Should we cut Ukraine loose or help them resist?

25 February 2025, 07:20

Mike Mitchell

quote:
Originally posted by RolandtheHeadless:
I agree, and that used to be US policy.

Hard to believe anybody could think different. They want to fight him. Give them what they need. Fuck trump calling putin on the phone and sucking his dick.

We're going to sell Ukraine out now because trump loves putin?

25 February 2025, 07:27

Jefffive

If we aren't going to provide them with the conventional weapons they need to defend themselves we should restore, as exactly as possible, the nuclear arsenal they surrendered in good faith.

25 February 2025, 07:27

Jayhawker2022

We should arm them to the teeth and get our “Allie’s” to do the same.

Any amount of treasure spent us ok with me but not one service members life.

My concern is that if Putin retakes Ukraine, he might turn his gaze westward toward Poland.

That would be no bueno for all of Europe.

Trumps apparent stance on Ukraine is one place I differ with him.

25 February 2025, 07:34

Mike Mitchell

quote:
Originally posted by Jayhawker2022:
We should arm them to the teeth and get our “Allie’s” to do the same.

Any amount of treasure spent us ok with me but not one service members life.

My concern is that if Putin retakes Ukraine, he might turn his gaze westward toward Poland.

That would be no bueno for all of Europe.

Trumps apparent stance on Ukraine is one place I differ with him.

I agree. Getting our allies to agree, I dunno. Euro allies might not represent our best interests.

25 February 2025, 07:39

Jayhawker2022

With Tue exception of the UK I agree.

Inwoukd love to see a chart of what country has given how. I h money and how I h equipment.

25 February 2025, 08:05

medved

quote:
Originally posted by Jayhawker2022:
We should arm them to the teeth and get our “Allie’s” to do the same.

Any amount of treasure spent us ok with me but not one service members life.

My concern is that if Putin retakes Ukraine, he might turn his gaze westward toward Poland.

That would be no bueno for all of Europe.

Trumps apparent stance on Ukraine is one place I differ with him.

re-read and re-listen the speech of putin on the day before he launched the war to main ukraine. if it was only poland, he will take back all the countries that belong to USSR in the past and he make no mysteries about it and of course will help all the allies or not lol

soon you will discover more than you disagree with your supreme leader. it will hard to swallow and admit in front of all your friends over here ...

25 February 2025, 08:18

Jayhawker2022

At least our leader isn’t Tue bastard so w if Castro.

So we got that going for us.

25 February 2025, 08:47

Scott King

You don't quit an ally mid fight.

We don't quit Israel mid fight and we don't quit Ukraine mid fight.

If we want to re consider our support in the peace that's fine, but pulling the rug out from under their feet in round six of a fifteen round bout is bad form.

25 February 2025, 08:48

medved

quote:
Originally posted by Jayhawker2022:
At least our leader isn’t Tue bastard so w if Castro.

So we got that going for us.

our one is not good but so far did not support putin ... in the western world as of today everybody is laughing at usa not canada lol

25 February 2025, 08:48

crbutler

I'm all for trying to convince Putin to leave Ukraine, and if not, giving Ukraine arms and training (NOT money) and making sure its going where we are trying to get it... in particular that some corrupt Ukranian general isn't padding his swiss account by selling examples to China.

The missing $100B bothers me.

And I don't really care about what Trump thinks of me.

25 February 2025, 08:59

MJines

quote:
Originally posted by Scott King:
You don't quit an ally mid fight.

We don't quit Israel mid fight and we don't quit Ukraine mid fight.

If we want to re consider our support in the peace that's fine, but pulling the rug out from under their feet in round six of a fifteen round bout is bad form.

+1, and sends a message to all other countries (friend and foe) that you cannot be depended upon as a ally.

25 February 2025, 12:59

Saeed

quote:
Originally posted by Scott King:
You don't quit an ally mid fight.

We don't quit Israel mid fight and we don't quit Ukraine mid fight.

If we want to re consider our support in the peace that's fine, but pulling the rug out from under their feet in round six of a fifteen round bout is bad form.

Difference is Israel OWNS you!

25 February 2025, 13:37

ledvm

quote:
Originally posted by crbutler:
I'm all for trying to convince Putin to leave Ukraine, and if not, giving Ukraine arms and training (NOT money) and making sure its going where we are trying to get it... in particular that some corrupt Ukranian general isn't padding his swiss account by selling examples to China.

The missing $100B bothers me.

And I don't really care about what Trump thinks of me.

I will add a +1 to this post.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
J. Lane Easter, DVM

A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House

No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991.

25 February 2025, 14:46

nute

Poland is well on the way to becoming the preeminent military power in Europe. Give them another 4-5 years and the military completion of Europe will look very different.

Most of the ex soviet block republics (except Hungry)are very anti Russian, and whilst the headline numbers might not seem impressive for the value of support given to Ukraine, in terms of their GDP the proportions is significantly above the support provided by the US or some other Western European countries. They are very aware of who their neighbour is and are motivated to remain free.

Consider also that the countries which make up the EU each have a mutual defence obligation to each other, a bit like article 5/6 of NATO.

25 February 2025, 16:13

HerrBerg

quote:
Originally posted by MJines:
+1, and sends a message to all other countries (friend and foe) that you cannot be depended upon as a ally.

Oh, your allies take notes. And your enemies.

25 February 2025, 16:21

tomahawker

Definitely give them a couple or at least one of those trees that grow money.

25 February 2025, 16:25

Steve Bertram

quote:
Originally posted by tomahawker:
Definitely give them a couple or at least one of those trees that grow money.

Right after we give one to Israel, the single largest recipient of US foreign aid.

25 February 2025, 16:27

tomahawker

Aw shucks, one for everybody.

25 February 2025, 16:28

Steve Bertram

quote:
Originally posted by tomahawker:
Aw shucks, one for everybody.

I certainly would not want to leave out our farmers who are exploiting the ethanol program.

Wasted Federal funds are a terrible thing, unless they happen to be flowing to your bank account.

25 February 2025, 16:50

JTEX

quote:
Originally posted by crbutler:
I'm all for trying to convince Putin to leave Ukraine, and if not, giving Ukraine arms and training (NOT money) and making sure its going where we are trying to get it... in particular that some corrupt Ukranian general isn't padding his swiss account by selling examples to China.

The missing $100B bothers me.

And I don't really care about what Trump thinks of me.

Yes Sir!

Full accountability.

25 February 2025, 22:07

medved

quote:
Originally posted by nute:
Poland is well on the way to becoming the preeminent military power in Europe. Give them another 4-5 years and the military completion of Europe will look very different.

Most of the ex soviet block republics (except Hungry)are very anti Russian, and whilst the headline numbers might not seem impressive for the value of support given to Ukraine, in terms of their GDP the proportions is significantly above the support provided by the US or some other Western European countries. They are very aware of who their neighbour is and are motivated to remain free.

Consider also that the countries which make up the EU each have a mutual defence obligation to each other, a bit like article 5/6 of NATO.

hungary did not recall 1956 but all the others eastern block countries still ... up to the time hungary will cry and no one will come for them ...

25 February 2025, 22:43

Steve Ahrenberg

quote:
Originally posted by crbutler:
I'm all for trying to convince Putin to leave Ukraine, and if not, giving Ukraine arms and training (NOT money) and making sure its going where we are trying to get it... in particular that some corrupt Ukranian general isn't padding his swiss account by selling examples to China.

The missing $100B bothers me.

And I don't really care about what Trump thinks of me.

Giving Ukraine what they need to win, will start a battlefield nuclear conflict.

25 February 2025, 22:49

ANTELOPEDUNDEE

quote:
Originally posted by Steve Ahrenberg:
quote:
Originally posted by crbutler:
I'm all for trying to convince Putin to leave Ukraine, and if not, giving Ukraine arms and training (NOT money) and making sure its going where we are trying to get it... in particular that some corrupt Ukranian general isn't padding his swiss account by selling examples to China.

The missing $100B bothers me.

And I don't really care about what Trump thinks of me.

Giving Ukraine what they need to win, will start a battlefield nuclear conflict.

That's why [contrary to what Lane says] the Russian army's strength is no biggie. Nukes will fly.

25 February 2025, 23:09

Navaluk

I wish the US had made a decision to have Ukraine actually win rather than just give them enough to exist and kill as many russians and ukrainians as possible. I think they did a cruel thing by choosing what they did. Fear of winning is a real thing. All those dead taught us that Russia is just a paper tiger with nukes that may or may not work.

25 February 2025, 23:15

shankspony

A very relevant speech from Norway.

https://x.com/ladyjaujau/status/1894149861680796142

25 February 2025, 23:18

Steve Bertram

quote:
Originally posted by Steve Ahrenberg:
quote:
Originally posted by crbutler:
I'm all for trying to convince Putin to leave Ukraine, and if not, giving Ukraine arms and training (NOT money) and making sure its going where we are trying to get it... in particular that some corrupt Ukranian general isn't padding his swiss account by selling examples to China.

The missing $100B bothers me.

And I don't really care about what Trump thinks of me.

Giving Ukraine what they need to win, will start a battlefield nuclear conflict.

I'm not so sure that allowing anyone armed with nukes to take over whatever the hell they feel like won't lead to nuclear conflict. Appeasement of nutters with imperialistic ambitions has not proved to be a winning strategy in the past, I don't think it will be going forward.

There is no excuse for Trump's betrayal of our allies, no matter how hard that you try to provide him one Steve.

25 February 2025, 23:29

shankspony

Yep. Just look at what Russia is prepared to do with its own people, and the North Koreans in the meatwaves.
Imagine what it would try with a conquered Ukrainian population.
Each capitulation will make stopping them more necessary, and more difficult. Always will be the Nuke question.

25 February 2025, 23:48

Steve Ahrenberg

quote:
Originally posted by Steve Bertram:
quote:
Originally posted by Steve Ahrenberg:
quote:
Originally posted by crbutler:
I'm all for trying to convince Putin to leave Ukraine, and if not, giving Ukraine arms and training (NOT money) and making sure its going where we are trying to get it... in particular that some corrupt Ukranian general isn't padding his swiss account by selling examples to China.

The missing $100B bothers me.

And I don't really care about what Trump thinks of me.

Giving Ukraine what they need to win, will start a battlefield nuclear conflict.

I'm not so sure that allowing anyone armed with nukes to take over whatever the hell they feel like won't lead to nuclear conflict. Appeasement of nutters with imperialistic ambitions has not proved to be a winning strategy in the past, I don't think it will be going forward.

There is no excuse for Trump's betrayal of our allies, no matter how hard that you try to provide him one Steve.

...Like Iran?

25 February 2025, 23:55

Steve Bertram

quote:
Originally posted by Steve Ahrenberg:
quote:
Originally posted by Steve Bertram:
quote:
Originally posted by Steve Ahrenberg:
quote:
Originally posted by crbutler:
I'm all for trying to convince Putin to leave Ukraine, and if not, giving Ukraine arms and training (NOT money) and making sure its going where we are trying to get it... in particular that some corrupt Ukranian general isn't padding his swiss account by selling examples to China.

The missing $100B bothers me.

And I don't really care about what Trump thinks of me.

Giving Ukraine what they need to win, will start a battlefield nuclear conflict.

I'm not so sure that allowing anyone armed with nukes to take over whatever the hell they feel like won't lead to nuclear conflict. Appeasement of nutters with imperialistic ambitions has not proved to be a winning strategy in the past, I don't think it will be going forward.

There is no excuse for Trump's betrayal of our allies, no matter how hard that you try to provide him one Steve.

...Like Iran?

How does the foreign policy related to Iran mitigate capitulation to Russia? It does not.

There is STILL no excuse for Trump siding with Russia and betraying our allies. America will pay for Trump's misdeeds for generations to come.

25 February 2025, 23:57

Tumbleweed

quote:
Originally posted by shankspony:
A very relevant speech from Norway.

https://x.com/ladyjaujau/status/1894149861680796142

I don’t know if our American contingent would listen to it, but that’s one helluva speech. The U.S. voluntarily putting themselves outside of the western community and adhering to Vladimir Putin is mind boggling.

26 February 2025, 01:06

Jayhawker2022

Looks like the Ukes have agreed to the mineral deal.

26 February 2025, 01:50

shankspony

Got a link Jay? I can't find any info.

26 February 2025, 01:56

jeffeosso

quote:
Originally posted by shankspony:
Got a link Jay? I can't find any info.

https://www.reuters.com/world/...rces-say-2025-02-25/

Took a minute to find one not behind a paywall

26 February 2025, 02:11

shankspony

Cheers!

I wonder if this is why Putin has suddenly offered Russian minerals too the US?

26 February 2025, 02:34

Jayhawker2022

Thanks for posting the link. I couldn’t find one that wasn’t behind a pay wall

26 February 2025, 03:34

shankspony

Info coming through now.

Its a big change in tone.
https://x.com/visegrad24/status/1894516599828214244

26 February 2025, 03:39

Jayhawker2022

Freedom isn’t free.

All thy stuff we are supporting you with has to be paid for.

I really want to see Elon and his Wiz Kids turned loose on the Ukrainian money.

How much went to zelinsky Swiss Bank account. How much went to ogliarchs? How much went to the Biden crime syndicate?