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One of Us |
NBA legend Bill Walton co-authors op-ed on plan to relocate San Diego's homeless population While I would have to see the specifics and a strict budgetary accounting would be paramount…I could get behind such a proposal. The Cities need to return to a civil state of existence. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J. Lane Easter, DVM A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991. | ||
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| One of Us |
It's a terrible problem. My office is very near the High Five in Dallas and the homeless gather and live under the overpasses. Trash, tents, all kinds of debris and there is a panhandler on all sides of every intersection. I had one crazy-looking character yelling at me through my rolled-up driver's side window a while back and when I told him to step away from the vehicle, he spit on the window several times. What is interesting about it is that there is an old Motel 6 not 50 yards from our intersection where one of the local charities started a homeless shelter a year or so ago. Free meals, free room, but no drugs or alcohol so the crazies still roam the area. All that said, I don't think forcibly rounding them up and shipping them off to some location of our choice is the solution to the problem. In fact, that sounds pretty diabolical. -Every damn thing is your own fault if you are any good. | |||
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| One of Us |
I'm 100% for opening and funding inpatient mental health facilities as well as rounding up the crazies and forcing them to go there, they are a huge portion of the homeless. Far too much of our law enforcement resources go to the mentally ill. We need to do something to restore order to our cities, Walton's idea is worthy of consideration. | |||
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| One of Us |
So, lock them up? The cops can't just pick people up off the street and force them to undergo a mental health evaluation in order to determine if maybe they should be involuntarily committed to a mental health facility. That's not the way things work. -Every damn thing is your own fault if you are any good. | |||
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| One of Us |
How about having them evaluated when they interact with the police, which they do regularly? Having the nutters running the streets is in no way better than them being confined to inpatient facilities, for them or for the general public. When they are not able to look after themselves and are a constant source of problems for the police, I'm 100% behind sending them for inpatient treatment. They sure are not getting the help they need by living under a bridge. | |||
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| One of Us |
I think the thing is that most of them don't want help. And, I tell you, they are everywhere around our building and I rarely see the police interacting with them. Of course, it's Dallas so you rarely see the police anywhere. -Every damn thing is your own fault if you are any good. | |||
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| Administrator |
I thought the best way was to give them purpose in life! | |||
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| One of Us |
That is the issue. If they can't take care of themselves and the police are becoming involved regularly(a huge waste of resources locally) then I think we should force them into institutions. Here the city police and Sheriff comment often about the time and resources that are consumed by the mentally ill. | |||
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| One of Us |
That sounds like just a shifting of the costs. Also, I'd be willing to bet that institutionalizing them would be a lot more expensive than occasional law enforcement interaction. -Every damn thing is your own fault if you are any good. | |||
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| One of Us |
It might be but I would be willing to pay a few more bucks in taxes to get these people the help they need and restore order to our cities. | |||
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One of Us |
Any productive solution starts with an overwhelming consensus that “what we are currently doing is not only not working but contributing to the problem.” | |||
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| One of Us |
I would let them have all the dope and alcohol they needed to stay content. I would have candy bins full of confiscated fentanyl (some what tongue in cheek but not my first comment). ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J. Lane Easter, DVM A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991. | |||
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One of Us |
I caught part of a report where a city, I think it was Portland(?), has spent two million in taxpayer's money to buy tents and tarps to pass out to the homeless so they could live where they want. ~Ann   | |||
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| one of us |
Psrtly done already, at Slab City. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slab_City,_California It's not clear to me that they would be welcomed... TomP Our country, right or wrong. When right, to be kept right, when wrong to be put right. Carl Schurz (1829 - 1906) | |||
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| one of us |
The problems with the homeless, like most of the problems faced by the world today, have been at least seventy years in the making. In most cases, they are the direct result of simplistic thinking and shortcuts to mollify some political group. Chances are, we would save money and cure a host of problems by investing in other countries in a way which would create better living conditions for people there. Likewise, we would save money and help a lot of people by investing in housing and employment for those who are currently unemployed and unhoused. We have spent 70 years building infrastructure which is based on the availability of cheap fossil fuels and the facilitation of inefficient transportation. We have spent seventy years marginalizing a large segment of the population. We have accepted that the only way to grow an economy is to grow the population and deflate the value of currency. We have made no real effort to address drug smuggling or distribution, unless we have been wanting to increase drug use. We've been very successful in that. If we, as a society, truly want to try and fix things, everyone will have to sacrifice to some extent. For a change, it can't just be the working class. We have politicians who pay lip service to fiscal responsibility while they run up more debt. We have politicians who pay lip service to social responsibility when all they really mean is to throw money at perceived issues. Personally, I think we are fucked. Regards, Bill | |||
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| One of Us |
I think SKB is closer to the solution than you are....as usual. The first step to trying to solve the problem is providing a place for the homeless to live. Having a safe clean place with a bed, a bathroom, a place to wash clothes and some meals would probably be a good start for all of these folks to at least try to re-enter society and get back on their feet. I don't think passing out tents or tarps helps...probably just exacerbates the problem by enabling them to stay outside. We're in the middle of an ice storm in Dallas and I can't help but think about what those poor folks living in tents and boxes are doing right now. 28 degrees, sleeting and raining with two more days of it coming. -Every damn thing is your own fault if you are any good. | |||
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| One of Us |
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J. Lane Easter, DVM A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991. | |||
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| One of Us |
If you read Bill Walton’s plan…it is not bad. Like I said…I could get behind it…with some caveats. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J. Lane Easter, DVM A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991. | |||
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| One of Us |
Most of those people do not want to work or re-enter society. Many, as we know, are mentally ill. They do not want medication to improve their lives. A very large contingent are drug users and that is all they want to do. Giving them a bed and meals will not work. They themselves will not keep it clean. That burdens society even more, to not only house and feed but to clean up after them. I also think setting aside vast wilderness areas to let them 'live' as they like will not work either. They want to be in the streets. You won't stop their drug use or the supply of drugs they get. There is zero incentive to get any of them to 'improve' so they will not. Might as well keep passing out tents and tarps and just learn to live with them, their excretions and trash on your doorsteps. Many more will join this contingent. The millions of destitute illegals being let into the country will also join them but I picture them setting up in your suburbia because many will hire them since they do want to work. They will want to live close to their work so suburbia will also have to live with tent cities, excretions and crime. Very soon I think. Our society is failing. ~Ann | |||
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| One of Us |
I prefer to move them, forcibly if necessary, away from general society. Camps (can be hard buildings) seem the only option. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J. Lane Easter, DVM A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991. | |||
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| One of Us |
Wow. You want to forcibly move a segment of society that you deem unacceptable to "camps"? -Every damn thing is your own fault if you are any good. | |||
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| One of Us |
The research on the root causes of homelessness vary. Lack of affordable housing, loss of a job and purely economic reasons are inarguably a big part of the problem. Some studies indicate much bigger than drugs and alcohol. You can spend all the time you want blaming these folks for their own misery (and in lots of cases that blame is well-deserved) but that doesn't provide a basis for solving the problem. And, our society isn't failing. It's just got problems like every other society in the history of the world. -Every damn thing is your own fault if you are any good. | |||
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| One of Us |
I disagree with you. Clearly communities have spent umpteen taxpayer dollars over many years trying to 'rehab' people with next to nothing for results. Cities have also found out it is much cheaper (and easier) to pass out tents and tarps and let them live on your doorsteps and city parks than build low income housing. ~Ann | |||
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| One of Us |
You kind of hit the point earlier Mike. Offering them clean beds, meals, etc. has been tried- but if you don’t allow drugs/alcohol, they don’t want to stay there. If you don’t police the drug use, they destroy the place for sale of fittings and they end up committing violence against their peer group. If they don’t want help, what do you do? The functional addicts don’t end up on the street and interacting with LEO’s but they do eventually tend to become non functioning. Our choices are lock up the non functioning addicts or let them do this. If we want to lock them up, are we doing it as a treatment model, or a quarantine? If it’s a quarantine, maybe providing an option to go to treatment if they wish and providing them drugs if they wish (understanding that they will eventually OD, and that is the expected outcome (call it drug use hospice if you want…) may be the more humane option. | |||
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| One of Us |
Most every study on long term homelessness is mental health/addiction. The majority of short term is economic. | |||
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| One of Us |
On this I agree with both of you, some of that money spent on protecting others borders, the mating habits of purple fruit fly and subsidies for ineffective green power could pay,for,it....no need for more taxes! They are human beings and American citizens. | |||
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| One of Us |
Yeah…100% They used to be arrested for vagrancy and also institutionalized. They don’t have the right to “camp” on public property. I am not advocating detaining them in camps…just removing them to there and not allowing them to violate public property. They can leave…just not go back into cities and camp. Let them have their drugs, alcohol, and make it nice enough they prefer to camp their. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J. Lane Easter, DVM A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991. | |||
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| One of Us |
This ^^^ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J. Lane Easter, DVM A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991. | |||
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| One of Us |
Perhaps reach out to the ranks and see if they have family they might rejoin. They may have been lost for a period and not know how to find their way home. Might be someone that cares for them and willing to take them in | |||
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| One of Us |
Most homeless drug using/alcoholics have burned all their bridges with their families. While some families might be willing to help if they clean up, most want to see a significant step by the person themselves. Addiction is a tough disease made worse by the patient often not wanting to stop. We closed the big state run institutions both to save money and because some thought them too inhumane. Seeing how the homeless live, that’s less humane in my book, but morality is in the eyes of the beholder now. | |||
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| One of Us |
Camps or institutions are the only possibilities I see for cleaning up cities. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J. Lane Easter, DVM A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991. | |||
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| One of Us |
I don't disagree with the camps myself. It would be safer and cleaner, not to mention better for the environment. I see the mess in Houston, the trash and the mess. Right outside of the baseball park giving fans a hard time and panhandling on the corners...tents and trash. | |||
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One of Us |
Certainly the possible optics of Camps are terrible, but I was thinking that's some kind of a solution. I was thinking maybe involuntary interment would be too much, but maybe if found camping on the street an overnight stay in "housing" would be forced, sort of like a drunk tank but not jail. Free to leave in the morning, but if you try to set up a nest on the sidewalk, back you go to "housing". We're heading for a scene from Road Warrior otherwise. | |||
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| One of Us |
apparently there is about 5 million homes with no people in them down in central America at the moment. the solution sounds simple to me. | |||
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| One of Us |
Actually they Can. Every state has a Mental/Forced Hospitalization Petition Process. Here local law enforcement can sign those petitions. The problem is the state hospital and adult guardianship will make every excuse to bounce them back in the street. I have seen the State Hospital system release folks on the road in Louisville from my area wo any contacts. This person had a Documented IQ of 58 by multiple sources over decades. | |||
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| One of Us |
Are we going to force the mentally-ill homeless to take medicines doctors prescribe? Shall we force feed it to them? Keep in mind that psychiatric medicines can be quite powerful and cause unpleasant side effects in some people. | |||
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| One of Us |
Good Questions Rolland. I will posit that such a scenario is better than what we have now. KY allows such as you describe for criminal defendants who do not have capacity in order to attempt to restore capacity for trial. I see this as no worse, and setting a person with an UQ of 58 on the street in Louisville 300 miles from family with now services to be much worse. | |||
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| One of Us |
This^^^ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J. Lane Easter, DVM A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991. | |||
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| One of Us |
Most states have provisions to force medications (I'd say all but I am not familiar with every one.), but they do have quite a bit of due process and legal system involvement to do so. In MN, you have a court commitment to force someone in a hospital or treatment (there are several types) and then there is a forced neuroleptic order (called a Jarvis petition in MN) in addition to just an old fashioned court order. The commitment orders (depending on type) do need to be reviewed periodically, as does the forced medication order.
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| One of Us |
Some terrible optics. I feel pretty certain nobody here and likely most Americans don't want to "force" their fellow Americans to do anything. Roland, you and most of our friends here are familiar with our homeless neighbors on an individual basis, we recognize faces, we see likenesses with friends, we know them familialy sometimes. I have a brother who has a brother in law who lives on the streets of Oakland CA, ear Lake Merritt. He is a father, a son, an uncle. Horrifying. Nobody wants to force him to do anything, but for his and everyone else's sake this brother/ brother in law/ son/ uncle and father is needed to get his shit together. "Forced?" I am hypothetically forced to care for and give to his mother, child, sister. I'm happy to, my brother can get fucked. We're going to have to get back to expecting some kind of standard from our fellow Americans. | |||
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