms like these… but they cannot give vaccines…. What does that say?

I'm not minimizing anybody and I assume the 6% that aren't vaccinated got exemptions based on religion or whatever.

Those statistics come from the Texas Department of Health and Human Services. I don't think they make that kind of stuff up.

I can't speak to chiropractors being allowed to sign vaccination records. Frankly, I don't believe that, it makes zero sense. But, in any event, only and MD or a DO can sign one in Texas. And, if you don't have one, your kid doesn't go to school. They will let you in conditionally but you have to get vaccinated within 30 days or out you go.

05 September 2025, 01:18

MJines

Sort of convoluted and tortured logic in my opinion . . . because folks are loopholing the system, it’s okay to abandon the system. If the system has a good scientific and medical basis, why not double down on the system instead of abandoning it. If a bunch of folks decided to speed in a school zone, we don’t say, well since a lot of folks speed let’s get rid of the speed limit, we enforce the speed limit. Someone doesn’t want to vaccinate their child, fine, send them to a private school of anti-vaxxers or home school.

05 September 2025, 02:13

crbutler

Nope.

We should either put some teeth in the system, or abandon it.

Get rid of the exemptions. Make proof of vaccination public record and mandatory if that is how you want to do it.

Doing what we are is not working all that well- more breakthrough infections, more resistant patterns, and also more rather poorly vetted vaccines. (See the original rotovirus one, the current lack of transparency with the research, etc.).

In general, health care is a choice to the patient. We don’t make you take your medicine or see the doctor.

Again, giving the unvaccinated higher insurance premiums and copays would fix most of this-

Folks are finding ways around it to enable personal choice. Fine, let them make the choice and live with the consequences.

quote:
Originally posted by MJines:
Sort of convoluted and tortured logic in my opinion . . . because folks are loopholing the system, it’s okay to abandon the system. If the system has a good scientific and medical basis, why not double down on the system instead of abandoning it. If a bunch of folks decided to speed in a school zone, we don’t say, well since a lot of folks speed let’s get rid of the speed limit, we enforce the speed limit. Someone doesn’t want to vaccinate their child, fine, send them to a private school of anti-vaxxers or home school.

05 September 2025, 06:53

theback40

Is the scientology people anti-vax? How many people belong to such groups?

05 September 2025, 06:59

Saeed

So many reports on the Internet of some deranged idiots kids are dead because they felt that doing nothing to treat them better!

05 September 2025, 17:37

Steve Bertram

quote:
Originally posted by theback40:
Is the scientology people anti-vax? How many people belong to such groups?

I don't know about Scientologists but Jehovah's Witness's do not believe in vaccinations, Amish as well.

05 September 2025, 20:11

jeffeosso

quote:
Originally posted by Steve Bertram:
quote:
Originally posted by theback40:
Is the scientology people anti-vax? How many people belong to such groups?

I don't know about Scientologists but Jehovah's Witness's do not believe in vaccinations, Amish as well.

As well as Christian scientists

05 September 2025, 21:16

Bill Leeper

quote:
Originally posted by MJines:
The tyranny of the minority. Now we let one kid with kook parents jeopardize the health of 29 of his/her classmates because some MAGA nut case wants to pander to the right fringe. Screw the right fringe. Put all the non-vaccinated kids in the same class and let them infect each other.

I am not a highly educated man. In fact, most of my education has been of the most informal sort. It must be this lack of education which makes it so difficult for me to understand: If all of the kids in a classroom are vaccinated, and if this vaccine is effective, how is it that one unvaccinated kid puts them at risk? It would seem, to this educationally challenged old man, that the only one at risk is the unvaxxed kid in the roomful of asymptomatic carriers.
We saw the same sort of illogic imposed with regards to the covid vaccines. Somehow it turned healthy unvaxxed people into deadly carriers, while the vaccinated people, even when Fauci was touting 95% efficacy, were suddenly at serious risk of deadly infection.
People should be able to make informed decisions regarding their healthcare. Administrators should be able to make informed rules regarding student's safety. The current climate of kneejerk hysteria stems from the opposite of being informed. Regards, Bill

05 September 2025, 21:53

LHeym500

It is when a whole bunch are unvaxed, one kids gets x, and it runs like fire.

05 September 2025, 22:45

jeffeosso

quote:
Originally posted by Bill Leeper:
quote:
Originally posted by MJines:
The tyranny of the minority. Now we let one kid with kook parents jeopardize the health of 29 of his/her classmates because some MAGA nut case wants to pander to the right fringe. Screw the right fringe. Put all the non-vaccinated kids in the same class and let them infect each other.

I am not a highly educated man. In fact, most of my education has been of the most informal sort. It must be this lack of education which makes it so difficult for me to understand: If all of the kids in a classroom are vaccinated, and if this vaccine is effective, how is it that one unvaccinated kid puts them at risk? It would seem, to this educationally challenged old man, that the only one at risk is the unvaxxed kid in the roomful of asymptomatic carriers.
We saw the same sort of illogic imposed with regards to the covid vaccines. Somehow it turned healthy unvaxxed people into deadly carriers, while the vaccinated people, even when Fauci was touting 95% efficacy, were suddenly at serious risk of deadly infection.
People should be able to make informed decisions regarding their healthcare. Administrators should be able to make informed rules regarding student's safety. The current climate of kneejerk hysteria stems from the opposite of being informed. Regards, Bill

An actual vaccine works like that, bill. 30 kids in a class, 29 maxed, 1 not and that one gets thing (chickenpox) the others wont.

05 September 2025, 23:05

Thomas "Ty" Beaham

quote:
Originally posted by Bill Leeper:
quote:
Originally posted by MJines:
The tyranny of the minority. Now we let one kid with kook parents jeopardize the health of 29 of his/her classmates because some MAGA nut case wants to pander to the right fringe. Screw the right fringe. Put all the non-vaccinated kids in the same class and let them infect each other.

I am not a highly educated man. In fact, most of my education has been of the most informal sort. It must be this lack of education which makes it so difficult for me to understand: If all of the kids in a classroom are vaccinated, and if this vaccine is effective, how is it that one unvaccinated kid puts them at risk? It would seem, to this educationally challenged old man, that the only one at risk is the unvaxxed kid in the roomful of asymptomatic carriers.
We saw the same sort of illogic imposed with regards to the covid vaccines. Somehow it turned healthy unvaxxed people into deadly carriers, while the vaccinated people, even when Fauci was touting 95% efficacy, were suddenly at serious risk of deadly infection.
People should be able to make informed decisions regarding their healthcare. Administrators should be able to make informed rules regarding student's safety. The current climate of kneejerk hysteria stems from the opposite of being informed. Regards, Bill

In this example Bill, I feel it's clear.

For some, it's about control issues, power-trips, and Ultimate Nannys.

I know best, do what I say or off to the Gulag, errr... "home schoolin' "

It's one of the trappings of free speech, open dissent & dialog.

Some just can't resist the temptation to flex on the children of parents holding differing opinions.

.